doublegunshop.com - home
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/22/19 09:18 PM
A few years back #1 son was given an old shotgun that had been laying on the floor of a barn. The stock was completely rotten. He stuck it in his own shed and gave it to me a year or so ago. I finally got around to nickeling the rust off of it, squared off the barrels that had been hacked back to 27" and I'm working on getting a new stock. The fore end is still in good shape. All internals except the left trigger are in good shape. I need to find a trigger guard and a left side hammer.

Do any of you guys know of a vintage parts house (besides Numrich. These items not in stock) that might have these parts?

Alan
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/22/19 09:24 PM
Oh, and yes, I know I am going to have the most expensive tomato stake on the block.

Alan
Posted By: keith Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/22/19 09:42 PM
Alan, if you had asked before you started, my advice would have been to not waste any time on a Crescent... unless you just wanted to practice some gunsmithing techniques before working on something more valuable. They made a ton of Crescents and Crescent Gun Co. variants, and when you see them at gun shows, most have shown they did not stand the test of time very well. Even complete guns that are still in decent condition don't sell for very much because they have no collector value.

But since you are into it, and it beats just watching TV, you could start by doing searches on Ebay every few days. It's only a matter of time before another one gets parted out and listed there. Unfortunately, there are a few purveyors of cheap worn out gun parts on Ebay lately that are selling a lot of junk with crazy-high starting bid prices. You have to sort through all that to find someone who isn't smoking crack when they list their junk. I also see a LOT of Crescent parts in boxes of gun parts at gun shows. Most aren't labeled, so you need to know exactly what you're looking for.
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/22/19 09:57 PM
I know it's not going to be a collectors item and is certainly not worth the effort monetarily, but, as you pointed out, it is good practice and one of these days .....

and if not, it'll be like that old fellow down the street who was cutting down a tree. He was having a devil of a time and I stopped and offered to help him, he declined. I insisted, ... he stopped and looked me dead in the eye and said, "Alan, I've got the rest of my life to cut this tree down..."

I also like working on things that I really can't screw up. This Crescent fits nicely into that category.

That's kinda where I am on this shotgun. I've been moving it out of the way for a year now so I decided that since I sit around most days anyway, I could look like I'm doing something important just in case the Captain comes roun lookin for slackers.

I've been checking Numrich for a couple of weeks now and that particular commodity hasn't changed at all. I'll start looking on eBay. All you have to do with eBay is look once and they'll send you five or six emails a day.

I did cheat a bit on it and used a brass brush on some of the rust. The outside of the barrels is pitted some but the bores are clean by comparison. Much better than I anticipated. It's got one really dark spot near the muzzle on the left barrel.

Thanks for the reply. I'll surf eBay tonight.

Alan
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/22/19 10:00 PM
Dang! They've got all kinds of neat stuff on eBay!

Alan
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/22/19 10:05 PM
Will the end result be worth the rest of you life...

Just saying.
Posted By: Run With The Fox Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/22/19 10:44 PM
,Send me a picture or tracing of the right hand hammer, and include all pertinent dims. I may have a LH hammer in my "cigar boxed inventory" that might work-- I have two trigger guard bows at present, both from field grade L.C. Smiths- pre-1913 with the two set screw holes-- if that might give you something to work with. I have never worked on a Crescent shotgun, so this is just a "shot in the dark" but if I can assist with this restoration project, OK--RWTF
Posted By: keith Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/22/19 11:07 PM
Originally Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr
Dang! They've got all kinds of neat stuff on eBay!

Alan


Yeah, but two years ago, I could see all of the Ebay Lefever parts listings on under 2 pages of 25 items per page. Now it's anywhere from 5 to 7 pages because Gun Garage and a couple others have piles of extremely over-priced Nitro Special parts. If you bought the parts from them to build a complete Nitro Special, it would probably cost nearly a grand to have a mismatched $150.00 shooter. It's always good to have several projects to work on so you can move to another when you get tempted to get impatient or pay too much for some little part that will come along soon enough at a reasonable price.
Posted By: mark Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/22/19 11:20 PM
Alan, I have a box of Cresent parts. I am just back from a road trip. Give me a few days to get back in the swing. I don't think I have any stocks but I may have a forend wood. If you don't hear from me feel free to rattle my cage mark@mbabllc.com
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/23/19 01:08 AM
Originally Posted By: Run With The Fox
,Send me a picture or tracing of the right hand hammer, and include all pertinent dims. I may have a LH hammer in my "cigar boxed inventory" that might work-- I have two trigger guard bows at present, both from field grade L.C. Smiths- pre-1913 with the two set screw holes-- if that might give you something to work with. I have never worked on a Crescent shotgun, so this is just a "shot in the dark" but if I can assist with this restoration project, OK--RWTF


Thanks. I will get all that info tomorrow and find some way to get it to you. I appreciate the help. There was a left hammer present on the shotgun but it was obviously the wrong one as it was much bigger. I don't know if it even hit the firing pin. I doubt the owner before last knew either because the left trigger had been filed down to the point it won't touch the sear much less fire the gun. I believe I can repair that with some silver solder and a thin piece of steel attached to the outside of the trigger fin (or whatever it's called).

