I am not a Lefever owner. Now, that established my question. I am looking at a 1904 G grade Lefever to purchase. In attempting to remove the barrels from the receiver, they are hung up on something in the slot. Rather than lifting free there is something, perhaps the hook retaining the lump. As it is not my gun i am not familiar with barrel separation. Is there a 'trick' to this simple action? Thanks.

On some Lefevers during one period of time, I have seen guns where one, with the barrels open as far as possible, must reach in under the barrel flats and manually push a hook out of the way to allow the barrels to come all of the way off.

A 1904 serial number range G Grade should have the large cocking hook. It was the two hook guns which required manually reaching under the barrel flats with a pencil or small screwdriver to separate the hooks to allow removal of the barrels from the frame.

I've had a couple large hook Lefevers that gave me this problem. On one, someone had added a bit of weld to the nose of the cocking hook for better engagement with the pin in the barrel lump. The weld was probably added after someone who didn't know better removed too much material from the nose. But when the weld was dressed down, not quite enough was removed. I had to drift out the pin in the lump to get the barrels off, to see what was going on. This pin is small and very easy to lose. Dressing the nose of the cocking hook is a slow cut and try process. If you don't remove enough, the barrels cannot be removed (unless you knock the pin out of the barrel lump). If you remove a hair too much, the gun may not cock properly.

On the other gun, I believe someone who didn't know what they were doing messed with the compensating screw in the action knuckle. Or they may have replaced the cocking hook with one from another gun, and it wasn't fitted correctly. I was able to free the barrels in the usual manner simply by pushing them firmly all the way toward the breech as I removed them.

The last side plate Lefever was built 105 years ago. That amount of time helps to explain why it is getting harder and harder to find one that hasn't been messed with. I myself would probably use this problem as a dickering point to get a better price. But if I was in the position where I had to pay to send the gun to a gunsmith who understands Lefevers, it could be a deal breaker. If you mess up the cocking hook, you can't just simply go out and buy a replacement.

Thank you for your replies. This helps a great deal. I now know what to look for with this LeFever. If the compensation screw was messed with how can I determine this and is it possible to make an adjustment to free the hook?

Most of the time, the compensating screw in the action knuckle is very difficult to move. As a result, most people who attempt to move them, whether successfully or not, will leave some marks or damage to the screw slot. This is often done incorrectly when the real problem is wear in the bolt or the bolting surface in the rib extension.

One thing I should have mentioned is to make certain the gun is not cocked when you attempt to remove the barrels. The G Grade has cocking indicators. You can de-cock a Lefever without dry firing by opening the gun fully, then holding both triggers as you close it. Then remove the forend, and try removing the barrels, again making sure to push them back toward the breech as you open the gun. The cocking hook should remain down in its' recess in the frame. If it is coming up and cocking the gun as you attempt to remove the barrels, then the engagement of the cocking hook and the pin in the lump is incorrect.

Only the top of the cocking shook should be above the recess in the frame when you remove the barrels, as in this pic. The nose I spoke of is that near vertical area on the hook that faces the breech.



And here is a pic of the pin in the barrel lump that engages the slot in the cocking hook. If this pin is in that slot as you attempt to remove the barrels, you will not be able to remove them. I would not advise anyone who is not very familiar with this critical relationship to attempt doing any work themselves. A lot of so-called gunsmiths will mess this up.

Pull the extractor out all the way and then try it...Geo

I agree with George as that sounds like a good suggestion, and I can also add... that I will try it on a gun I can never get apart


That said I have a D grade Lefever I can never get the barrels off of. I have to let the hammers down ( OR "fire the gun") before I can get the barrels to release from the cocking hook.
One nice feature on the LEfevers is that you can let the hammers down without dry firing the gun if you prefer. Simply hold the top lever all the way to the right and close the gun while holding the triggers. You will feel the mainsprings pull the gun closed as you do so. Then my barrels come off without a hitch.

I'm really curious to hear your reasons for why you think that pulling the extractor all the way out, as Geo has suggested, would help matters when trying to remove the barrels from a 1905 G Grade Lefever?

And do you know the reason for this little problem with your D Grade?

I only have one two-hook Lefever, A 12 gauge G Damascus sn 20,633. I have never had to do anything to remove the barrels on it other than take off the forend, push over the to lever & lift the barrels from the frame.

