Bought some #11 percussion caps today was going to shoot it. Caps are too small. Outside diameter of the nipple is .180 a #11 inside diameter is .162 measured with calipers. Anyone know of a cap that will work?
Mike,
What about the other way around - changing nipples instead of caps? This is supposed to be a "standard procedure" for firing old caplocks anyway, according to my past readings. And keep the old nipples for originality (is there a capbox?).
Cheers,
Jani
musket caps maybe? If you change the nipple I would bet it is 1/4" 28 tpi. I have used the Tresso nipples with very good luck.
I have "turned down" nipples that were too large, or too tight a fit for my #11 caps. Different brands vary a wee bit but not enough to fix your issue. I just removed the nipple, wrapped the threads with several layers of Teflon thread tape for some protection, lightly tightened it in the chuck of my drill press, and with it turning at the slowest speed available hold a file to the cap area of the nipple and take a little off at the time, to the point that a cap slips on and stays on place while it is upside down in the drill press. Some of the ultra hard alloys may require the use of a stone in place of the file, but I never had to mess with any of them.
SRH
I took them to a buddy with a lathe and he turned them down to fit #11's. They didn't look flattened but maybe they were.
Get new nipples. Track of the Wolf has a very large selection of them, including antique style blued nipples that will not look out of place on an old gun. They will also perform better. The flash holes on antique nipples are horrendously oversized/worn out in most cases.
Percussion caps are remarkably non-standard. Some one published a list of caps on Muzzle Loader Forum a few years ago, 10's and 11's with micrometer readings. I've put some nipples in a drill and turned them down on a sharpening stone, which is pretty much what you have done.
It wouldn't hurt to pick up a spare pair of nipples. You will need to know the size and pitch of the threads in your breech. You can take a nipple to your hardware store, which may possess a thread measure. If not you can try the nipple in various nuts in the parts section, until you find one that works well. As noted abve, Track of the Wolf has an impressive selection of nipples, including various oversizes, should the threads in the brecch be worn.
I put a pair of "Ampco" nipples on an I Hollis 12 gauge MLer shotgun some 50 years ago. I haven't used it much of late but shot it quite a bit for several years after acquiring it. They are still in it & still serviceable. As I recall they are made of Beryllium. It is a quite hard metal & very resistant to burning out. I do not know if they are still available or not. They do not look authentic but give better service & it's no big deal to have a set of steel ones when you want it to "Look Proper", it's not like it's a permanent modification.
I also use one of these on my 45 caliber caplock Long Rifle. I have some of the Italian made repros of the Colt Cap & Ball revolvers which I also need new nipples for. My problem with these is the #11 is too large & doesn't seat snugly. I have shot them some by squeezing the sides till they will stay on, but I don't like that loose fit. Problem is I have a Texas Patterson, Walker, Baby Dragoon, 1860 Army & an 1861 Navy so am looking at at least 28 new nipples. Good quality ones aren't all that cheap, at least for a Po Boy like me.
sounds as if you might have a nipple fetish 2-piper. lol
TOW has them ("Ampco Bronze")
At the time I bought the ones I have I believe I bought them from Dixie Gunworks. I do seem to remember them being advertised as being made of Beryllium Bronze an alloy which is both harder & more heat resistant than ordinary Bronze, an alloy of copper & tin. Brass is an alloy of copper & zinc.
Whatever the exact alloy is I have nothing but good to say them. Actually, their color looks good against browned barrels in my opinion.
Hi all, if the gun is English, be wary of nipple thread size. Most percussion era English nipple threads were 1/4" BSF 26 tpi, this does NOT correspond to the thread of 1/4" UNF which has 28 tpi and a different thread form. I have tried to buy BSF nipples from TOTW in the past, but they only stocked UNF. Hope to this saves someone graunching threads!!
My, I Hollis was Birmingham made & had ¼-28 threads. The new ¼-28 threaded nipples screwed right in by hand only needing the wrench for final tightening.
It did not have original nipples in it when I acquired it, so they may have been recut, but there was no visible evidence of it.
Interesting about the Hollis and i think you are right they probably have been recut to take readily available nipples. You would not necessarily see where a good craftsman has been! I can't believe Hollis would have used UNF, or SAE (Society of American Engineers) threads as would have been at the time (same thread form).
All my English original guns are 1/4" BSF taking No. 11 caps, except a large fowling piece which has a military style nipple taking 4 winged musket caps. The thread generally used on these is 5/16" BSW. Hope this helps.
My Wm. Moore 2 groove circa pre-1845 is also 1/4" 28 tpi and does not look re-cut. I have had a bunch of other British ML's through that also have 1/4" 28 nipples. I never have run across BSF threads in any that have come through my shop. I am not saying you are wrong, just relating my experience.
My I Hollis carries the optional Provisional proof mark showing it was given this proof in the finished state along with the definitive so appears to have been made after 1868.
I am a Craftsman, spent over .35 years in the machinist trade. I tapped a lot of holes in that time. It is near impossible to change the pitch of the thread without it showing up. In changing from 26 to 28 TPI you will change the width of each thread by about ..003". This accumulates so after about 5 threads the original thread will be cut in about half. All threads appeared full down to the bottom of the nipple seat.
Hi 2-piper, my term recut in my post was an unfortunate generalisation term. As you say, of course you would not be able to make 1/4" BSF into 1/4" UNF by tapping it out. But, I have seen an example where a breech plug nipple hole thread was so badly worn, the remains of the thread had to be bored out, a plug screwed/welded back in, and the plug drilled and tapped to the desired thread. Once cleaned up with an end mill, you would never have known it had been done (other than being very clean).
Hi SKB, very interesting that you have seen many English Guns with 1/4" 28 tpi threaded nipple holes with presumably a UNF type thread form. We all live and learn!
Also interesting to note that BSW and UNC threads have the same tpi, but different thread form.
Mine was not "Very Clean". I am pretty positive it had not been bushed. Everything about it simply leads me to believe it was originally tapped ¼-28 NF.
I have "turned down" nipples that were too large, or too tight a fit for my #11 caps. Different brands vary a wee bit but not enough to fix your issue. I just removed the nipple, wrapped the threads with several layers of Teflon thread tape for some protection, lightly tightened it in the chuck of my drill press, and with it turning at the slowest speed available hold a file to the cap area of the nipple and take a little off at the time, to the point that a cap slips on and stays on place while it is upside down in the drill press. Some of the ultra hard alloys may require the use of a stone in place of the file, but I never had to mess with any of them.
SRH
I've also turned down percussion nipples the same way only I just used my power drill and it worked fine. You just have to be careful not to over tighten the nipple in the chuck. When I was done I blackened the nipples with cold blue.
Steve
I finally shot it a few days ago. with 2 1/2 drams and 1 oz it's a bit lively. Might have to back off a bit.