I'm not really qualified to comment on the Wisconsin thread. WNV exists in Ontario but real evidence of its effect on wild grouse populations is lacking. I did however enjoy the anecdotal reports from some of the posters there. So here's mine.
I hunt upland in south/central Ontario and have done so since a kid. In terms of northness, we are similar latitude to Minneapolis. I have had a woodlot for 20 years which is mostly former pasture and is as good as it gets for grouse and woodcock habitat. I hunt it but quite lightly -never more than a few birds a year. I have other options and this was more my ace in the hole.
My report on 2017 is we started spring with lots of grouse. It was looking to be a great year. By fall however when there should have been 5x as many, the population was largely unchanged. At least in this small locale the clutch survival seems to have been nonexistent. I would say there are as many blue jays or more than ever. Ravens and crows I think are stable. What did happen last year was rain. Lots and lots of rain. 20 days straight at one point. And bugs! The worst season of biting bugs I have ever experienced. Not trying to assign a causal relationship to anything here, just making an observation.
So I did not shoot any birds last year as the numbers made me feel they needed a break. In fact never took a shotgun out and instead hunted deer only.
Spring 2018 proved that a handful of birds made it through the winter. I have the feeling that barring some catastrophe they should have good success as my theory is all are older experienced birds. Spending this coming weekend there so will do another informal census on this years broods.
As regards woodcock, the decline continues in my area. I can always find woodcock but numbers are fewer each year it seems.
Would be interested in hearing what other bird hunters are experiencing.
JB

grouse are few and far between in the mid atlantic and new england states, except for pockets in northern maine...we are infested with the predatory wild turkey menace...are there turkeys in your grouse woods? if so, that is not good a good sign...

I grew up in Southeastern New York and learned to shoot on Ruffed Grouse. Birds were plentiful but that was over fifty years ago. There was a constant dwindling of numbers until there were none. I haven't seen one in the area I grew up in in over twenty years.

Lots of turkeys and deer though if you care for such things.

Dennis

Ed,
there are no turkeys on my land but are encroaching. Slightly further south turkeys are everywhere. I can't think turkeys can be good for grouse just like relatively recent arrival of turkey vultures was not good for ravens or crows. 40 years ago there were basically no turkeys in this province but since then has been a very successful joint Canada/US reintroduction effort with numerous agencies and volunteer groups. This was an extremely productive undertaking and the introduction of open seasons was greatly enjoyed by a lot of hunters. Now all those birds are Ontario-born and they're here to stay and spreading further.
Whether that is bad for grouse on my patch I really don't know but would rather not find out.

I never know until I am out there. I hunt public land, am blessed to have a lot of access all over the state, but, some of it is off limits until hunting season. I don't typically hunt the openers of either season, preferring to let a month or so go by.
When the corn is still standing, it is mostly a waste of time to hunt pheasants, and if you have more than about 50% of the leaves up on the trees, the same is pretty much true with grouse. Hearing grouse flush without seeing them isn't my idea of fun. Pheasant hunting, later in the season, without a dog, is mostly hiking, and has been that way my whole life.

Minnesota was hit very hard with heavy, flooding spring rains two years ago, pretty much from the Iowa border to the Canadian border. Just north of the metro area of Mpls/St. Paul, I got 13 inches of rain on one night, 6 inches on another, and that storm ran the entire state, south to north. I expect most of five years will pass before that event is not a factor in the bird numbers. I only hunt pheasants and grouse, but, I think I can legally shoot 5 Canada geese every damn day during the season, they, in addition to deer and turkeys, are in plentiful, pestilent supply, even in areas outside their historic range, and, are doing well in the metro area. I have seen turkeys and deer on the edge of downtown Mpls. Geese, are everywhere, including downtown. I can't even bring myself to shoot Canadas anymore, so many of them just eat off golf courses, and taste like whatever fertilizer or bug control chemicals are being applied when they are there. The same thing happens with morel mushrooms, by the way, if you are interested.

I'll let you know. Pockets of birds are your friend in times like these. I know very few hunters who will put in the effort to find birds these days.

