Reports of poor numbers of birds for the 12-th, the traditional start of the hunting season in GB makes me think about poor bird numbers in my past and perhaps future. I watched as quail numbers twice went from hanging on, in decent numbers, to almost zero anywhere I went. I’ve seen ducks and geese numbers change so drastically that most of my hunting friends quit hunting them, never to return. Sad really. A few of them did turn to Turkeys and deer whose numbers seem to be ever increasing. Snow geese as well seem to be ever increasing.
It’s not just birds who have numbers have declined. I have seen one type of fish after another go from plentiful to almost zero and a few back. Oysters go from trillions and trillions to just a few, in spots. Most declines were decades before we ever heard about global warming or climate change. Back then we were concerned about global cooling and a possible mini ice age. Yeah, funny now isn’t it.
Some of us went to shooting clay targets as a way to keep shooting. But tricky as a clay target can be, it does not hold a candle to a Black Duck, who makes endless passes just out of range, or the sounds of teal buzzing your decoys just before daylight. I miss the morning knowing I would see 20 coveys. Many of my sharpest hunting memories are the ones when the birds won. Perhaps we all will live long enough to see just a few make it back so they can win a few more times.
I’m sitting in an airport on the way to Inverness as I write. The red grouse population volatility doesn’t look good. While this year might be a bust, I hope that next year the stocks rebound.
The northern economy In the rural areas, depends on the visiting wing shots and the tourism industry. I’d hate to be making all of those refunds the outfitters are making these days.
Greg,
I hope that your shoot turns out well in spite of the forecast of the birds. See you when you return, hopefully with some great pictures and stories. Let us know how that new pair of guns performs!
Karl
Where Where is "GB"?
As for declining bird or other numbers get used to it. Been going on for quite a while now and it's going to get worse, much worse.
Where Where is "GB"?
As for declining bird or other numbers get used to it. Been going on for quite a while now and it's going to get worse, much worse.
Why everyone knows that GB refers to Green Bay. And the glorious 12th obviously refers to Aaron Rodgers jersey number. So put on your cheese head hat and just go hunting in Wisconsin before Trump and Putin, global warming, or lead shot makes all the little birdies there extinct.
Ky needs to use some of that lube on his brain....
Where Where is "GB"?
As for declining bird or other numbers get used to it. Been going on for quite a while now and it's going to get worse, much worse.
I would assume GB in this thread is Great Britain.
I do see posts mentioning "Glorious 12th", "Red Grouse", & "Inverness"........
Yesterday afternoon about 4:00 I rode out to the Sunflower/Corn field I'm planning to shoot opening day Saturday after next. Clean strips have been harrowed, but the corn's still standing. We'll take a silage cutter into the corn next week and throw the cuttings into the clear strips. Sunflowers are ready. I saw four birds. Uh Oh!...Geo
Geo, the fields over where Floyd lives have always held a bunch of birds this time of the year. Two years ago, there over 1500 birds in the fields. Last year, 500. He's only seen a handful this year. Reason? A few years ago, a nearby landowner clearcut 1200 acres of pines which were prime nesting and roosting areas. Last winter, a corporate landowner nearby, cleared about a 1000 acres of trees to prepare old ricefields for wetlands mitigation. This area is about 2 miles from the dove fields. These fields are the nearest food aplenty sources to the where the birds nested and roosted when they had the trees to do so. It's going to be interesting to see what happens in a couple of weeks. Gil
Resurrecting this thread
As I prepare to leave Perthshire, I can only say this
Shooting driven Red Grouse in the Scottish Highlandis is one of the most sublime wingshooting experiences a man can have.
What is the grouse hunting season over there? Are you talking about driven grouse or hunting them over dogs?
I have an opportunity to spend some time over there next year and ...
Resurrecting this thread
As I prepare to leave Perthshire, I can only say this
Shooting driven Red Grouse in the Scottish Highlandis is one of the most sublime wingshooting experiences a man can have.