The trigger guard is one that twists in and then attached with one screw. I may be able to tap the guard and with my extra strong glasses file a large screw head into the shape of the cam. Or not.

Alan
Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/23/19 01:11 AM
I used to have an Ender's Royal Service, MBC. Sold by a specific hardware chain in Missouri, I think. Mine only fired both barrels at once. It sure was loud...Geo
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/23/19 01:13 AM
Originally Posted By: mark
Alan, I have a box of Cresent parts. I am just back from a road trip. Give me a few days to get back in the swing. I don't think I have any stocks but I may have a forend wood. If you don't hear from me feel free to rattle my cage mark@mbabllc.com


Mark, I will send you an email in a couple of days. The forend is good to use but as is the case with many of these old guns the stock is toast. Another forum friend up in Missouri is going to Macon Gun Stocks next week on his own business and he's going to check on whether they can turn a duplicate stock for that shotgun. I fear they probably can and then I'll be in the inletting business (a business I'd rather not be in right now). I'm not that good at it and it looks like inletting for those old guns is not a beginners task.

Thanks for the offer and I appreciate the help.

Alan
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/23/19 01:28 AM
Originally Posted By: keith
Originally Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr
Dang! They've got all kinds of neat stuff on eBay!

Alan


Yeah, but two years ago, I could see all of the Ebay Lefever parts listings on under 2 pages of 25 items per page. Now it's anywhere from 5 to 7 pages because Gun Garage and a couple others have piles of extremely over-priced Nitro Special parts. If you bought the parts from them to build a complete Nitro Special, it would probably cost nearly a grand to have a mismatched $150.00 shooter. It's always good to have several projects to work on so you can move to another when you get tempted to get impatient or pay too much for some little part that will come along soon enough at a reasonable price.


Impatient? I tripped over the darn thing for a year before I scratched the rust off of it. Projects started: 1. Enders restoration. 2. J.Stevens 335 restoration. 3. Savage 1899 22 HP Takedown restoration. 4. Mauser 95 re-stock. 5, 6, 7. Mauser 98s to re-stock. 8. Need med high rings for CZ 17 HMR. 9. Work up cast bullet load for Ruger 22 Hornet. 10. Try to find ANYTHING the Henry BBS 41 mag will shoot into a pie plate at 50 yards. There's probably more....

And that's just guns. There's a shower stall project winding up tomorrow, oak tree trimming winding up tomorrow, garden that needs planting, I fertilized heavy and it's been raining all week so mowing starts and never stops, then there's six grandkids (That's a drop everything and be grandpa thing for me).

I just don't have time to be impatient.

Unfortunately, in perusing the eBay offerings today, I saw a bunch of things that I can use.......

Thanks for all the help.

Alan
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/23/19 01:30 AM
One of the great things about this internet demon is that a fellow can get more information in an afternoon from lots of different sources, than he could get from a month of looking through books and magazines.

I certainly appreciate the help. It makes the process a lot more fun.

Alan
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/23/19 04:04 AM
Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
I used to have an Ender's Royal Service, MBC. Sold by a specific hardware chain in Missouri, I think. Mine only fired both barrels at once. It sure was loud...Geo


I believe that may have been a problem with this shotgun as well. The triggers are very loose and the front trigger, if pulled just right comes extremely close (touching) to the left sear. I believe the former owner mistakenly blamed the left trigger as the culprit, hence the filing of the fin.

Alan
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/23/19 01:46 PM
George and Alan: Wm. Enders Oak Leaf, Enders Royal Service, Royal Field, Royal Western, and Special Service were Crescent tradename guns for Simmons Hdw., and possibly Shapleigh Hdw. Co., St. Louis.
Enders Royal American was a Hopkins & Allen double; Enders Royal a Hunter Arms Co. Fulton tradename double.
Wm. Enders was Sales Manager in 1904, and Vice President of E.C. Simmons Hdw. in 1914.

