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Posted By: ithaca1 Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/09/20 09:14 PM
Good afternoon.
I pulled out, and blew the dust off a WC Scott that I purchased about 20 years ago.
I really like the gun, but never shot it but once or twice. While looking it over, I realized that the barrels are marks imp mod right and imp cyl left!! When I initially inspected the gun, It didn't dawn on me that they were backwards!! Sure enough, I measured them and they are indeed as marked!! I assume this gun was set up for driven birds. My initial thought is to reverse the triggers so it is front/open, rear/tight. At lease that way, trigger function would be consistent with my other doubles.

How common was this practice?

Ithaca1
Bill
Could have started out as a lefty gun, with reversed triggers before you got it. Driven birds seems more likely.

Best,
Ted
Posted By: ithaca1 Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/09/20 09:26 PM
Interesting Ted!!
I'll check the triggers tomorrow. They may still be reversed!!

Ithaca1
Posted By: Rocketman Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/09/20 09:47 PM
Common? Say, less than 5%. Does it have a left or right thumb lever break? Any cast in the stock?

DDA
Posted By: LGF Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/09/20 10:17 PM
I have an 1881 12 bore Greener Far Killing Duck gun choked .0445 in the right barrel and .0325 in the left. Triggers are the usual configuration.
Posted By: ithaca1 Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/09/20 10:26 PM
Rocketman,
It is a right thumb lever break.
I'll have the gun in hand tomorrow when I return home.

What I can tell you at this point is that it is a WC Scott built for Orvis in approximately 1978. It has "Orvis Best" engraved on the underside in front of the triggers,

ithaca1
Posted By: HighWall Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/09/20 10:32 PM
LGF I covet your FarKiller.
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/09/20 10:38 PM
Note that most triggers on a double for a right-handed shooter have the trigger faces beveled off to the right. A former co-worker of mine had a field grade Ithaca Flues 20 gauge which his uncle had ordered special as he was left-handed. Everything was identical to a regular right-handed gun except the triggers were beveled to the left.
The late John Olin had all his custom M21's with the right side barrel tighter choked than the left barrel, or so I have read. I am not sure about his Specialty Grade Smith gun, however. RWTF
Posted By: DAM16SXS Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/10/20 12:45 AM
Often with guns choked as yours is they were ordered with waterfowling in mind. Pass-shooting incomers shooting the tighter choke first and the more open choke as they they came closer... this while using the trigger setup that they were most familiar with in their other guns.

I have a 30" 10 gauge Parker choked Full in the right barrel and Light Mod in the left.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/10/20 02:42 AM
I do not have any trouble firing the back trigger first on incoming doves, then immediately going to the front for the closer shot. I only have to think about which one I want to shoot first. Moving from the back trigger to the front, or vise versa, is not an issue, and never requires any conscious thought. I believe anyone can learn to do this with a bit of practice, there's nothing special about me.

Why don't you give it a try before you go swapping triggers around on it? You might be glad you did.

SRH
Posted By: Joe Wood Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/10/20 02:45 AM
Stan, you are absolutely correct. Once I decide which trigger to fire first moving to the other for a second shot is a totally subconscious action.
Posted By: Toby Barclay Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/10/20 10:25 AM
Stan & Joe, I'm with you.
A majority of my shooting is driven and a majority of my guns have traditional light right, tighter left. I find using the back trigger first quite natural but it does mean engaging the brain! On an 'average' bird, I really don't bother but on a high bird I shoot tight first and on a close bird I use the open choke and keep the tight for that (usually unsuccessful!) going away shot behind.
In the UK gun trade we generally call a tight right/light left a 'Grouse Choked' gun in deference to the rule that in shooting driven grouse, the first shot should be well out in front in order to have time to use your 2nd barrel.
I recently acquired a lovely Blanch BA SLE with Kell engraving and 29" Whitworth 'Grouse Choked' barrels. Looking forward to using it next game season on driven partridge and pheasant.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/10/20 12:51 PM
Never heard the term "grouse choked" Toby, but it's interesting that dove shooting can be much the same.

There is no question that my biggest failing in shooting doves is to wait too long to trigger that first incomer. I thought I had taught myself, in Argentina, that an incoming dove can be killed much farther out than usually believed. I was using a 20 ga. with IM and LM chokes, 7/8 oz. of 8s. I just kept pushing what I thought was the outer limits of range on incomers, kept dumping them easily with the IM, and never really found out how far out is too far. But, back home on a shoot, I will invariably wait a second too late and my easy incomer has suddenly become a shot with many magnitudes more difficulty. And, the chance of an easy double has disappeared.

