I have always liked the looks of the Winchester 21 and understand it’s hell for stout, but how does a splinter forend double trigger field grade handle? I have always shot Belguim, German , lefever and Lc smith guns and they have been close to the same handling( pretty svelte even 7.75 30 inchers).
What do you guys think about the 21?
I am a shooter not a collector.
I have a 21 with straight stock, splinter forend and double triggers in 12 ga. with 28" barrels. It weights a couple of ounces over 7#. The American walnut stock has been hollowed out as much as prudent and it wears a Winchester red butt pad.
It's butt heavy. It could use a bit heavier set of barrels or a lighter butt stock.
It's light for a M21 12 ga. Perhaps a more typical 12 ga will have the balance point forward.
It’s all a matter of one’s perspective. I want to love one and have owned 3 16 ga guns. They all went down the road, because I don’t feel nostalgia holding one - I feel like I am holding a Ruger Red label or a Citori.
You’ve already said Lefever, and I haven’t met a 21 that I enjoy anywhere near as much as a Lefever or something like this Wilkes Barre Gun Co.:
I own a pair, Mid 30's, 20 and 16, 28" Full/Mod and 28" Mod/Cyl
I love them, the lightest and liveliest of all my 21's.
If you run excel, I'll send you my handling spreadsheet for M-21's. If you don't do excel, email me a snail mail address and I'll send you a hard copy.
As a sample, my M21 skeet handles as follows: 8# 1 oz, Balance @ 3 1/4" in front of the single trigger, unmounted swing effort = 1.85, mounted swing effort = 8.23, half weight radius = 10.32, 15 3/4" LOP replacement stock, 26" bbls. That says it is heavy, rearward balanced, and has swing efforts like a typical pigeon gun. The HWR says it is compact (much of the weight near the center.
Is that useful to you?
DDA
Isn't the Model 21 the shotgun that Colonel Charles Askins proclaimed to be the shotgun to top all shotguns? I have seen and handled a few, never owned one, but I have a 20 gauge Model 23 that I think looks better and handles better than 21's of the same gauge and configuration handle. Heh! Opinions. Everybody generally has one and that is just mine.
The good Major's idiot kid also wrote an article titled "Junk Those Doubles" wherein he extolled the virtues of the over/under.
When the Model 23 Classic came out in 1986, I jumped on the .410-bore and 28-gauge, but never got the 20- and 12-gauges as I found the 20-gauge to be one of the klunkiest doubles I ever handled.
I'm in the process of doing a model-21 20ga 28" DT custom upgrade. The gun handled well when it was in the original configuration with the early POW grip & the splinter forearm. It's an extractor gun & weighed 6lb 8oz.
I'm converting it to a flat side, straight grip with a small custom profiled beavertail forearm. After all the metal work was done and the wood finished the gun weighs 6lb 4oz before engraving & bluing.
I would trade any Lefever I own ((Except one) for a good model 21 of almost any configuration. The reason; I could sell that over-rated, over-priced piece of junk for enough to buy me 2-3 Really Nice Lefevers of a higher grade than most of mine. The one I would not trade is an FE grade & was my very first Lefever, first gun, period I bought after the Infamous 1968 Gun-Control act & ad to fill out a form 4473 on, as I bought it through a dealer who had it on consignment.
It stays until my toes turn up, but it quite nicely killed any desire I may have ever had for a 21.
You see Browning BSS, LC Smith and Winchester Model 21’s as the true ‘tournament ‘ guns at the SxS shoots, at least that’s what I saw at the one biggie I went to. There’s other guns too, but those guns were what the guys who were there to win were shooting. First one I went to I thought it was for vintage guns and took a 100 yr old + Lancaster wrist breaker. Wrongo....tough competing with tricked out 32” vent rib 21’s and tricked out BSS guns made for tournament shooting. In my humble opinion, Model 21 Winchester shotguns are excellent guns.
Thanks for the replies. Truth is I would only be interested in a 16 gauge light weight model 21 and the prices have kept me buying the other guns I have mentioned. I keep finding nice Belgium and German guns at reasonable prices.
The Lefevers in 16ga are really hard to find on a plumbers budget.
Oh and I think that Wilkes Barr gun is beautiful, great find!
Thanks again
Although I don't envision me buying one, the double-triggered 16 ga. 28" barreled M21 has the most appealing lines to my eyes. Gil
Back to the original post and question. The early double trigger, splinter forend Model 21 is the best of all Model 21 configurations in handling qualities, owing most of that to the weight and the Woodward style prince of wales pistol grip. I have had them all, but prefer the pre war POW style gun above any other for most of my shooting. I have owned a 20 gauge 28" gun in that style that weighed just about six pounds. I have been trying to buy it back for many years, unsuccessfully.
I have been trying to buy it back for many years, unsuccessfully.
Anyone who has been in this game for decades has a similar regret. After a few decades of begging, I successfully got one back. Gil