Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus

Posted by: pmag

Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 05/31/18 06:17 PM

Do you know anyone that can switch a safety lever on an R14 from the left side to the right side.

Thanks
Posted by: GLS

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/01/18 06:19 AM

Of the few 'smiths in the US that know their way around a Darne, here's one you can call and ask if it can be done:
http://jjperodeau.com/
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/01/18 06:42 AM

Wherez that darn X'spurt Mr. Sniffle'beAn when you need him...
Posted by: 2-piper

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/01/18 08:43 AM

Swapping sides of the safety on an R Darne is not a big deal. I swapped mine myself on a 16 ga Halifax' I found it to be even more objectionable that way, at least to me, so turned it back around. These would be great guns if they just had a convenient safety.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/01/18 04:54 PM

Greetings!
Pete, Gil has given you the name of the gunsmith I would recommend. What Miller has posted is somewhat true, depending on what Darne you have in hand:





The photo shows my R10, photographed and seen many times on this site, with the breech removed, flipped downside up, safety rotated down for clarity, and my tool of choice for R model Darne safety swapping pointing at the little flat spring that retains the safety. One only need pry up on the spring, pull out the safety lever, and reverse it while holding the spring up.
Then, the fun begins.
There is a detent, a flat spot filed into the shaft of the safety lever, that will no longer be under spring tension, so, you will have lost the indication of safety on or off. You can re-file another detent if the lever works out OK for you ergonomically, which, as Miller has also pointed out, isn't always the case. You may also find that the cuts in the shaft of the safety lever DO NOT align with the sears, and the safety either does not function as a safety, or, does not allow the triggers to trip the sears.
This case requires a bit more investigation and work, and, just from what I have seen over the years of dealing with Darne guns, if you need help figuring out how to flip the safety on a site like this, you aren't likely to be the guy to make it work after that discovery.
Send it to JJ.



Unrelated to Darne guns, I have been off-line for a while. I am fine, and wish to thank those concerned with my welfare. I am at a point where I need a new computer, and find myself not terribly interested in taking care of that problem. That, and spring has always been a very busy time for me. As Craig noted elsewhere, I have an 11 year old son, and as we have done every year since he was five years old, we participated in the Lake Pepin 3 Speed Tour, completing the 90 mile, two day tour on 50+ year old, 70 lb. English three speed bicycles:






There are perhaps 150 people who do the tour with the local English bicycle club. Most of them drop their cars in Red Wing, climb on their bikes and have no SAG for either the ride down Wisconsin 35, or, the ride back up US 61 in Minnesota the next day. The Colombian chick gets shoved into the cab of the F150, that has spare parts, tools, beer, and compressed air available in the bed. I have become, I suppose, a necessary evil to this group-I serviced a flat tire, this year, and pressed a cotter, sitting on my butt at the Maiden Rock rest stop, last year.

I am stunned at the number of people who hear about the ride, buy a $15 thrift store Raleigh, that has hung in the rafters for 4 decades, and show up on Saturday morning, without so much as a drop of oil being squirted into the rear hub.






Christopher has outgrown his 17" 1963 Raleigh Colt, and this will be his last year on it. The photo shows what you often start with for an older English bicycle that meets specific requirements (this is a small men's frame, that should fit him for several more seasons, when completed). It will be restored, and made ready for a club ride this fall, and he will use it for next years tour.

I've been busy. My brother and mother are disabled, and I spend more time every year helping them get through their days. I look at the for sale section every day, but, posting with the computers available to me at the moment has become a PITA.

I'll try not to be a stranger. Best wishes to you all.



Ted Schefelbein
Posted by: Argo44

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/01/18 05:17 PM

Ted, you are the Darnemeister, Le Maitre des Darne, and I believe every word you say about Darnes and Darne clones. But a 70lb English 3 speed?

I toured all over North Florida in 1959-60 on my English 3 speed. We'd pack our stuff in a pair of jeans with the legs tied in a knot at the knee, sling them over the rear fender and off we'd go in the middle of summer with the heat and humidity. Its a wonder heat stroke didn't take us out. And I'm sure that they didn't weigh 70 lbs. Even a Schwinn with front headline, double cross braces and tail fins wouldn't weigh that much. Anyway, sounds like a great ride.