I feel the exact same way about hunting grouse in the Sandhills and Chukar hunting up in the mountains.
What is the grouse hunting season over there? Are you talking about driven grouse or hunting them over dogs?
I have an opportunity to spend some time over there next year and ...
Very, very $$$$.
JR
You can do either;
'Walked up" is shooting over a dog and is pretty much always a small day, perhaps 10 brace of birds more or less. The walking is quite challenging as the ground can be steep and rough in places and heather isn't the easiest walking surface. It is only for those with fairly good walking fitness. Often arranged with a small team of 4 to 6 persons.
"Driven" tends to be bigger days for often 8 to 10 persons. These can be from perhaps 50 brace up to maybe 200 brace (in a good year). It is always expensive, and usually VERY expensive.
Poor weather is always a significant risk as the moors are open and get the worst of the British weather.
Both types are considered to be among the 'best' shooting experiences because the whole experience is quite challenging and done is a beautiful wild landscape.
Watch “crazy driven grouse” to get an idea
We did not double gun but the same intensity was there
It will shake you in your shoes
CZ, We are envious of your experience. Many of us enjoy hunting or collecting English guns which were created for the sport of driven shooting. The hunt in which you are participating is their “natural habitat”. I hope you have a great day and a wonderful experience. Tease us with a picture or two from the moors!
If I had ever gotten rich I would have enjoyed that experience...Geo
They don’t put pockets in a casket
I have enough footage to drown us all in drool
Took a left and right out front, right at 30 yards in a stiff breeze,with a Dickson round action that was lent to me, lovely thing, the line was mesmerized and cheering.
My best shots were in front of the gallery of beaters, out and across the back.
I’m not accustomed to shooting downhill going away birds with a crowd behind me. As I had trained a fair bit, I had my loader tell me “Put it under his chin” as I would mount, and I tumbled them at strong distances for the gallery.
I shot within 10% of my abilities all three days. It was the run of a lifetime.
You can do either;
'Walked up" is shooting over a dog and is pretty much always a small day, perhaps 10 brace of birds more or less. The walking is quite challenging as the ground can be steep and rough in places and heather isn't the easiest walking surface. It is only for those with fairly good walking fitness. Often arranged with a small team of 4 to 6 persons.
"Driven" tends to be bigger days for often 8 to 10 persons. These can be from perhaps 50 brace up to maybe 200 brace (in a good year). It is always expensive, and usually VERY expensive.
Poor weather is always a significant risk as the moors are open and get the worst of the British weather.
Both types are considered to be among the 'best' shooting experiences because the whole experience is quite challenging and done is a beautiful wild landscape.
"Walk up" sounds like what I'm looking for. 10 brace is way more than plenty.
In rough terms, what does a day of this cost and how might one go about finding a way to arrange it? I might need to borrow/rent a decent gun as I will already have a gun with me (of the wrong type) and my baggage will be more than maxed out.
"Walk up" sounds like what I'm looking for. 10 brace is way more than plenty.
In rough terms, what does a day of this cost and how might one go about finding a way to arrange it? I might need to borrow/rent a decent gun as I will already have a gun with me (of the wrong type) and my baggage will be more than maxed out.
[/quote]
I can't really answer your question because although I do it every year (other than this year and one other due to low stocks) I have always been a guest on a party arranged by friends where we rent a whole property, lodge and all, for a week. Usually about 10 brace of grouse are included in the overall 'fee'.
There is some information here
https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/grouse-shooting/walked-up-grouse-2-76565 but I suggest you spend time on Google and work from there. People like these are one source
http://www.sportinglets.co.uk/ but I can't give personal recommendations as I have not used them.
For walked up, a light 12 is a good choice, but it needs to fit you because the shooting can be quick and instinctive.
I work for a Sporting Estate in England as the Riverkeeper. The same employer owns this Estate in Scotland and can arrange what you are looking for. Click on the link and then at the top click on 'Sporting'.
http://www.glenmuick.com/house-of-glenmuick/ The Estate borders that of the Queen at Balmoral. I have been up there a few times for breaks. Nice part of the world and accessible from Aberdeen. The Scottish Government has policies in force that may screw up shooting in the future so don't delay and be disappointed. Lagopus.....