SRH
Posted By: Toby Barclay Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/10/20 08:28 PM
Stan, Yes, hanging on your first shot is a problem that I have tussled with for years. Even when I was professionally coaching and telling my clients to get their first shot off earlier, I still hung on my own shots!
The last two years I have made a conscious effort to get that first barrel off as quick as safety and aim allows and use my tight choke first. The effects have been impressive with my shots to kill ration getting to 3:2 by the end of this season just finished. Furthermore, a vast majority of my birds were killed with that first barrel, very few runners and no smashed birds ('feather pillow jobs' as we call them!). Sadly the opportunities for Right & Left's are rare on my modest shooting days. wink
I live for feather pillow kill shots on barn pigeons and crows--off season shotgunning practice instead of SC-- My favorite 12 bore for that sort of wingshooting is either a Model 12 30" imp. mod. choke (Tournament Grade) with solid rib-field stock dims- no matter what shot size or loads I use it in, it patterns out at 70% in a 30" dia. circle on paper at 35 yards-

I would love to shoot it in the company of your George Digweed, on crows and wood pigeons-- I have seen the videos of him shredding wood pigeons and crows with an O/U that probably cost more than our house did in 1972. Doubt if I'd get an invite for driven pheasants with your upper class gentry, even if I had a matched (or even composed) pair of 12 bores--

Toby, is it now?? My Mick Irish Grandfather had a collection of your porcelain mugs-smuggled out of England during the prohibition era. Was your family involved in that enterprise, perchance. RWTF
Posted By: L. Brown Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/10/20 11:26 PM
Early American skeet sxs often had the R barrel choked tighter than the L, for doubles: "Skeet Out" R, "Skeet In" L. Not likely the case on this gun, however, since it's British.

Driven birds . . . I have an old auction catalog from Christie's, back when they were in the gun business. The catalog features several pairs of guns. Although it seems to be a popular belief that guns were choked tighter R barrel and more open L for driven birds, NONE of the pairs shown in the catalog are choked that way. And British pairs in particular were usually purpose built for driven birds.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/11/20 12:29 AM
Originally Posted By: Toby Barclay
Stan, Yes, hanging on your first shot is a problem that I have tussled with for years. Even when I was professionally coaching and telling my clients to get their first shot off earlier, I still hung on my own shots!
The last two years I have made a conscious effort to get that first barrel off as quick as safety and aim allows and use my tight choke first. The effects have been impressive with my shots to kill ration getting to 3:2 by the end of this season just finished. Furthermore, a vast majority of my birds were killed with that first barrel, very few runners and no smashed birds ('feather pillow jobs' as we call them!). Sadly the opportunities for Right & Left's are rare on my modest shooting days. wink


The frustrating thing is that I know in my mind that I can kill the incomer much farther than I do. The shot is hitting most vulnerable parts of the bird .......... the head, neck, the front portion of the body, and the main wing bones. You know that, Toby, as well as I do. So, why is it so hard to overcome the urge to wait just a second or two longer? In Cordoba I could eventually make myself shoot the first so far out that when I killed the second it fell in front of me. That's a pretty long shot on the first, if you think about it, because the doves are probably cruising at about 50 mph, maybe more, and they fall a good long distance from where they're hit.

It is the biggest quandary I face in wingshooting. If killing a double on incomers wasn't so attractive to me I wouldn't care where the first bird was shot. But, there is nothing as satisfying, in the kinds of wingshooting I have done, as taking a true double on incoming birds and having the second fall in front of you.

SRH
Posted By: Roy Hebbes Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/11/20 12:46 AM
This boring sequence right barrel choked,left barrel open bored is sometimes found on guns made in the UK intended for driven grouse shooting. In driven grouse shooting the the first bird shot at is most distant. The second bird shot at is closer to the gun hence The reverse boring.
The reason for the reversal in boring is thought to be that some sportsmen used to shooting flushed game rising close in, always using guns bored open in the right barrel and choke in the left barrel could not, in the heat of the moment, when grouse shooting, automatically switch their barrel selection. Thus distant birds were missed and close in birds mangled!
Posted By: ithaca1 Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/11/20 01:35 AM
Gun in hand. Triggers are right handed and set up, front/right, back/left. I forgot how nice is handles at 6lbs 4oz. with 28" barrels.

Ithaca1
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/11/20 03:47 AM
Excellent configuration for any incoming birds, Bill. Hope you shoot it "lights out".

SRH
Posted By: ithaca1 Re: Tighter choke in the right barrel - 02/12/20 02:42 AM
Thanks for all the responses!!
Its been interesting and informative.

ithaca1
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