Gene smile
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/01/18 05:30 PM

Gene,
The Men's 23" in the picture is 58, empty. A bike lock, tea stove, several bottles of water, along with my lucky cresent wrench, go in the Caradice bag. You feel every pound going up the 2 1/2 mile Bay City hill on the WI side.
My Schwinn ballooner newspaper boy's bike, is 72, with the baskets.
My Schwinn Le Tour, rid of steel wheels, seatpost, and a few other sundrys, is 22.

I ride, or, get dragged by my Setter, on a bike, every day.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: billwolfe

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/01/18 06:23 PM

Ted,

Thanks for the pics and the post! Really a trip down memory lane that made me smile. Happy riding!

Bill
Posted by: John Roberts

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/01/18 06:26 PM

Great posts, Ted. Love that family activity stuff. 91 degrees here in the ole miss at 5:30 p.m.
JR
Posted by: Karl Graebner

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/01/18 07:34 PM

Ted,
I've found that biking with the family is a great way to spend Summertime together while getting the legs in shape for bird season. I've flushed some birds on the Rails To Trails routes revealing possible coverts!
Karl


Posted by: ClapperZapper

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/01/18 08:51 PM

Strangely, I have the complete service manuals (with pictures) AND a complete set of factory tools, and service and repair parts, for: Sturmey-Archer, Sachs, and Shimano, 3 speeds, over in my warehouse.

All the little springs, pawls, gears, etc left over from when my parents closed their bicycle shop.

I need to get that stuff out.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/01/18 08:53 PM

Karl,
I'm a spandex and lycra free kind of bicyclist. Not sure, but, there is likely a law or two I'd be in violation of if I put that stuff on.

All my bikes are $50 bikes.


On a sad note, Geoffroy Gournet appears to have washed his hands of bringing Darne, or any other French guns back and forth to France for repair. In the very near future, I'll be listing a 12 gauge, straight stock V19, that I bought, thinking I'd be able to have it's right handed stock replaced in France.

Oh well.



Best,
Ted
Posted by: Dave Erickson

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/02/18 09:49 AM

Ted, I'm just downriver in Trempealeau, WI, and my wife and I greatly enjoy the overall river corridor. Hope you stopped at the Nelson Cheese Factory!
Posted by: Tinker

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/02/18 10:55 AM

Ted - it's interesting yet not surprising to see your fondness for the nice old bicycles.

I have a dear old friend who years ago got to work with Ernest Csuka at the Alex Singer bicycle workshop in France.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/02/18 02:17 PM

Ted is the Savant of slide actions; He's also the Porte Parole pour les Stephanois; All the French gun makers in Saint Etienne made bicycles - Ted is obviously carrying on a French tradition.

By the way, I went and checked 1960'ish cycle weights:
-- A classic 1960 Schwinn with headlights, double bars, steel rims, luggage rack - 58 lbs



-- My old 1950s Raleigh Sport (called "English racer" by us at the time) 3 speed with racks on back and front and lock/cable along with luggage rack, steel on steel, steel seat post, rims, pommel, handle bars, fenders, chain guard, kick stand, pump, lights, generator, tool bag - as pictured - 51 lbs - add a pack to the luggage rack and you're up to 70. Dry without the baskets. luggage rack, generator, tool kit, but with the fenders and chain guard it was probably 30.



I can't believe we were pedaling that weight back in 1959-60; Florida doesn't have a lot of hills but we labored up the few it did.
Posted by: Stan

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/02/18 07:40 PM

I had a Schwinn with "balloon" tires when I was about 10-11. It was great for negotiating these sandy dirt roads. A deep sandbed didn't slow me down, but a black neighbor could outrun me bad on the hard road, in a race. He laughed at me so much that I begged for a three-speed English racer. Dad bought me one in Augusta for my birthday, or Christmas, can't remember. I loved racing even then, and next time I got the chance I challenged him to a rematch. I started off in second gear, and he pulled off from me as usual. But, when I hit third I came around him and left him wondering what just happened.

Those little skinny tires weren't worth a crap in a sandbed, tho'.

Good memories. Thanks for them.