I have a pivot opener @ # 10,515, the above mentioned two hook & the rest are large hook guns, starting at #29,471 & going through a late Ithaca assembled one with two SNs, 73,338/73,342. On any of these, I can take the barrels off regardless of whether the hammers are in the cocked or fired position. The location of that cocking pin through the barrel lug on the large hook guns is extremely critical. I only have one which gives any trouble & it was bought as a parts gun & the pin had been "Re-Located". The only way to assemble or dissemble it is by emoving or installing the pin.

I don't have the barrel removal/replacement problem on most of my lefevers. There is one HE Grade large hook version that I do have the problem with.

Manipulation of the top lever does no good. Then I took a look at the action lugs and noticed the part that actuates the extractor was blocking the gap between the two parts of the lug.

Extending the extractor/ejector released this part which could then be pushed back toward the muzzles to open the gap so it will accept the cocking hook. Works on mine. I suspect it is a wear problem...Geo

Thanks to all for your time and replies. Decocking was required and the barrels lift right off. When cocked the do not separate.
Now of course another question. Is there a good source for take down instructions for this G grade gun. I will need to do some lock frame cleaning and wood repair on the stock. I want to be alert to any 'surprises'.

Yes, I was almost certain that it wasn't extractors that you were pulling or messing with. Those are ejectors. Big difference! And the part that was preventing you from removing the barrels is the ejector cam, which is also in the barrel lump. When the cam doesn't easily move out of the way, it hangs up on the in-frame ejector cocking levers, and prevents removal of the barrels.

This, of course, will never be an issue with guns that do not have automatic ejectors.

As Miller says, it is usually not necessary to have the gun uncocked to remove the barrels. But if the gun is uncocked, it will very often be much easier to remove the barrels on recalcitrant guns. This is why I advised making sure it was uncocked. I'll let Marks21 explain the reason for that... since he was so certain that pulling out the "extractors" would get'er done. If he doesn't have the answer... He can always ask Dr. Bob on the Lefever forum.

I'm hoping that Miller doesn't give him any hints for awhile....

Letfly, I'm glad my advice worked for you.

Are you sure you didn't pull on the extractor??? Just kidding....

Unfortunately, I do not know of any Lefever disassembly guides.For a gun that has a relatively simple design and relatively few parts... compared to say, a Parker, they can throw you some curves. I don't really advise people who aren't familiar with them and all of their vagaries to work on them. One thing that complicates matters is that Dan Lefever was always trying to improve his designs, and there are more major and subtle changes than you might imagine at first glance. As I said before, even a lot of gunsmiths who aren't familiar with them will do more harm than good. The poorly relocated cocking pin in one of Miller's guns is a prime example. Sadly, many of those guns end up getting parted out.

I found an excellent guide. Check out INgunowners.com.
Go to DIY gunsmithing forum. There search for 1899 LeFever. You will find and excellent guide as a project write-up from a number of years (2012) back. The author of this extended post has provided an top notch guide with many detailed photos to the disassembly, cleaning, reassembly of the LeFever sideplates shotgun. This should be collated and on a direct link at the LeFever CA.

LetFly, I followed your instructions to the site but came up empty handed. Could you post the url for it?

I found the thread with the instructions after a bit of searching. I certainly won't post any links that might encourage anyone to disassemble a Lefever, and use a corn-cob abrasive blasting media to give the parts what the writer incorrectly refers to as a "factory frosted finish".

Sorry LetFly, but the title should be "How to lessen the value of your vintage Lefever Shotgun" This is proof that you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet. When someone can't spell the word patina, and then advises the use of abrasive blasting to remove it, then you know it is time to close that page.

Keith. I posted this link for those who have a Lefever and would like a visual look at the internals before attempting a takedown. I did find all of the photos very helpful. As a certified gunsmith with fifty plus years experience I will leave the manner in which one decides to clean these parts to the respective gun owner unless my advice is requested. My reading of the post is that the gun being worked on had no collector value at the start. I am working on one just like it that was on the way to the bone yard until I saved it. When done it will once again shoot all manner of upland birds over my pointing dogs.

Joe, head over to the LeFever Arms Collectors Association website. They now have this link posted on their general interest forum. Let my know if you still cannot find it and I will post it here.

Factory frosted??? OK then. The attrition train keeps rolling along.

Sorry about being harsh, but I'm into preserving these great old guns... not screwing them up... no matter how well intentioned the screwing up may be.