You can find an estimated DOM here
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1OxZo5Tkvx2G8eYf747QR9B5RJdN6Siu5JGIhfguSXXQ
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/23/19 02:35 PM
Drew, thanks for posting this. I'll read it thoroughly tonight. I hope you don't mind if I pass it along to another friend of mine who is rebuilding a Crescent as well.

Alan
Posted By: David Zincavage Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/23/19 03:49 PM
I was so tickled by this thread that I've quoted most of it as an example of Americana on my blog.

https://neveryetmelted.com/2019/02/23/is-this-a-great-country-or-what-2/
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/23/19 04:04 PM
Pretty obvious that they need to ban cigar boxes. When I started the Stevens 335 it was because I had a butt plate in a cigar box that I found a shotgun for......

Alan
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/23/19 04:23 PM
In many ways (most, probably), society has adopted a "Throw Away" mentality. There is something hardwired into my being that does not allow me to go there. I have gotten a little better about disassembling anything that has screws or bolts on it, salvaging electrical cords, etc... (you've got the picture), but If it is gun related it gets kept. Cigar boxes have given way to plastic coffee cans and ziploc bags, but the concept is still there.

I live with a "Throw Away" person. She read in a magazine once that folks need to downsize and de-clutter. I said "Go for it. Don't touch my stuff". She threw away a Lexus key and remoter the other day because she thought the handful of receipts and gum wrappers in the bottom of her purse was trash......

$350 later, a day trip to San Antonio and a new set of all other keys, and she's rethinking that attitude...

I keep it all. Most of my space in this world is filled with stuff I'm keeping for "someday". That's fine. I hope when I'm gone, the person who gets all of it can differentiate between good junk and bad junk and then keep it all.

Alan
Posted By: David Zincavage Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/23/19 04:43 PM
I bought a broken Colt Agent myself and bought parts from Jack First, and I thought seriously that I could repair it. I had a merry time getting the spring and screw for the new hand in there (no space), and I was up and down finding the spring that got away a few times. I got it all back together and it just did not work.

It was rather frustrating. There were involved really under a dozen parts. The problem was: some parts needed special fitting and one could not see how they interacted, or what was going on, because they operated in two layers, and the problem was underneath the upper layer.

My friend's gunsmith cousin also had a go at it. He, too, failed. So I finally sent it to Cylinder& Slide. They fixed it and tuned it, and it works beautifully now.
Posted By: KY Jon Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/23/19 04:45 PM
When looking at EBay it’s too easy to get overwhelmed with all the clutter. Almost 100% of the clutter is on Buy it Now listing. After looking at it all once if you must and not seeing what you want just skip it and henceforth just search by auction only items. The Buy it Now listing have become a EBay store which has the same items listed forever.
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 01:27 AM
Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
George and Alan: Wm. Enders Oak Leaf, Enders Royal Service, Royal Field, Royal Western, and Special Service were Crescent tradename guns for Simmons Hdw., and possibly Shapleigh Hdw. Co., St. Louis.
Enders Royal American was a Hopkins & Allen double; Enders Royal a Hunter Arms Co. Fulton tradename double.
Wm. Enders was Sales Manager in 1904, and Vice President of E.C. Simmons Hdw. in 1914.

You can find an estimated DOM here
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1OxZo5Tkvx2G8eYf747QR9B5RJdN6Siu5JGIhfguSXXQ


Looks like mine was made in 1911.

Alan
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 01:47 AM
I love fixing things that don't work. I found a Dewalt band saw once at a garage sale. Had $10 on it. The guy said it didn't work. I handed him a $10 bill, adjusted the blade cant, turned it on, it worked fine, and I left. The guy was looking at the $10 bill when I was driving away.

Another guy had a Jeep Cherokee, he said it wouldn't start and he'd take $500 for it. He had it at a shadetree mechanics house. He said the fuel pump was out. I looked and the hose was disconnected. Hmmm? I got a bit of gas and poured it in the carb (yes it was that long ago). Cranked the engine and it started. Hmmmmm? I thought, if the fuel pump was bad why leave it disconnected but still attached, it's just two bolts. Hmmmmm? I crawled under the Jeep, catching the look on the michanic's face, he wasn't happy. Hmmmmmmm? What are these little wires hanging down right here. Twisted them together and tried the ket again. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... yep! Gave the guy five C notes, started the jeep and drove away. Went through two engines on that jeep, hated every mile I drove it, and every second I worked on it.

J. Stevens 335. Back together, tried it out today. Works great, doesn't double, flips back on "Safe" after every shot. No biggie right? Unless you break the spring messing with it...... looking for one of those tonight....

There's always one more thing. That's life I guess. If everything went perfect every time I'd never look like a genius, EVER!