Best,
Ted

I can't imagine what it's like to have a real upland bird to hunt in beautiful hardwood and mixed stand forests on a frosty morning when the leaves are falling...
JR

John Roberts,

Come spend some time in our northern tier Pa forest, and do a little Grouse and Woodcock hunting in the 2nd week of October. See why we call Potter County God's Country. The leaves will be turning and God's greatest show will be in full evidence, bring a good dog with ya, the Grouse and Woodcock hunting will be challenging. Don't forget a fine double gun and a goodly amount of shotgun shells! Drop me a PM and we will arrange for you to do more than imagine it!

RGD/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

My buddy Ken Graft being presented his 1st big Trophy Grouse by Pine Creek Daisy, in God's Country. On a beautiful sunny November day. Ken had the big bird mounted, for his Shooting Star Gun Shop. It is truly a Trophy Grouse.

We have two of them, JR--if you count woodcock. And a whole lot of public land on which to hunt them. Hoping for a better season this year than last. I didn't kill many grouse last year, but I shot all of them within maybe 10 minutes of my house. Not that my particular location is anything special, other than being surrounded by public land on which quite a bit of logging takes place.

I'm in eastern Ontario, JBLondon, and grouse populations around the property seem similar to last year, just occasional birds. I haven't seen any woodcock this year, though.

Steve, you and John met in June at the SxS meet in Oshawa...both of you showing some fantastic hammer and hammer pinfire guns. Just in case you didn't recognize each other.

Nice to see a brood of sharptails in my prairie restoration plot.

I did, it's always great to match faces and names. The SxS meet was a great opportunity to start new friendships, and I look forward to the next event. And many more pinfires to come...

used to hunt potter county pa game lands, during the eighties and nineties...glad to know some birds are still left there...

[/quote]

I did, it's always great to match faces and names. The SxS meet was a great opportunity to start new friendships, and I look forward to the next event. And many more pinfires to come...[/quote]
Stephen, I was the good-looking one if that helps. Haha.
Happy birthday, James. Mine is tomorrow but only 56, not quite old like carbon-14 old.

Very kind of you John. Thank you.

I got a laugh today because I got a voice mail best wishes from my BIL, who made the point that seeing as I am now 60, my life is essentially done and so worthless, so I should be out risking it by skydiving or engaging in some other stupid activity. I told him I'm just going to play with guns.

You're looking good for 56. I wouldn't have thought you were a day over 55!

James, happy birthday. Gil

ed good,

Potter/Tioga is still God's Country with plenty of Spooky Grouse and great gunning. The Woodcock hunting has not changed much either, I am just getting older and can not walk as far in the big forest any more.

It is getting lonely on the mountain however, many of our original Grouse Camp members are now doing their Grouse hunting in God's never ending forest. Got to admit I miss the men badly, we had a great group for many many years. Ken Graft and my brother Kurt are the youngsters of the Grouse Camp now, both are over 50, my nephew who shows up when he can get away from work, is in his early 30's.

ed if you get up this way let me know, you can walk the Grouse woods with us.

Ryman Gun Dog/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

One of my Grouse on the drive way to the log cabin.

I always get a kick out of these grouse threads. There hasn't been one around here (South GA) since the ice age, if there were any then? The only one I ever saw was standing in a gravel road in prairie Saskatchewan of all places. Plenty of sharptails but just that one ruffed grouse.

I never missed the grouse because we had bobwhite quail, but now that they're gone I think grouse hunting must be a wonderful thing. Bucket list item anyhow...Geo

Dave, you are relatively new here. Ed makes his anti hunting views known regularly. He won't be joining you for a hunt no matter how politely you invite him.

dave: thanks for invite...would enjoy a visit to a place of fond memories...and to meet you and your doggie...

and as for canvasback and his rude personal attack, fact is...i am 75 now and have seen too much of death... as such, i take no pleasure in killing anything anymore...

geo: grouse hunting is a wonderful thing for hunting man and bird dog...

many good books have been written over the years on the subject...two of my favorites were written in the nineties by two different authors, both with the same last name of fergus...

"a hunter's road", by jim fergus...

and

"a rough shooting dog", by charles fergus

Ed, care to explain what I said that was rude?

Maybe speaking on his behalf, and acting a bit like keeth...just say'n

Wow, what a rude personal attack from iittle dla (sic), the Mayor of Munchkinland. I wonder why Gladys Kravitz, our Thread Moderator, hasn't made any comments about this totally off-topic thread diversion which has absolutely nothing to do with grouse populations?

And James (canvasback), I hope you had a nice birthday.

Says the guy speaking on Ed’s behalf.