SRH
Posted by: pmag

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/02/18 09:09 PM

My thanks to all of you. I think I will contact J.J. in Enid.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/03/18 12:27 AM

Dave,
We usually stop at The Smiling Pelican for lunch on the tour, it was cleaned out this year, and we ate at a bar in the same town-the waitresses were a bit too friendly, as I remember. We ALWAYS hit the cheese factory in Nelson, at that point in the ride you are very much ready for an ice cream cone, and to get your hindquarters off of a Brooks saddle. After that, I head across the bridge into Wabasha, and a well deserved hot tub, dinner at Slippery's, and an early bedtime. Most of the animals on the tour camp, at the big campground in the middle of Wabasha. I'm over camping.

Gene,
The original poster would appear to have had his question politely answered, and since my name made the title of the thread, and the conversation has veered off into another of my irrational interests (postwar English consumer bicycles) I am going to attempt to just as politely correct a few points about that topic.
The "English Racer" you posted a photo of, is actually a 28" rod braked version of the more commonly imported Sports model, of the same era. I can assure you, few to no children rode such a bicycle in this country, they were too large and expensive. It would have weighed more than 51 lbs, also. The name "English Racer" while commonly heard in your era, is a misnomer, these bikes were never intended for racing of any sort. They were simply what a typical Englishman rode for basic transportation from the late 1920s until perhaps the 1970s, and sold well in the US at the same time-fewer Englishmen owned cars in this era than their American counterparts. WIth a bit of maintenance, these are bicycles that can easily see 50-100 years of daily use, and many Englishmen are riding bicycles their Grandparents purchased decades before they were born.
My daily rider:





This, a model I own three of, is the rarely encountered five speed version of the Sturmey Archer internal gear hub, the S5, fitted to the "Sprite", a higher end Sports model. There are actually six gears in that hub, but, the two in the middle are the same ratio, so it is known as a five speed. I modify the gearing on all our bikes, typically using a 20-22 tooth sprocket on the hub, and a 44 on the crank. The Sturmey, either S5 or AW three speed, as delivered, is simply geared too high for actual use. I bought this bike at a garage sale, and it had leaned against an outside storage shed for so long, the hubs were level with the ground, the bottom half of the rims sunk in the dirt. All I wanted was the hub, and the owner told me I could buy the hub for $10, or get the whole bike out for free. I have completed 7 or 8 Lake Pepin tours on this old bike, a 1967.

A few shots of my Son's bike:

This is a five year old, ready to begin his rather chilly first Lake Pepin tour, 6 years ago:





This is a 1963 Raleigh Colt, built before the company had gone to the cost cutting measures of Dutch wheels versus the heavier Westrick rims, and plastic fittings on the shift cable wheel, and fulcrum clamp. I got it from the founder of the Lake Pepin tour, 81 year old Noel Robinson, a man who still rides and completes the tour every year. My Son INSISTED the bike not be restored, simply cleaned, repaired, and put back in service. You 'gotta love a five year old who appreciates patina. The bike has been modified with short 10 speed cranks to allow Chris to "spin" which, keeps him riding all day, but, it still doesn't go up the Bay City hill by itself!

The survival rate of 17" boys Raleigh bikes in this country is likely less than 1/10 of 1% of production.

Lake Pepin Tour "bling":



Christopher began riding the tour when he was 5. He had trouble getting his feet on the ground the first year, but, we practiced a move where I came to a stop in front of him, and "caught" the stem of his bike as he came to a stop next to me. It worked beautifully, and, along with starting from a curb, he became the youngest rider ever to do the Tour in the self propelled catagory (babies have done it, from a bike trailer) and the youngest record is one Chris still holds.
A young lady, seeing Chris buzzing around on the start of the tour this year, asked him if he was going to "try" the Tour. He came to a stop and replied "I tried it when I was five, and have done it every year since. I'm doing the tour, again"
I don't know if she was impressed or horrified when she saw the bag tags on his bike.

Best,
Ted

Posted by: Argo44

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/03/18 01:16 AM

Ted, my post was intended to be admiration - please don't be offended. That Raleigh was precious to me from age 12-17. It was my transportation - the South was poor at the time - in Gainesville we didn't have all those Southern California hot cars in 1962 as seen in "American Graffiti." I don't think there were above 20 cars in the "senior parking lot" and most of those were early 50's stick shifts.

I rode my "English Racer" (Raleigh sport) to school from 6th grade to 12th grade. I played bicycle polo with it (we invented the sport using old golf woods and a softball)...we toured N.Florida on them when it was still "cracker" including pushing them in the deep sand in "the big Scrub" east of Gainesville towards the Saint John's river. I wish I still had it;

There's a Raleigh Sport in the Museum of American History on the Mall it was so popular. In no way did I intend to cast aspersions on your bike. It was supposed to be a light-hearted "well done."