Alan
Posted By: moses Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 01:56 AM
Originally Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... yep! Gave the guy five C notes, started the jeep and drove away. Went through two engines on that jeep, hated every mile I drove it, and every second I worked on it.
Alan


Yep, as always with a jeep, the seller gets the better deal at any price.
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 02:37 AM
When I sold it, I explained that the rear windshield washer hose was broken and pushed the button. Water squirted out directly behind the vehicle in a long stream. The guy thought it was hilarious and never blinked writing the check for $2400... I ran inside and locked the door when he left.

Alan
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 03:07 AM
Did those old timers just get a new shotgun and whack it against a tree to break the stock? It seems like every stock I come across is broken at the wrist.

Alan
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 03:15 AM
Alan;
The very first shotgun I personally owned was a J Stevens Arms & Tool Co 12 gauge double which I think must have been a model 335. Unfortunately, I traded it off some 55 years ago. I had it in mind that it may have been a 325, but it didn't have mono-block barrels. At that point in time, I didn't know what chopper lump barrels were so can't say if it had them or not. It had the plain wedge bolt & not a rotary so would have been no higher grade than the 335.

After I bought it I found it would double if the back trigger was pulled first. Investigation showed the holes in the sears were worn & they could shift about a bit. The left sear tail sat a bit lower than the right one so when the back trigger was pulled the sear tails rubbed together & both sears lifted. I placed a small coil spring on the sear pin between them which pushed them apart & it never doubled again.

I knew a man who went to look at an old McCormick gas burning tractor, a W9 which was priced real cheap because it wouldn't run. He looked it over & paid the owner, who then went in his house to write him out a receipt. While he was gone the man took a piece of chewing gum & stripped off the foil wrapper, removed the distributor cap & placed the foil inside. When the owner came back out of the house it was running. His nephew was with him so he drove the truck home & the new owner got on the W9 & drove it home.
The nephew told me about it later when he came to work where I worked & we came good friends, but he didn't know exactly where in the distributor his uncle put the foil, but the reason it wouldn't start was it was failing to produce a spark to the plugs.
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 03:44 AM
I have heard of that but don't know how it's done either.

Numrich had the spring for 4.95 + 4.95 shipping. Ebay had the whole safety assembly with spring for $11 + $4 shipping. Ebay won.

Alan
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 03:48 AM
This 335 has a very light left side strike. Second try failed to fire. Fired on the second click. I noticed when cleaning it up that one side of the barrels had a pretty good grove worn from hitting the firing pin. I may be getting one (or two) of those soon too.

Alan
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 04:12 AM
Alan;
One question since you have yours apart. It has been so long since I had mine I have been trying to remember. I know it has coil mainsprings which are located in the bar of the frame with a guide rod through them. Does this rod Push on the lower part of the hammer below the axle or does it Pull on the upper part above the axle?. I am somewhat wanting to think this rod serves a dual purpose of being pushed back by the cocking cams to cock the hammers while simultaneously compressing the main springs & then also pulls the hammer forward to fire the shell. Or does it have two rods, one for cocking & one for firing?

I had to replace the left mainspring in mine shortly after I got it. It would usually fire a WW shell but consistently snap on a Rem/Peters shell. I assume the WW primer was a bit softer than the RP.
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 05:12 AM
I'll have to look in the morning. I really didn't take mine that "Apart" but I still have the stock off. I'll look. Numrich has a schematic, it might show there.

Alan
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 05:18 AM
If I had to make a guess right now I would say one.

Alan
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 11:56 AM
Alan's Crescent should have the coil spring lock and cocking indicators



but guns returned for repair could have been fitted with the later U-spring lock



Here is the schematic



or the even later c. 1927 crude wire spring





The No. 66 Quail model did have a second rod, and I don't know what it did

Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 12:41 PM
Great job of copy and pasting dOc.
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 01:18 PM
Quote:
J. Stevens 335. Back together, tried it out today. Works great, doesn't double, flips back on "Safe" after every shot. No biggie right? Unless you break the spring messing with it...... looking for one of those tonight...


This was the one I asked the question about, not the Crescent. As Alan mentioned he had it apart I thought perhaps how the action worked. Well, I guess I was Assuming he had it apart, what he actually said was he had it Back Together.
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 02:02 PM
I try not to take things that are working apart unless there is some real need. I'm working on cup of coffee #2 right now and I wouldn't dare touch a tool until that's done. It's "apart" enough to replace the broken spring. I'll see what I can see.

Alan
Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr Re: Enders Royal Service (Crescent) - 02/24/19 02:02 PM
And the Enders is a hammer gun.

Alan
© The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com