I said nothing rude......I think however, Ed doesn’t like having his hypocrisy exposed so baldly. A purveyor of hunting guns who rails against hunting to hunters on a site dedicated to hunting guns. If not sitting quietly and accepting the rank hypocrisy is acting like Keith, I’m fine with that.

I don’t take kindly to being threatened with legal action for speaking the truth, dal. I call that an attempt at bullying. And so Ed will just have to accept that my comments towards him may have a bit of an edge now and then.

BTW, thanks Keith for the best wishes.

whatever

Passive-aggressive much?

If you aren't prepared to back up your position, maybe you just don't have one? I can't remember the last time I engaged you dal, not sure why you feel the need to engage me.

Gentlemen,

One of the reasons I joined the Double Gun Forum is the civility, with very few personal attacks.

ed good,
I can understand how a man limits his Grouse hunting because of his age. I just cut way back with my Grouse Dog training business this past year, I want to now due more hunting with my friends and less gun dog training.

In fact one of my good friends Cpt Denny Boyce has now given up all his bird hunting, because of his weak legs. Last season was his final Grouse hunt. I almost had to carry the big guy off the Grouse mountain. This Fly Fishing season he sat and read in the Log Cabin. I will miss his company in the woods and Trout streams badly. He is now 86, I am 70 and will continue for as many years as possible.

ed I will never equivocate an animals death with that of a human however. Even my Father and Grandfather who both saw even more death in WWI & WWII than I did in Viet Nam, still Grouse hunted, I do the same. I can understand your thinking however.

My Grouse hunting is not about killing it's about the great dog work and the beautiful mountains, taking the beautiful bird is important however it's just a part of our family tradition. There are times we go out and never shoot a Grouse, it's all part of they way God makes things happen.

Ryman Gun Dog/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Unfortunately civility here while practiced by the preponderance of the members is not universal. Your best weapon against the bother is to identify those who decline to be civil and use the ignore feature. It is regrettable, but necessary if you do not want to hear their agendas, anger, and otherwise distractions. Many good people have argued for civility without result.

Soon, if not already, you will see the patterns and note those persons you would rather not read. I do note that some are only occasionally bothersome and otherwise post some good data.

As I age I find dog work is almost as import as watching younger hunters stumble along and fall in love with the outdoors as they find their way hunting. This Fall I get to add a new hunter to my family. My middle son has a serious female interest, who is as outdoors friendly as he could ever ask for. In fact she now has one of my Ruger 28’s which she has claimed as her own. So maybe better than watching a new pup develop, or a son or daughter fall in love with hunting will be a future daughter in-law to our hunting and shooting family.

Only thing I need to do now is add another black lab to our family. Perhaps a small female who thinks that hunting is life itself. I love pups.

lets all try to stay on topic and be civil to each other and refrain from personal attack...

anybody wish to comment on the fergus books?

for example, on page 69 of "a rough shooting dog", there begins the best piece of writing about grouse hunting that i have ever read...

it describes an encounter between three hunters and a grouse...

the first hunter is the author... the second hunter is his springer spaniel...and the third hunter is a hawk, high above watching it all...if you want to know what happens, read the book...

and dave, if i lived where you do, i too would be out with a good dog, puttin up birds...might even shoot at one once in a while to make the dog happy...

Ed, would you like me to post some QUOTES of your own personal attacks? Or would you prefer to see some of the anti-hunting and anti-gun posts you have frequently made here on a Firearms Forum in order to Troll and disrupt things?

ANTI-GUN POSTS by ED GOOD

Or perhaps you'd like to share with everyone how many times you have been booted from this Forum for your sick and threatening behavior? canvasback wasn't just making up shit about you.

Our friend Ed did it again!





And here's yet another... Ed's post # 407727



The last one was one of my favorites because even after repeatedly seeing it, your good friend and fellow anti-2nd Amendment Troll King Brown has repeatedly denied ever seeing any anti-gun sentiment posted on this Forum.

I was also amused by Old Colonel a.k.a. Gladys Kravitz' hypocritical plea to the new contributor Ryman Gun Dog. I am sure that Gladys wants everyone to IGNORE the folks she disapproves of, because if they actually pay attention, they might begin to see some of the little games and highly selective civility played by F.A.G.'s (Fake Ass Gentlemen), FUDD's, and sneaky little worms.