I am surprised to hear that you are a certified gunsmith with 50 plus years of experience. Can you explain to Marks21 why you were unable to remove the barrels on your 1899 Lefever? There is a reason why I said that even many gunsmith's should not be messing with these guns.

I am not surprised to hear that the Lefever Collectors website has a link to a tutorial that includes abrasive blasting the parts of a Lefever. That helps to confirm my thoughts about the relative uselessness of that venue.

Keith, I do appreciate all your assistance on my questions. I agree completely as to garage gun guys. As to the Lefever I never had any interest in this maker until just recently when one came along that was headed to the parts bin. I just could not resist saving the gun. I work mainly and selectively on high end German (pre WWI Sauer's) and U.S. makers Parker & Remington SxS guns.

Good luck in your efforts to return your new/old Lefever to the field. If I can be of assistance in helping to maintain proper function and originality, let me know. There are some other very knowledgeable Lefever guys like Miller who are also always willing to help save a Lefever. They are quality guns that are worthy of saving to pass on to future generations.

I saw your request for a replacement cocking rod in the DIY Gunsmithing forum. If your gun is indeed an 1899 gun, it isn't at all likely to be a rod cocker. Cocking rods were only used from around 1884 to 1890, and subsequent guns utilized a few different types of cocking hooks. It might help you a lot if you posted a picture of your broken part.

You are right and I have posted a photo of the offending Lefever part in the original forum post. I will put it here also.



Not being familiar with the Lefever parts jargon, I labeled this a cocking rod as it does cock the hammers. I should have thought it might be confusing with the earlier Lefever model.

What do Lefever folks call this cocking rod? This only other descriptive name I could come up with would be cocking pin?

Interesting that the right hammer cocked as long as the broken key was captured in the hammer slot and sideplate. Looking at the material construction of this part I wonder how many other Lefever models have a similar problem only to remain undetected unless completely stripped for cleaning.

If I can find an original part replacement in sound condition I would prefer that to making a new part, even though a new part would be much superior as this would keep the gun with all period parts. If you can help locate one I would appreciate it. Thanks for your help.

I've always heard them referred to as a cocking axle. However, Gun Parts Corp., aka Numrich Arms has one in stock, and they call it a hammer pin.

The SKU # is 1576740 and the price is a very reasonable $7.00
Considering that small cost for an original part, it is hardly worth the effort to machine a new one.

I have never seen this part break. The part is directional, and if I remember correctly, the X on one end should be oriented toward the right side. I can double check that before you install it if you want.

Thank you for certain. When I checked at GPC I overlooked and did not see this part. Thank you for alerting me. It is now on its way to me.
Cocking axle is certainly the best descriptive label for this part. I will post photos on the restoration project as I go along.

Question: The firing pins are free floating without any means of retracting from the breech face holes. Did LeFever ever add rebound springs in this model? Again thanks.

Keith is correct, the marked end of the hammer axle goes to the right. I seem to recall that most of mine have a single line across the end rather than an X, but either mark goes to the right.

I just addressed the rebound spring in another thread, higher up on the forum.

Thank you. The hammer pin is to arrive on Monday. I will post a photo when it arrives.

I have the hammer pin and it does have a single line on one end. Check my question posted on the general form. I need advice on fitting the new pin to my hammers and cocking hook.

Hammer pin from GPC not correct as it was too short. +1.211 and should be +1.291. GPC has no clue. They just respond a hammer pin is a hammer pin. Still looking.

Just a guess, but it sounds like the cocking or hammer pin you received possibly came from a 16 or 20 gauge small frame gun. The small frames have an XX stamp on the water table opposite the serial number and grade stamp. It does make sense that the dimensions of this part would differ, since the firing pin spacing is obviously less in the smaller gauge guns.

I have a 16 gauge H built on the XX frame. The width of the frame is narrower than on any of my 12 gauge guns which weigh from 6½ to 8 bs. The 6½ lb 12 is not built on the XX frame although it is ¼ lb lighter than my 16 @ 6 3/4 lbs.

I highly suspect that Keith is correct that the pin in question was from an XX frame gun.

I have risked another $12 and ordered another from GPC after sending them a note stating that the item must be +1.290 to fill the order. It is on its way. What is the likelihoid of drawing two small frame pins given that most Lefever guns were 12b? Maybe I will get one from a heavy frame 10b. I will let you know.