This is my bike for the last 13 years. I don't tour on it though the bike trails here run all the way to the Blue Ridge and if you use the C&O Canal tow-path 230 miles up to Columbia, Maryland. I do try to put 10 miles a day when I'm in the country and have a 18 mile loop from McLean, almost to Mount Vernon, then up along the Potomac and back beside Rte 66.

Why a Le Monde? In Brussels in 1986 in February on a cold rainy day my wife and I were sitting in a small cafe off the Petite Sablon when an American walked in; we struck up a conversation; he wanted to buy a cheap sofa - we'd just bought one (we still have it) and sent him to the box store. I was Greg Lemond. I followed his career and Tour de France ever since.


Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/03/18 01:28 AM

Gene,
Absolutely no offense was taken, we just came up on a subject I know enough about to be dangerous, and I hoped to politely correct some points that were historically inaccurate.

I am "into" this end of the bicycling spectrum. Two more photos, if I may? My "Museum" bike:



A heart stoppingly beautiful and unused version of the Raleigh Sprite, original down to the Sprite twin stripe tires and threaded Bates inner tube stems, and probably some original AIR in the tubes. 1967 also.
I ride it at the ABCE event, and have declined all offers to part with it.
It came from a thrift store I happened into one day, waiting for my wife to finish an appointment. I wish I knew how it ended up there.

The "conundrum" bike:



Also a 1967, also in beautiful condition, this is a 5 speed hub version of the Robin Hood, a loss leader version of the higher end Raleigh bikes. How someone managed to get a Robin Hood delivered with the S5 hub as original equipment (it has Sprite 5 decals and correct date codes throughout) is something none of the club members, some of them English bicycle dealers from that era, can explain.
I call it my Wife's, and she will ride it, on a sunny afternoon on a dedicated bike path. But, she is not truly a rider, and is content in her role as provider of SAG support in the F150, while my Son and I ride.
If anyone is further interested in the old English three speed bikes from (most of) our childhoods, the Sheldon Brown website is full of history, and everything you need to know on keeping them running. The English built cool bikes and guns.
My newest bike is a 1972. I am stuck in time, in an upright riding position, using obsolete bicycles, and, I'm really OK with that. Sorry for the diversion, and, I'm pretty sure I'm done now.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: L. Brown

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/03/18 07:21 AM

Back many years ago, my wife decided to ride RAGBRAI--the Des Moines Register's Annual Great Bike Ride Across Iowa. We weren't looking for anything fancy in the way of a bike. Found the right bike shop. They recommended a used Raleigh. Worked out quite well, and she still has it.
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/03/18 07:47 AM

Danre shoot guns and 50 dollar junk bikes....those were the days. cool
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/03/18 09:34 AM

Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Back many years ago, my wife decided to ride RAGBRAI--the Des Moines Register's Annual Great Bike Ride Across Iowa. We weren't looking for anything fancy in the way of a bike. Found the right bike shop. They recommended a used Raleigh. Worked out quite well, and she still has it.


Sheldon Brown would have agreed. Your wife is a tough girl.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: Karl Graebner

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/03/18 11:50 AM

Ted,
My wife and I do a lot of bike touring in the off season of bird hunting, sometimes 500-1000 miles a summer. I noticed that you have what looks to be a Brooks English saddle. Those seats make almost any bike feel like the best, very comfortable after they conform to you bottom!
Vintage steel bikes hold a special place of respect in my heart, and I see a good number of them on the tours. Mine is an 80's vintage chrome Schwinn that I have ridden 26,000 miles on so far, and wouldn't give it up for anything more modern. Biking is a great way to keep the legs in shape for bird season.
Karl
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/05/18 08:37 AM

26,000 miles...boy you're a biking fool Karl. Teddy probably ain't rode 5 miles in his life time.

This past spring my friend fed an older fellow supper in middle Tennessee he was in his mid 80's and on his way from New Orleans to Michigan on a bicycle with a little trailer behind it. crazy
Told me about his bike ride across America and riding completely around New Zealand years back with all it's one lane bridges....

I asked if he ever saw the movie Forrest Gump....he said he had.