Bless you Keith, I am happy to have provided you with amusement, however you are factually incorrect.

1. Nothing I stated was hypocritical.
2. I did not tell Ryman who he should ignore, I clearly state he can identify for
Himself who he should ignore.
3. I long ago gave up asking for civility, as I realize some will forever refuse any semblance of it.

Lastly you demonstrate clearly with your posts the quality of your thoughts. Your wisdom and qualities are aptly depicted in your posts. I continue to wish you and everyone in Pulaski well.

keet, no, i will not participate in your trashing of this fine thread...if we all stay on topic, maybe it will evolve into a discussion of favored double guns for grouse shooting...

Gladys Kravitz, aka old colonel, once again, it is you who is factually incorrect. Once again, you are demonstrating your inability to comprehend what I have posted, and even after QUOTING my words, you go on to twist them.

I had made a point-by-point detailed rebuttal to your reply. I almost submitted it, but then decided to just delete it. It would be wasted on someone as ignorant and mentally disturbed as you. I've tried that route before, but you are simply too stupid, and you only see what you wish to see. You certainly didn't post in this Thread to contribute anything about grouse populations. So just console yourself with the notion that you are good, civil, mannerly, and anything other than a tight-assed pin-headed hypocrite.

And please keep your disingenuous blessings. They are as fake as you are.

One member believes that the be-all and end-all of our humanity is guns. It's his right. To declaim others rhetorically and without reason who think otherwise is wrong.

Members enjoying the use of firearms, having different opinions of regulations and their use, have shown no disloyalty to our fraternity or governance by their comments.

It's "the American way." My way or the highway doesn't work.

Hasn't 'their' comments only ever been about 'their' feelings and nothing more. Wouldn't you agree that 'their' policy loyalty aligns with 'their' vote? I don't know if a great game bird would recognize an international border if it were a windmill going full tilt an inch in front of its beak, eh? Why prod frat brothers to choose an agenda, not to mention a nation?

Seen this movie, already. The Gun Control act of 1968 taught the NRA to give not an inch, and they (we) never will again. The 1968 act made things more difficult and unreasonable for the law abiding, and never, ever, prevented a single crime. Because, that was the intention.
My way, or, the highway, with regard to constitutional amendments,is a fine mantra.

Best,
Ted

Not at all surprising to see you jump in King, to defend your fellow anti-gun troll Ed Good, and your dysfunctional little pen pal Gladys.

Despite your curious and insane proclamations and denials, calls for disarming the American public and support for anti-gunners actually is very disloyal to "our fraternity" of gun owners. We all know that is not your fraternity, which is composed of Liberal Left Socialist loons who work relentlessly to deprive us of our 2nd Amendment rights. It would be nice, and civil, if you could offer a shred of proof that "One member believes that the be-all and end-all of our humanity is guns."

But you can't, and you still can't stop lying.

Thanks for chiming in King, even though your insanity has nothing to do with grouse populations. This will be your legacy here... your longstanding defense of Liberal Left Democrat anti-gunners, and your anti-NRA, anti-2nd Amendment, and anti-gun rhetoric. It doesn't play well on a firearms enthusiasts forum, and if you had any sense at all, you'd get that.

For some of our new members and visitors who haven't see your stuff:













Then there's this little gem where King attempts to link our Constitutional RKBA to an insane allegation that we "accept" mass murder and mass school shootings:



But only you could see your own anti-gun rhetoric, and calls for disarming Americans by your friend Ed Good, and actually say this:



When lies and dishonesty become as reflexive and second nature as breathing, you'll have that.

Of course, there's lots more of the same sort of crap you posted here. Your weird little pen pal friend Gladys, aka old colonel, thinks it's wrong of me to QUOTE you. She thinks your legacy here should be something other than your actual words. But it was you who said this:



Maybe you should tell Gladys how proud you are to carry the anti-gunners ball for them.

Actually, if history is any judge, the "my way or the highway" attitude served the United States of America very well, starting several hundred years ago.

The USA is a unique experiment in nation building. Everyone, essentially, is from somewhere else. Their culture is one they created recently (last 200 years) not one that evolved over 1500 years as is the case almost everywhere else in the world.

And "their way" caused them to rocket to the top of the pile in terms of social, political, economic and military might and influence and become the envy of the world. Some might foolishly argue with my use of the word "envy". But no other nation in the world is close in terms of chosen destination for emigration and no other nation in the world has it's society followed and copied like the US.