And don’t expect to use Scottrail with firearms
New policy there is no firearms on their trains
I had to store mine at the end of my shooting
Though
I did get my pic taken at platform 5 in Perth with my gear pile
I know it was a hokey idea😁
...Though
I did get my pic taken at platform 5 in Perth with my gear pile
I know it was a hokey idea😁
Not hokey; history lives. We are all looking forward to your pictures. It is something most of us will never experience otherwise. Post'em now or save for the 2018 Guns&Game thread...Geo
Agree with Geo, again. It lifts me to read of a member's open enthusiasm for the sport. While communities tear down monuments of our history, here's enjoyment of our sport as it has been for centuries, right or wrong, justified or otherwise. I believe right and justly so. Don't worry about the hokey. It's always been part of it.
CZ is somewhere in here at Perth:
Post'em now or save for the 2018 Guns&Game thread...Geo
That thread better come soon. I intend to have pics by Saturday.
I am intending to shoot in a match at Bisley, 25-31 August next year. What I do on either side of those dates is entirely up on the air. Hunting grouse over dogs, whether in Scotland or somewhere else on the island, would certainly rank at the very top of my list. I have not a clue if I can afford it, or if grouse hunting is even allowed so early in the fall.
I am certainly open to suggestions.
I am certainly open to suggestions.
I think they also make whisky there. Might want to check that out.
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King, for a second I thought you said don’t worry about the hockey. Blasphemy!
Golf? Go to Great Britain for golf? Who would do that. I shoot rifles.
Whiskey is fine I suppose, but Scotch Ales rule. I'll be checking that out.
Maybe try to catch a fish or two, but I suspect that will be out of my price range.
Grouse shooting starts on August 12th. so your visit is o.k. for that. Bisley is down in Surrey and a long way from grouse moors which are in the North of England and Scotland. Walked up grouse shooting is affordable. If going to Scotland check out the link I posted earlier in this thread. Trout fishing with the fly is quite inexpensive on both rivers and stillwaters. Some rivers don't have day tickets. Fishing in England requires a license obtainable via any Post Office and they can issue one day licenses at little cost. Annual license is only about £25. In Scotland you don't need a license as we English subsidise it for them. License fees go towards conservation via the Environment Agency. Check out wood pigeon shooting which has a 365 day a year season as does the season for shooting muntjac deer (no bag limit and quite inexpensive); plenty of those around Surrey area. Have a look at the web site for BASC
https://basc.org.uk/ they may be able to assist. Lagopus.....
From this distance in Nova Scotia (New Scotland), England subsidizing Scotland for licenses seems a good deal to me. Where would England be if the Scots weren't invited down to make educational institutions with few peers in the world? Same happened in Nova Scotia. The Scots in northern part of province were asked to make an Athens of the dirty military garrison of Halifax. Halifax isn't Athens although the educational centre of Atlantic Canada today.
Should have rotated the image 90 degrees
That’s a Miroku 20
Young grouse are great to eat roast. Old grouse may need longer cooking to avoid toughness.
Lovely birds in a lovely setting, thanks for showing Glad you got to make the trip CZ...Geo
CZ,
More pictures please!
Karl
From this distance in Nova Scotia (New Scotland), England subsidizing Scotland for licenses seems a good deal to me.
Once a Socialist, always a Socialist, eh King?
I am shocked to see our "Grey Man" CZ making such ostentatious posts. Perhaps Trump's tax cuts made the trip to Scotland possible??? I actually expected Grouse Ortolan photos!
Looks like a wonderful time in spite of the low bird numbers. Glad to see you had a good trip. Thinking about something similar in the next year or so myself.
Steve
Maybe, maybe not. You won't notice me.
I am quite content to go unnoticed in times of civil strife. I embrace my lack of remarkability, my blandness bordering on invisibility. I am the hard boiled egg on white bread on a white tablecloth.