I then told him as far as people I've met he was definitely the Forrest Gump of bicycles.
Posted by: Shotgunlover

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/07/18 09:43 AM

In bikes, as in shotguns, I could not find precisely what I wanted so made my own cocktail- titanium Merlin MTB frame, 1X8 gearing with narrow-wide 30T chain ring before the setup became fashionable. Total weight 22lbs.

Wish I could do the same by joining Darne barrels (the ones minus the bottom rib) to a Dickson non ejector side pedal frame.
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/07/18 10:09 PM

Nothing as esoteric as a titanium frame (I won't be riding in Europe in any bikes races) but, I have done similar:



This is a bike I lusted after as a kid. 1972 Peugeot UO8, the base model. They were light for how much steel they contained, and mine has been on a diet. Wheels, seatpost, and a few other parts are now aluminum. The pedals and the brakes were among the few things Peugeot got right, and they, along with the shifters, are OEM. Advertised as having long seat stays for better use with paniers, it has relaxed frame geometry, and is a hoot to ride. I prefer steel farmes.


More steel:




1973 Schwinn Le Tour. The kid who got this for Christmas in my neighborhood didn't ride much, and it ended up in a dumpster with two flat tires when his family moved. I used it the way it was sold for perhaps two decades, and then put it on a diet. These bikes were produced by Panasonic in Japan for Schwinn. This one is down to an honest 22 pounds with Greenfield kickstand.

I still ride my three and five speeds more than my 10s. I have some carpel tunnel issues sneaking in due to my job, the uprights are more comfortable these days, and I'm seldom in a hurry. Just like my guns, I don't have a collection, I have an accumulation.

The right English gunmaker will refurbish a gun for you, perhaps you could specify no lower rib on a sidelever? Its just money, right?

Best,
Ted
Posted by: BrentD

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/07/18 11:15 PM

That Le Tour color is so iconic of the era. I remember it well, and even lusted after the bike just for the color, but never got one. I recall they were pretty darn heavy compared to others in their class.

thanks for the tour of your bike "accumulation". Pretty nostalgic for sure.
Posted by: ClapperZapper

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/07/18 11:40 PM

Do you guys remember the "Teledyne Titan", titanium frame. Used to get purple finger prints on it from your sweat.
I have a Schwinn Tandem, an old Varsity model, a Continental, and a bunch of Euro 10 speeds. Bottechia, Ghanna, Gudereit, some others.

I used to get $3.00 a wheel in 1975 to spoke wheels. Built, trued, tensioned, and out the door, a pair an hr. Spoke until your fingers bled.
Posted by: Karl Graebner

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/08/18 12:19 AM

Remember, only steel is real! I've avoided carbon fiber and aluminum ones because steel just feels correct. It's interesting how bikes are coming full circle, with longer wheel bases and more relaxed geometry with room for larger tires. A great way to condition one's legs for bird season.
Karl
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/08/18 07:08 PM

I haven't built too many wheels. I know I can't do it fast. The only thing titanium around here is the cylinder in a S&W 360PD Airweight Chief's Special.

The bikes are all low end. When upgrading components was cheaper than a new bike, they got upgraded components. If you keep your eyes open, you can find plenty of free bikes, and I've fixed and given many bikes away. I have more than I need. Just like guns. But a bike ride is always good fun.


Best,
Ted
Posted by: Geo. Newbern

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/08/18 08:14 PM

Honeymoon with 1st wife was on Nantucket. We rode the ferry over from Woods Hole but left the car. So we biked. It was her idea. I fell off and road-rashed my leg. Never believe anyone who says "its just like riding a bike"!...Geo
Posted by: GLS

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/08/18 08:17 PM

Karl, I sometimes use my bike for snipe hunting where the fields are a mile from the parking lot and only foot or bike travel is allowed. Same for some of my turkey hunting. The bike is a Craig's List Cannondale with an alloy frame. I have gun rack permanently mounted on the handle bars for such occasions. Before bird seasons, I let my Brittanys pull me around the neighborhood to get them in shape. I'm a lost cause.
Posted by: Stan

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/08/18 08:46 PM

Why don't you ride that up to our favorite woodcock haunts, Gil? Leaves much less of a carbon footprint than a truck. grin

SRH
Posted by: Karl Graebner

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/08/18 09:19 PM

GLS,
That really is a great idea. I once came across a small game hunter on a logging road with a .22 rifle attached to his mountain bike. The bike is a good way to get to a hunting destination, rather than hiking if you can. Don't forget, the legs still get a good workout.
Karl
Posted by: Jagermeister