Yeah, I'd say "my way or the highway" works quite well for the US. That's why there is the expression "The American Way".

another potentially fine thread...now hijacked...

Gentlemen,

I did not mean to turn this thread into a Gun Rights issue for sure. Being this is a double gun forum I took it that all members agreed that owning a good bird Gun was just a fact of life.

However let me advise all members of just where I stand. I am one of the original members of Charlton Heston's NRA Speakers Bureau, a life member of the NRA and still speak from time to time. I took an oath to protect the US Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic, and enforce the UCMJ as a US Army CID Special Agent. I like civil knowledgable conversations with other sportsman no matter their views. Speaking against the NRA to me is a waste of time, People kill People, guns are a tool like any other, except they provide the means to our countries freedom. The 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution is the law of the land, I remind everyone of my oath.

Grouse numbers have been falling in most places because of the limited logging practices and high predator numbers in most states, including ours here in Pa. I am also an RGS member, I use to be a RGS Sponsor, guide and spokesman, however I am just a regular member now, due to the internal politics of the RGS organization. Having been a member sense the early 60's I have watched RGS evolve into a complete Conservation Organization, rather than just using Conservation as a tool, to make sure that Grouse numbers were always high enough for us Sportsman to Hunt. The organization's original charter mandate has been hi-jacked and made into a Conservation Group. Many of the old time RGS Grouse hunting members have quit the RGS organization, including former executives, because of this evolution. I dropped out for a while myself, then rejoined as a regular year to year member.

The latest unproven WNV scare was used by the PGC to shrink Grouse season in Pa, ending the season just before Christmas. To their credit RGS did not support the season change, without actual scientific proof that the birds were being effected by WNV in the wild. IMO the PGC made a very bad move, limiting the Grouse season, especially for the small towns needing sportsman money to keep their businesses solvent.

Bill Palmer our long time Pa Professional Grouse Biologist recommended the Grouse season be extended into February, sighting the small numbers of actual Grouse hunters and that the PGC should due more of the logging that had been promised. Bill Palmer had completed a Grouse study in Potter County some years before, that proved Sport Grouse hunting had no effect on Grouse populations. In fact the open for hunting section of the forest ended up with a larger Grouse population than the closed to hunting section, that butted right up against it. Bill may have the only copy of this scientific test study still available, mine was destroyed in a home flood, the RGS's has disappeared from the HQ building some how. There maybe a copy of this RGS/PGC Grouse study buried away at the PGC, but God only knows were, doubt it will ever surface for public consumption. I learned thru experience that Grouse management is a very political entity, and the tests better show what the politicians want to see, especially here in Pa where they wanted Grouse season to be more like the New England Grouse season, ending around Christmas time. Politics has more of an effect on Grouse management and Grouse numbers, than most people realize.

Ryman Gun Dog
L.C. Smith Man

James, I can't imagine anyone having an issue with your opinion. Generosity, empathy, checks and balances, were distinctive characteristics of US development, all organic favouring democratic principles, electorates making decisions how they wanted to live, a collective responsibility---not one man's or the highway.

It's not often anyone declares "Grouse numbers have been falling in most places because of the limited logging practices . . " although it's gospel in responsible forest management. Many members of the landowner organization, of which I am president, manage their woodlands solely for wildlife to the FSC standard, appropriate clearcuts providing prime habitat for deer and grouse. Our association is fastest growing FSC group certificate in Canada, third and fourth in size and growth in North America. The provincial government turned over all its private lands responsibilities to our association in the eastern half of Nova Scotia. Forest policy is made by our members, not top-down by bureaucratic interference.

King Brown,

How are the Grouse numbers in Nova Scotia? My brother hunts up around Elk Lake each year with his best friend, what is it going to look like for this coming Grouse season?

Ryman Gun Dog
L.C. Smith Man

I haven't seen many grouse this year compared to others. It may be because of unprecedented wet spring and now heat wave for weeks. Everything seems tamped down. I'm not familiar with Elk Late---Lake? I have woods contacts everywhere and could check for numbers if I knew where it is. County good enough.