I am the English sparrow, the blackbird, and the anchovy, all wrapped into one. No one notices I've been there, before I am not.
I am the unremarkable "Grey man".
I have tested my lack of interest to others from time to time. Going so far as to introduce myself and make small talk. I leave people believing they were talking to themselves. I am they. Seldom do people remember me, or even care we met. I have almost completely perfected my frictionless path through group assemblies. I leave no footprints or distinguishable aroma's. My loudest tie is brown. My wildest vehicle is tan. The wheels are black. The windows are tinted dark. The mufflers are the quietest. The tire treads just M+S generics. I wear a grey baseball cap. A dark blue windbreaker. Loose tactical jeans. Sunglasses. No facial hair. No tats.
No one cares, and I go about my business.
Or maybe not. You won't really remember if I was there or if you just thought I was.
It's all just grey.
Yah.............grey tweed, I guess.
SRH
Is that part of the fifty shades of grey?
Resurrecting this thread
As I prepare to leave Perthshire, I can only say this
Shooting driven Red Grouse in the Scottish Highlandis is one of the most sublime wingshooting experiences a man can have.
and Chukar hunting up in the mountains.
There will surface a pattern to my lack of significance. I suspect when these images are finished posting, that no one will even remember who posted them. Just jelly beans in a big pretty jar.
Dickson round action, re-furbished by Mackay-Brown.
I killed a few birds with it.
It was quite dynamic.
I didn't care for the entirely matte finish.
Who was that masked man???
There will surface a pattern to my lack of significance.
You’re Canadian?
Pretty funny how fast that woman flew back from Europe.
I didn't care for the entirely matte finish.
Nothing a couple white line spacers wouldn’t fix.
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Alabama Song
https://youtu.be/3I3bpm_djzs
Interesting photo.
Someone will ask "What is it like to shoot Red grouse over a heather backdrop?" This image will do much to explain it.
It's not flat.
The ground before you undulates like the ocean surf.
So, if you've ever shot sea ducks between the swells, that's a good start.
Now you see me, now you don't.
They are more or less at eye level.
But then, because they want to increase the sport, they tipped the sea bed on a 40 degree angle, and then, cut the butts into the hillside level and flat.
So, this image was shot dead level out front, zoomed in to about 35 yards, on a fellow picking my birds. I was in a end butt for this drive, and he had been "Flanking" to my right, so several birds were laying near his post.
So, in some sort of summary, the shooting is like teal, or Chukar, between the waves, tipped on a skew, either uphill, or down and away.
Many of my shots bristled the feathers across their backs, causing me to have my loader remind me in mid mount, "Under the chin, under the chin". Even what appear as straight on shots are actually downhill curlers. Very frustrating for a "cover the bird" kind of guy.
From my sick bed.
Lovely photos, the weather appears to have cooperated. No chechering on the Dickson? Interesting...I think it is pretty, but I wonder If your grip was secure well shooting? What would your Guess be as to the ratio of English guns to others as well as the ratio of side-by-sides to over and unders?
Looking quite good for ditch dummies in SD. Northland Outdoors shows a 47% increase from 2017.
Owen, The team of guns changed each day. Driven Red grouse is expensive, and, with the collapse of the stocks this year, many people had their days canceled.
In terms of what sort of interesting guns were used, I photographed a Purdey SxS, a trio of FAMAR's OU's, a pair of Longthorne Hesketh OU's, Mackay-Brown, Dickson, AyA #1's, and my traveling guns, the Miroku's.
Most were 12's. 32 gram English 5's. the chosen load for most.
I, shot Eley Zenith Copper plated 28 gram 5's w/ fibre wads.
But the thing most fascinating to me about the "Guns", is that they were legitimate, devoted, wingshots. Wigshooting plays an important role in all of their lives. It was a treat to be surrounded by kindred spirits.
I suppose to a degree, the economic bar is high enough to ensure this to some extent.