At a local gun shop. 12x12x??? rifle.
Is the safety on the side like I see it called here 'Greener safety'?
When you push forward what I thought was the safety, the rifle sights pop up.
Who is the guy's name on the right barrel?
The left barrel says 'Sempert Krieghoff Suhl' for the bad pics.
Anyone know what the german words translate to?
Also, can anyone tell a year of manufacture?

thanks, redoftx.

I can answer one question. The safety is on the side. The rather large "safety" button on the tang pops the rifle sight up and cocks the rifle barrel. Thus, when when you are bird hunting the rifle is uncocked, and can't go off even if heavily jarred. Dietrich Appel's grandfather (or father)invented it.

The rifle barrel looks to be 8x57mm according to the barrel markings. The scope is a pretty decent Kahles, which is currently made by Swarovski.
Karl

8x57R (either JRS or JR)
Either a .318 or a .323 bore
Mine is a .318 bore, and the J is really an I, so for mine it is an 8x57IR

15 grams is 231.485 grains


https://www.sportsmansguide.com/productl...c=96&s=2884

Take a look here on manufacture dates

And measure the 12 gauge chambers, they may be 65mm as I could
not read the marks in the photos.

Made 1912 to 1939 but should get more exact with better pictures. (see Item #20)

Looks like 1136 or November 1936

Mike

fun reading:
http://www.germanguns.com/upload/archive/index.php/t-584.html

Are these pretty common drillings? I've always wanted a drilling and this one might be in my budget. I didn't measure the bbl length nor did I take a pic of the muzzle but it has cross hatching, so I don't think it's been cut.

Axle E. on 0.318" vs 0.323":

"Apparently the changeover was completed 1926. Jon Speed's book "Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles", page 274, shows a table of cartridge dimensions agreed upon July 23, 1926 by the German arms and ammo manufacturers association. It shows new//old designations: 8x57IR // M88/8 mit Rand or M88B, 8x57I // M88N, 8x51 // M88/8 kurz or H, 8x57IS // M88/8S.
The German M1888 cartridge was loaded with a .318" 14.7gramm = 227grs (roughly 15gramm)round nose bullet. This was the standard/only hunting load up to WW1. The military S cartridge used a .323" 10g = 154gr pointed bullet that never became popular as a sporting load. In WW1 the German army changed to the sS = heavy pointed bullet for machine gun use, bullet weight 12,7g =196gr. This became the standard weight for both the I and S bores close to WW2. Up until after WW2 the I = .318" bullet was regarded as the sporting type, while the S-bore was the "military" one, used on Sporting rifles mostly for the "Magnum" loads to relieve pressures. Only the 1940 proof law introduced min-max dimensions and the strict differentiating between I and S bores. So take any rifle proofed for a 15g bullet to be an I bore. Also, any other commercial pre-WW2 8mm barrel, except you prooved otherwise by slugging the bore and making a chamber cast."

15 gramme projectile:
"The German M1888 cartridge was loaded with a .318" 14.7gramm = 227grs (roughly 15gramm)round nose bullet."

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=442941

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post277508

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

"Hermann Röchling & Wilhem Rodenhauser teamed up in 1905 I believe it was & it may be their 1st alloy developed between 1907-1916? Their furnace, Röchling-Rodenhauser-Induktions-Ofens, was online by 1908. Roechling had a large influence at Mousson in the French province of Lorraine by establishing a monopoly. Apparently in 1914 in constructing their own steel mill the Carlshütte they were utilizing components, tools & machinery from the French-Lorraine area and after WWI that was frowned upon by the powers that be and in 1918 one of the Röchling fellas(probably Hermann & maybe a brother Robert) was convicted of disassembly of a French multiple smelter and the demerit was 10 years, fine of 10 million Francs and a banishment of 15 years from Saarland. Looks as if Robert spent some time there as Hermann was elusive and escaped to Heidelberg."

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=321008&page=2

Might have been in 1909?

The Grondal Kjellin and Rochling Rodenhauser Electric Steel Furnaces An illustrated account of experimental work. - Engng Jan 22 1909.

The Electric Furnace and Electrical Process of Steelmaking. Rodenhauser Read before the I and S Inst An illustrated summary of types of furnaces in present use with particular reference to the Rochling Rodenhauser furnace. - Ir & Coal Trds Rev May 14 1909.

The Kjellin and Rochling Rodenhauser Electric Furnaces Dr. F.A. Kjellin Describes the construction and advantages of the Kjellin furnace giving cost of production of steel and explains the working of the Rochling Rodenhauser furnace and cost of production.=-Elect n Lond Oct 8 1909."