Just noted on another thread that keith seems of same mind concerning grouse habitat: " I always did much better in heavier cover, logged out areas and slashings, and especially in and near stands of wild grapevines. Grouse cover is variable, and the chain saw and logger is your friend." Arguably the most sophisticated forestry in eastern North America is on Irving-owned lands in New Brunswick and Maine---a magnet for upland grouse and woodcock hunters. An American buddy doesn't miss a year in NB with his dogs.

King Brown,

The spell checker got me again, I corrected it to Elk Lake.

Ryman Gun Dog
L.C. Smith Man

King Brown,

You made this statement earlier today:



For the second time, do you have a shred of evidence to back up that statement, or are you telling lies again?

I'm glad that you agree with me on what has been for me the most productive grouse cover. Too bad that we can't agree that support for anti-gunners is disloyal to the fraternity of gun owners, or that calls for disarming law abiding American citizens constitutes an anti-gun sentiment.

If supporting those Liberal Left Democrats who work so hard to infringe upon our Constitutional Gun Rights isn't anti-gun, then what is?

And is your woodlot management organization still engaging in large scale pulpwood clear cutting to feed the massive 60 megawatt biomass wood burning power plant at Point Tupper? I wonder what rocky mtn bill would say about the carbon footprint from that one?

King, hope you are enjoying the summer. Nice to hear from you.

keith, I'm trying to rally Members of Parliament to stiffen their spine on Trudeau's declaration to take a stand on handguns in 10 days.

Managing anything in life involves not looking for perfect solutions---because there aren't any. I know of no perfect party or person.

Guns are not the be-all or end-all in America. They're down the list of national issues. Parties are separated on the debate. There is no consensus.

Those who don't agree with your sentiments are not disloyal to our fraternity or governance. Dissent is part of our humanity. Lock-step, not.

As for calls of taking away firearms, my responsibility is to protest current federal handgun notions, as it was with the long-gun registry.

If that's bad in your mind, so be it.

(I believe this is first notice of the federal handgun prohibition on this forum.)

Things are good, James, thank you. Heat in the vineyard challenging. Trying to make a real dog out of my chocolate lab Master Hunter. Superb in the blind but the field trial owner left out some of the basics. I don't know what it is: the chocolate gene or the early training. I got him a year ago at four years and progress is slow but coming. Helluva dog, otherwise. Bred in Iowa. His name is Homer. So much on my plate with him decided not to change it!

Glad you got Homer, King. Must be keeping you busy. They are always a challenge, one way or another.

King, your claims concerning lobbying Members of Parliament about new anti-handgun laws are very questionable and troubling considering your prolonged anti-gun rhetoric and statements like this here:



Then there was yet another of your wild claims that the Individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms was a recent invention or NRA fabrication. You've repeated that nonsense many times... even after the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed the Original Intent of the Framers in the 2008 McDonald and Heller Decisions. This crap supporting the notion that the 2nd confers a collective, and not an Individual Right is right out of the anti-gunners playbook:






You said "The Supreme Court in 2008 overturned all mainstream legal and historical scholarship..." But you know that's a lie, and there is a vast amount of historical data, including the actual words of the Framers that demonstrated their Original Intent. And even after we've shown it to you, you still persist in the anti-gunner's lies.

I asked you to show us where anyone made the claim here that "guns are a be-all or end-all in America". But we know that was simply another lie from you. You also persist in the insane idea that support for those who would take away our gun rights is in no way disloyal to the gun fraternity. That kind of repeated denial goes beyond foolishness, and transcends over to pathological dishonesty.

You were repeatedly asked several years ago to show us what you did to help Canada get rid of the Long Gun Registry. You couldn't provide a single thing. If you are now suggesting you had anything to do with it, I can't imagine why I or anyone else would believe you. And I can't really imagine that you would do anything to fight restrictive gun legislation in Canada now.

But that opinion is merely based upon your own words and actions here. I mean, who could forget this propaganda, direct from our leading anti-gun organizations, that attempts to portray violent gang-bangers as children:



Or how about an Atheist invoking the name of Jesus and accusing law abiding U.S. Gun Owners of abandoning His teachings by defending their Gun Rights:



Or how about your lame-ass excuse for Obama violating his Oath of Office by attempting to gut the 2nd Amendment:



Some people don't like to see me using actual unedited QUOTES to reveal the truth. But as I said last week when SKB was once again attempting to say he was a Trump supporter... Pay no attention to what he says... Pay attention to what he actually does.

