Received a SAC gun yesterday in A-1 Special Trap Grade; the only affordable SAC gun in this grade I've seen for sale in 30 plus years. It's certainly far from new but is complete, has never been altered or monkeyed with, and has the optional Krupp barrels. The receiver is not pitted or rusty, but metal surfaces have turned a dark brown/grey; so my question to the experts here is how can I remove this dark "patina" from metal surfaces and improve the looks of this gun? Thanks in advance for your time. Tom

I always start with an ultrasonic cleaning. Amazing what can be under the crud.

Then go to town with a Big 45 Frontier Cleaner and Kroil or Kleen Bore's Formula 3.

In lieu of an ultrasound, you might consider boiling. Distilled water has some advantages, but whatever, do not allow the hot parts to air dry if possible.

Thanks gentlemen. Although I'd sure like to give this a try, I don't have access to an ultrasonic cleaner; so no go there. I've heard that Kroil might be a good alternative, but have no experience; so how should this stuff be applied? Is it something in which the parts should be soaked; and how should these parts be cleaned afterwards? Also, where is Kroil found (gun shops, automotive shops, hardware stores, etc.)? Thanks again

Yeah right, professor.

SRH

Stop. Do not clean the patina with anything but some 4/0 steel wool and WD-40. See how it looks before you do anything else. Please.
JR

Ultrasonic cleaners don't use ultrasonics (aka ultrasound)? You seem to be having another conniption fit. Again. Sorry to see that. Hope you get over it soon.

Nice try .........professor.

SRH

What this guy said.

Best,
Ted

Keep swinging for the fences Stanley.

It's cute the way you follow me around however. You are kinda like a puppy dog that way...

As many mistakes as you post, nobody has to follow you 'round to see them. They just kinda jump right out.

You seem to understand puppy dog behavior pretty well. jOe speaks, you mimic.

SRH

Wasn't my intention to start a cat fight guys, but in regards to the original question, I'll begin on the safe side as suggested and use oil and steel wool; something with which I do have some experience,and report results afterwards.

I believe this will be a good start.

Best,
Ted

Best of luck with it, Tom. Hope you can post some pics sometime. We don't get to see a lot of those SAC guns down here.

Looks like the rain is about over where you are. We're still in the middle of it tonight, down here.

Best, SRH

That's okay. Stan likes to start this sort of crap if Frank doesn't jump him first. Stan has this "thing" for me. He told how he keeps "files" on me for "future reference". Pretty funny, in a pathetic sort of way.

Be gentle with the steel wool.

I'm still looking for the ultrasonic that doesn't use ultrasound.

Tom
That's a crazy rare gun. I want it!
That's not the one we corresponded about is it?

First do no harm
So, start with a simple washing with detergent and water

Move up to an oil based non polar cleaner maybe paint thinner

If that doesn't remove crud, go the other way to window cleaner
Then maybe an ammonia based cleaner

I'm feeling generous today
I can send you an ultrasonic cleaner for the action.

There's many liquids that work great in them for guns.

A lawnmower and a Corvette both use gasoline. That doesn't make them the same. You know that ultrasound commonly refers to a pre-natal procedure. Playing fast and loose won't fix your mistake.

G' nite, professor freeloader.

SRH

Hey CZ, send an ultrasonic cleaner that'll fit the barrels too.

I'd start with copper or bronze wool, rather than steel wool. Could also use a stainless steel pad. Either way, use plenty of oil to keep surface lubed. Don't use ScothBrite pads or their clones, because they are embedded with diamond powder and will leave permanent fine scratches.

stanley, stanly, stanlie. Get some sleep. You are loosin' it (yeah, I know, but try not to rise to the bait this time). Try.

Meanwhile the mower and the vette both use gas (careful, might be more bait here).

Stan - Thanks and this is indeed a very uncommon SAC model; and assuming I never figure out photo posting here, I'll send them to you direct as soon as they are in my possession (I saw Terry Allen earlier this week and he made some quality photos of the frame engravings). By the way, I need to update my profile as I've not resided in my beloved home state of GA since 2013; my wife and I now live in Anderson, SC. Also, dove shooting was always my passion and an opportunity I've not had in years; so I thoroughly enjoy the tales and photos of your successful shoots. Please keep them coming.