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post338741

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

RedofTx:
Not common, especially in 12g. A good one according to pictures. Cartridge is most probably 8x57IR (.318), offered by Sellier & Bellot or handloaded. Shotgun chambers are likely short 65 mm.
The drilling was proved November, 1936. Name on barrel is local seller/gunsmith.
Scope is Austrian postwar, Kahles variable 2-7x, a good one if a bit heavy due to steel tube.

Cheers,
Jani

Greener safety on the left & selector atop. Blitz Action Sempert & Kreighoff all in-house Krieghoff offering. I do wonder if Kriehoff was the tube source for Roechling Elektro tubes. Then who might have been rolling the rough tubes?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I wonder if the "S HS" stamps denotes it might be 0.323"?? I would slug the bore......


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

If it is actually a 12ga it would be less common than having 16ga barrels. I don't believe that the barrel selector on that model cocks the rifle barrel, it only selects the barrel, unless there is a larger knob behind the selector shown.

Caliber is most likely 8x57R shooting .318 bullets. Most of the .323 diameter 8x57R are in post war drillings.

It looks like the date might be 11/35 (Nov. 1935).
Look for a 12, 12/70, 12/65, 16, 16/65 or 16/70 I don't know the dates when they started designating chamber length. If there is only a 12 o 16 in a circle or diamond they are 65mm (2 1/2") chambers. It should be on the barrel flats which aren't shown.

I admit I'm not an authority on drillings but a love to hunt with them and have three and am seriously looking at number four if I can get the gun fund back up where it is needed.

Welcome to the addictive world of drillings.

>>Robert Hübner was a native of Zella-Mehlis(probably Mehlis) but hung out his gunmaking shingle in Darmstadt, possibly circa WWI. He was a master gunsmith.<<



>>Sempert & Krieghoff was the original concern founded by Heinrich's father.<<


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Tomorrow I will go back with my Skeet's bore gauge to measure bore diameter. I will verify chamber length as well. But my Manson wall thickness gauge is permanently mounted on the wall. Any other pics that might help anyone?

Thank you all so much for your help.
This is why I read this bbs.

redoftx.



Typed 4/19 - 9:45amCST :
The drilling shotgun bores are 16, not 12. He had it listed as 12.
Right bore - 2 9/16 chamber; .680 bore; 2" of choke taper and .643 at muzzle.
Left bore - 2 9/16 chamber; .682 bore; 2" of choke taper and .645 at muzzle.
BBL length - 23 1/2" or 60cm
It is engraved Krieghoff Trumpf (if I spelled it correctly) under the receiver ahead of trigger guard.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101089834

A similar S&K Blitz Action but w/ a drop-lock triggerplate









Cheers,

Raimey
rse

RedofTx,
If you can swing it, go back and buy it. You will enjoy it. Ammo ( 8x57IR) is available and it is easy to load for.
Mike

Well, I swung, and connected, but don't know what I hit. I feel like it was an okay deal. What's the saying, if a buyer and seller agree, then both are happy? or something like that.

I got the drilling, the Kahles scope, a 22Mag insert made by Krieghoff to go into the right bore, scope carrying case when not in use, and 20 rifle rounds of 8x57JRS(assuming that is the right caliber. $3K.

Headed off to work right now but tomorrow I will post pics of the muzzle, and better pics of the barrel flats to make sure of the rifle caliber before I fire the rifle barrel.

thanks.

RedofTex,
The proof marks show the correct caliber is 8x57IR( AKA JR).This ammo is available. In spite of this, there is an outside chance you can also use 8x57IRS (JRS). If you fire an 8x57IR cartridge and a .323" bullet will fit easily into the fired but unsized case, then you can use 8x57IRS (JRS). If it will not fit, then you should only use 8x57IR. If you don't want to do the test, you can always safely use 8x57IR.( as a caution, in performing the test, use a bare bullet, and check with the shank. the nose will not be .323")
Both cartridges are great and you are not disadvantaged with either. I have Kahles scopes and you are sure to be satisfied with yours. The insert barrel( Einstecklauf) makes the drilling a universal gun, I have used them to shoot fox, bobcat, hare, racoon, and squirrel. All in all, you have a great rig.
Mike

Here are a few more photos.

I will try to locate some 8x57IR and try the above mentioned test.

RedofTex,
Check Buffalo Arms, Graf & Sons, or Huntington Die Spec. Z&B has a website. Their ammo is reasonably priced.
Mike