You know what you actually did here for many years King. You might fool Dave, the new guy who hasn't been here to see how you and Ed intentionally did all you could to disrupt the "PRESERVE THE 2ND AMENDMENT INFORMATIONAL THREAD" that used to be pinned to the top of the topics of this Forum, but not for long. You fooled a lot of people for a lot of years. But those days are over.

Nice try though. It all sounded so sincere until we got to see your own words from the past.

It's not so much that it's bad in anyone's mind, just that guns are not the be-all or end-all in Canada, eh. Particular with handguns, ain't that a protest not worth squandering the time on? Shouldn't we be weighing the tiny handful of target shooters vs. the rising gun play of urban freedom fighter gangs, and give justin a win on this one? It could be in the name of culture, diversity and tolerance, as opposed to how your neighbors (ou?) to the south may misinterpret it?

Congrats on the newish pup.

Yes, there hasn't been a peep in national media of looming federal action on handguns, perhaps allowing lower jurisdictions to make decisions on gun control, as it does in the US, with a plethora of rules and regulations notwithstanding the constitution one way or another. Little more than a week without response before Trudeau says he will make an announcement tells me our sporting fraternity doesn't see guns as the be-all and end-all of its interests. However gunners and target shooters feel about it, it's incredible that a collective interest that forced Ottawa to rid it of the registry is accepting such arbitrary action without consultation.

Trudeau is a leftist Liberal. I'll bet his attitudes towards firearms was well known before he was elected. And I'll bet you voted for him anyway King.

https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/guns/

If so, you are complicit in any gun control edicts he imposes or gets through Parliament. We all know you have other national interests, as we do also. It's just that yours are dominated by Leftist Socialist dogma, which is also decidedly anti-gun, and anti-hunting.

You will reap what you have sown King. But I don't really believe you care about the future of firearms freedom in Canada anyway. You've told us about a hundred times that it'll all be gone in a generation, and that our youth have no interest in it. Do you really expect anyone here to believe that you are suddenly becoming a pro-gunner after all of the anti-2nd Amendment rhetoric you've posted over the years?

I'm not the only one who has seen through your charade:

keith, you've always been generous to me by recirculating quotes. You see them as anti-gun while others may see your views as uncompromising and extremely partisan. It doesn't matter to the board what we think. Members often ask for less sophomoric invective and more enjoyable/informative conversations about guns. Any consideration by any one in this respect would be a significant improvement to Doublegun.

keet...as gun rights issues seem to be a favorite topic of yours, why not just start your own threads about gun rights issues, instead of rudely imposing your off topic views on the rest of us, who are just trying to have cordial discourse about a thread topic...such as "how are grouse populations in your area"...which has nothing to do with gun rights issues...

Gee King, you'd think I was the only one who has felt that you have a habit of posting anti-gun rhetoric and support for anti-gunners like Obama and Trudeau. Where was your concern for keeping the conversation strictly about double guns back when you posted all of the anti-gun crap I QUOTE from you?

Let me refresh your memory...

It wasn't me who started with any personal attacks in this thread. That started when Ed accused canvasback of rudeness for making an honest comment about Ed's anti-hunting views. See post #519907.

And it wasn't me who expanded the personal attacks. That was dla (sic) making an attack on me. See post #519913. Did you really expect me to not respond to crap from him and Ed???... especially when Ed was acting like he isn't guilty of personal attacks and threats, some severe enough that he has been suspended by Dave Weber no less than three times?

Some members here may not like to see that stuff. And I don't like to see anti-gun and anti-hunting rhetoric and support for anti-gunners. So it all cancels out, right? I don't read the things that don't interest me, and no one is holding a gun to anybody's head forcing them to read the anti-2nd Amendment QUOTES that I replay to remind folks that you probably aren't being honest when you pretend that you do not undermine our gun rights. Remember when you made this dishonest statement?:




I asked you several times for some shred of evidence that it was true. No reply because it was another lie from you. But when I say you are anti-gun, I take the time to back up my opinion and to provide proof in your own words. You claim that I misinterpret what you say, but when you repeatedly make the claim that our Individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a very recent invention by John Ashcroft or the NRA, there is no mistaking what you are saying.

And remember this too. Your contribution to this Thread had absolutely nothing to do with grouse populations, and neither did the comments from your weird hypocritical little pen-pal old colonel. So save the lecture on keeping the conversation strictly on double guns and bird hunting.