CZ - Not sure I remember exactly which gun; a 20-bore perhaps? But this gun is not that example as it is a 12-bore located on consignment in a FL gun hop. Allow me to describe this gun to you and educate those who may be unfamiliar with the SAC A-1 Special Trap Grade. This grade was first cataloged in 1902, and as the company was out of business in early 1905, among SAC's hammerless guns, it was cataloged for the shortest period of time (2 plus years; the hammer gun had the shortest life span). At $125 suggested retail per copy, the market for such a gun was very limited. Over the course of 30 years research, I've recorded two 20-bores, one 16-bore, and five 12-bores that I can remember (A-1 was the highest grade offering for SAC' 20-bore).
Of those guns one 12-bore sold at auction for $2250 plus premium that featured 27" cut barrels and a cut stock, another 12-bore listed at Ivory beads for $3600 with a spliced stock (I was told it sold at near the asking), and the 16-bore listed on GunsAmerica for $5500 and sold the next day. The 16-bore was by far the finest of the lot condition wise, but had an unsightly piece broken off the barrel lug (it was a 3rd Model with the sliding cocking hook). I was able to afford this gun and paid a fraction of what the above guns sold for. This gun is a 12-bore with 30" Krupp barrels, solid wood, and is absolutely untouched as to after-market repairs and alterations. The gun is tight, and the only mechanical issue I've found with the gun is that the hold-open catch is not working. I'm hoping it's just stuck, as not a gunsmith the last thing I want to do is remove the false plate to access this device; then be unable to reinstall those crazy hammer springs.
Of the few A-1 Grades I've recorded, this example features the most unusual engraving. The catalog depictions and description of this grade show bird scene engravings; two quail on one side, and two snipe or woodcock on the other. This was SAC's lowest grade offering featuring game scenes, and pointing dog scenes were reserved for Grades B, C, and D; BUT this example was special ordered with a pointing dog, a setter, on the left side of the frame. The scene depicts a point on one or two quail under some bush, and a rabbit running away from the crime scene in the foreground; not an uncommon occurrence based on my quail hunting experiences in GA. This scene is also unusual in that the dog points towards the shooter and not towards the muzzles as is typical with SAC pointing dogs. Another unusual feature is that the floor plate is engraved with scroll in a fashion similar to most Grade B guns I've seen, just less coverage; and the gun and maker's name and address, normally engraved on the trigger plate, is finely engraved on both sides of the narrow front portion of the frame. Otherwise it seems to be typical A-1 motif engraving for the most part with two quail on the right frame side and a three bird covey scene in an oval on the guard bow, which is filed in a convex contour identical to the guard bows on B,C, and D Grades. It features modern stock dimensions and the wood is very nicely figured although finishes have turned dark obscuring its figure and color.

As FYI, I asked the original question in the hopes that I could "lighten" the frame a bit to better see the engraving.
Best,
Tom

simichrome is a non abrasive metal polish that will brighten most metals without marking the surface. it was mentioned in a DGJ article several years ago. fellow had upgraded/restored a WR gun and the case colors came back too pronounced to let the engraving show to best advantage. he commented that judicious use of simichrome allowed a very controlled reduction in the colors. simichrome was once available in most motorcycle shops.

Simichrome is found in our local Ace Hardware. BE VERY careful with it as it takes off case colors extremely fast (just a few swipes will do a lot), but as graybeard says, it will do a really nice job of bring the engravings out of the colors.

Tom,you're killing' me.

The gun we talked about was the one at Cowen's auction house w/ the LOM case.27" barrels as I recall.

I prefer the shorebirds engraving on the A-1's.


Getting back to cleaning off oxidized oils,

Try window cleaner first. A little ammonia cleans off lots of grunge.

Don't go scrubbing with abrasives until you've exhausted simple chemical applications.

Acidic compounds will make a mess of it, so No Vinegar!

If you look online, you'll find people cleaning brass in ultrasonic cleaners, testing all kinds of different liquids.
Automatic trans fluid even has it's place.

Spic and Span is great.
Simple Green

But you should be able to dissolve oxidized oils, and the outermost metal oxides chemically before using abrasion.

It's the least invasive way to proceed in my view.

Double tap
Sorry

Not much to report on our most recent dove season. The weather was crazy warm and the dove numbers were way down. The September season was pretty decent, but it went downhill from there. I only killed 73 over the course of all three "seasons".

I'm thankful for that, but it's way off my pace.

Hope y'all are doing well in Anderson. SRH

"The gun we talked about was the one at Cowen's auction house w/ the LOM case.27" barrels as I recall."

