Can anyone tell me about F. Warnier shotguns. I was looking at one that seemed very nice for the price, but I am unfamiliar with them. It looked to be a very early 20th century, French gun. Are they generally well made? This one had very nice wood, some decent engraving, well under 7#.

The lighting was terrible, but I took some photos of the proofs that I don't understand. Perhaps someone can comment on them. I'll post them shortly.

These are the proofs.

French gun seller in Paris Felix Warner.

Not sure if he simply sold guns made by others or made any himself.

Other examples of guns with his name on it include Belgian made guns of decent quality

See this other thread http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=424335&page=3

Belguim
and older than 1922

http://www.shotguns.se/html/belgium.html

Re-proofed, the PV mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof

70mm chamber length
20.6 is chamber diameter

1.266 Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used.

Barrels, and likely the gun by Joseph Cap
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20c/a%20cap%20joseph%20gb.htm

Another
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=478286

Thanks for the replies. I wonder what that P.1K266 means?

Drew, that second gun would be the very same one.

Any idea of what the value would be? The second example was asking if it was worth $650, but the guy never got an answer. Are these really that low value? Looks like a lot of gun for that price and wood was outstanding. 3 way lock up was nice and tight, everything fit well and was in at least good condition.

1.266 kilograms barrel weight at proof testing

Value? What does the gun look like?

The P 1K266 was what skeettx was saying is the weight of the barrels in grams at proof or 1,266 grams which would convert to about 2.79 lbs (2lb 13oz).
The 20.6 which he stated was the chamber diameter converts to .811" & is taken just ahead of the rim seat. This will likely give a diameter at the juncture of the chamber with cone of about .797". Current SAAMI specs call for a minimum diameter at that point of .798" but it is not at all unusual to find older guns with tighter chambers.

Yes, of course, condition is everything. Wood was borderline spectacular, with a newly fitted, but not finished red rubber pad (edges are not rounded and screw plugs are still proud). It could use about 3 more coats of finish in my opinion. No cracks or significant scratched, dents or chips and very good wood-metal fit. Checkering was very good condition, with really nicely done border that is just visible on one of those that Drew listed.

Twenty-eight inch barrels are about 50% original bluing, Almost certainly rehoned. Seller claims IM/F chokes. The fences, with side clips are deeply engraved and the lock plates are nicely bordered with one small patch of rust (I think it is rust) that is not deep or pitted on the right side.

Lock up seems perfect.

Double triggers. Ejectors.

The engraving and condition seem essentially identical to the one that Drew posted and can also be seen here
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=478286

Yes, I'm now certain that the gun I saw is the same gun as the second gun Drew linked to.

If there's no pitting and the gun is in spec and safe to fire, it looks like a great deal in my humble opinion. Any idea on the overall weight?

I would guess that you know a good gun when you see it. Trust your instincts. $650 seems very fair.

fallschirmjaeger - it is listed at 6# 7 oz. Perfect I think.

BrentD:


Could you pleasure us w/ an image of the water-table & the area forward of the flats?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I wish I could, but I did not take pictures of it, and it is not easily accessible. Lighting was horrendous too.

However.... The pictures you want are in this thread that Drew linked to. It is the same shotgun. Not the same model, the same, exact gun. https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=478286

Interesting w/ all of Joseph Cap's advertising on it. I wonder to which Liege mechanic the stamp of the VF24 belongs? Gustav Vendrix had a Modell Nr. 107 that was very similar. It could represent a VF mechanic also.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

If the barrel weight is less than 2% of as marked at the time of proof, the gun was considered out of proof by the Liege proof house



As Mike observed it was reproved after barrel honing.
RIGHT originally 18.3 mm = .720" opened to 18.4 = .724 with choke 17.4 = .685 = .039 or Full.
LEFT originally 18.2 = .717 with choke 17.3 = .681. Opened to 18.3 = .720 with choke 17.1 = .673 = .047 or XF.

The current bore dimensions and wall thickness are critical.

The gun could be an excellent value. The problem with pricing is that used by not abused Field grade Belgian and U.S. maker guns are coming out of closets in droves as "the greatest generation" passes, and the number of those interested in vintage doubles is diminishing.

Drew, what is considered reasonable minimal wall thickness? I'm assuming in the lower 1/3 or so of the barrel is where it is more critical. I don't know much about this subject.

More than you probably want to know here Brent
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZIo0y746UsSRZIgRuuxwAbZjSBHitO_EanvwLYc-kGA/edit

It depends on the tensile strength of the barrels. Post-WWI tubes by reputable makers were usually low alloy AISI 1040 with a tensile strength (but not corrosion resistance) just a bit less than 4140 chrome moly.

Two things immediately jump out here.

1) BrentD doesn't even know a Belgian proof mark when he sees it.

2) BrentD has the nerve to use Dave's DoubleGunShop website to inquire about this gun. But he has repeatedly criticized Dave, and lobbied all of you to withhold financial support for this site.

What kind of person shits on you, and then uses your website to seek help?

Drew, thanks again. That's a big help.