CZ - Yes, I do remember that gun! I don't remember you telling me you were bidding; but I do remember telling you that I knew a collector in AL that would be, then learned later that he had been outbid. When the auction was over the winning Florida bidder looked me up some how and gave me a call; said that, after reading my articles in the DGJ and learning this graded SAC gun was up for sale, was bound and determined he'd have that gun regardless. Obviously I was happy for him and hope this individual is continuing to be as happy with the gun as he was on learning he was the auction winner. I still have photos of that gun, sn #34578, a late vintage Third Model with sliding cocking plate. This was a very clean gun; but in addition to cut barrels and shortened stock, it appeared to have excessive drop. The A-1 Grade I've secured is a Second Model with fixed cocking hooks and features noticeably more engraving that #34578. Based on my research Second Model SAC guns, with a few exceptions, are much better engraved than Third Model guns. I'm assuming these differences are attributable to rising costs and are attempts to reduce build costs as much as possible.

Back in the 1970s, I bought a SAC grade a 20 gauge with 28 Krupp Steel barrels. I had the automatic ejectors with a switch in the forend so you could cut them on or off at will. It weighed a full 7 lbs was full choked in both barrels but I could shoot it reasonably well on some clay birds thrown with a "Trius" portable trap.

THEN I ad occasion to look inside the action. I have never seen such a rough finished gun before or since. Parts looked as if they had been hewed out with a foot Adz. The insides of a Birmingham proofed W Richards (Low-grade J P Clabrough) looked like a Purdey in comparison.

I fixed whatever it was I had to take it apart for, Buttoned it back up & traded it off at first opportunity & never looked back. I still have no desire to ever own another SAC shotgun.

I understand quality fell off near the end of production, mine must have been the last. I sincerely hope yours is an earlier one & much better finished internally. Mine looked decent on the outside, but a view of the inner works just made you sick at your stomach for what was supposedly a ""Quality" double.

2-Piper
My observation with SAC guns, and again with some exceptions, is that the best engraved, fitted, and finished guns are in the 25-34XXX serial number range. Most SAC 20-bores were made late in production and I have a project Grade A 20 in the 37XXX number range that would match your experience. This gun has much less engraving than a 16-bore A Grade I have in the 28XXX range and it's not very pretty inside. The subject A-1 Grade on the other hand, #31666, is finished very well internally; and all the lock-work (hammer springs, sears, cocking rods, etc.) are highly polished (look like chrome) with zero machining marks. And although this gun hasn't received the best of care over the past 115 plus years, I found these parts free of rust or staining and still bright when I took the gun apart today. The "newest" SAC gun I have in terms of not being used is a 1900 Grade OO extractor model; a $29 suggested retail gun, and SAC's lowest grade hammerless gun. This gun was used a time or two then left forgotten in a mutton leg leather case for decades; but when it is examined it is a study in what must have been SAC quality at the turn of the century. Wood to metal finish is flawless, as are checkered panels, and every screw is perfectly aligned. Given that the screw slots remain untouched, I haven't taken this gun apart; nor do I have plans to do so. Consider SAC guns to be like most other American shotguns as some production periods were better than others so that each gun must be judged on its own merits. Bottom line is that some SAC guns are works of art, and a collector shouldn't simply dismiss the entire lot based on one example.

"Not much to report on our most recent dove season."

Maybe not Stan but I'd swap places had it been possible to do so!
For whatever it's worth, the two invites I received here in Anderson were shoots conducted 2-3 days after everyone had enjoyed a great shoot and limited out in a hour. During my visits we managed a limit only after everyone put their birds in one pile! BUT we hunters are always looking to make every hunt interesting and fun; and even though I bagged only ONE bird last time out, it was a most memorable shoot. It was memorable because I shot that bird with a 1901-02 vintage Baltimore Arms Company C Grade. That rare gun, when received, had a ruined set of barrels. I was fortunate to acquire a set of 32" steel barrels (A Grade) from Daryl, then sent the barrels and gun to Buck Hamlin to be fitted. Buck said he'd never be able to fit them where they'd look correct, so sent the gun back. Months later I decided that since I'd already paid for the barrels and the gun; and both were useless as things presently stood, I'd fit them myself or ruin the gun tying. So I got out my files and started work. Buck was correct is that the final fit isn't perfect; but the barrels do fit flat on the water table, flush against the breech face, and the opening lever is slightly right of center. I did this several years ago but, for lack of opportunity, had never test fired the piece. The gun functioned flawlessly on this shoot where I also confirmed that both firing pins were striking primers dead center, and at the correct depth. To add to the fun the shells used were 1950's era Peters paper shells, which also worked perfectly. If I live long enough to finish the cosmetic touches I have planned for this gun it will be a very pretty shooter.

A friend of mine, through an unrelated hobby, would say, “You don’t need the gun, at this point, the gun needs you”.
It sounds as if you saved it for it’s intended use. You were at the point it may have ended up in the dump with someone who didn’t understand the history it represented.
I’ve never even seen a Baltimore, much less shot one, and one more of them appears to be back in the field

Good work.

Best,
Ted