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/09/18 07:05 AM

MTB is not a bad way to get around. One can get Schwinn or Mongoose for <$200 and Huffy for about $100. I have "street threads" on mine and use it as a way to get some exercise. I did $20 upgrade from traditional seat to Schwinn buttock one sparing pressure on groin area.
I thought Cannondale was NE kind of thing like SAAB automobile. One learns something new on this board every day.
Posted by: Shotgunlover

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/09/18 07:30 AM

Now we can see why the full name of Manufrance was Maanufacture Francaise d'armes et cycles. And it was not the only shotgun maker to get involved with bikes, others are:

BSA
HUNTER ARMS
REMINGTON BICYCLES
LEFEVER BIKE CHAIN
FOX MACHINE COMPANY
JOHN LOVEL BOSTON
A.G. SPALDING
IVER JOHNSON ARMS AND CYCLE WORKS
SIMSON OF SUHL
GREENER (F.GREENER)
F.WILLIAMS, (AMERICAN GUN AND CYCLE WORKS)
FN BELGIUM
BROWN BROTHERS (yes, the prestigious UK maker)

GLS love that scabbard!
Posted by: GLS

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/09/18 07:39 AM

Stan, I had an old Schwinn mountain bike that I used years ago in one of our woodcock spots except it was for turkeys. The road in places was a washout and no four wheel drive truck could get through. I'd have to carry the bike across the washout and pedal onward. I've also used the newer bike for silent and fast movement at Fort Stewart during spring turkey season. It's not easy carrying a turkey while pedaling a bike. I usually have to walk the bike with a turkey but it's welcome burden.
Posted by: GLS

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/09/18 07:52 AM

SGLer, here's a better view of the gun racks without the "scabbard" or gun case. That was a good reminder you posted about the early days of gunmakers and bikes, thanks. Photo taken during the third day run along the ricefields in the Tour de Snipe. 1959 M37 16 gauge. Gil
Posted by: GLS

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/09/18 07:59 AM

In the list of former bikemakers Darne was omitted. Here's their expedition model cycle that, as was with their shotguns, didn't appeal with some folks over here.

Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/09/18 09:12 AM

Gil,
Seriously, if the Regis Darne factory was ever involved with bicycles, I have seen no evidence of it. Many were the small shops that finished and sold in-the-white Darne supplied actions, and I'd bet some of them dabled in bicycles-Peugeot comes to mind.

Best,
Ted
Posted by: HomelessjOe

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/10/18 10:04 AM

Originally Posted By: GLS
In the list of former bikemakers Darne was omitted. Here's their expedition model cycle that, as was with their shotguns, didn't appeal with some folks over here.



They should have stuck to making bikes...I bet Teddy has at least two one for what ever azz he's wearing that day.
Posted by: Jagermeister

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/10/18 10:52 AM

There would be no point for them to make bikes as the Chinese can make better ones for less. One can get perfectly serviceable MTB from China for about $150. They even have shock absorbers in front forks and front brakes just like mini-motorcycles. The Great Leader is going to meet with North Koreans. Just think what victory it would be they that population could make stuff for less than Indians or Vietnamese.
Posted by: Argo44

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/10/18 12:58 PM

Four Stephanois gun makers who also made cycles:

Manufrance:


Peugeot:


Rivolier Pere & Fils:


Ravat (Wonder):


There are more. Berger who made bikes under the name "Robert" and mark "Robust" etc. Here is a list of bike manufacturers in France before WWII to give an idea of the number of firms involved - a lot of these are in the Haut-Loire (Saint Etienne) region:

encyclo des constructeurs d'hier

AGACHE / CYCLES DIRECT
AIGLON
AJAX / CYCLES AJAX
ALBUSSAC / CYCLES ALBUSSAC
ALLELUIA
ALLIBERT ET MAISONNAS / CYCLES LOUVET J.B.
ALPAR / MANUFACTURE FRANCAISE DE CYCLES / R.A.B.
ALTIRA / ALTIRA CYCLES
ARCHAMBAUD / GANOLO
ARLIGUIE / CYCLES ARLIGUIE
ARMOR
ARNAUD FRANCIS / EXCELSIOR
ARROW / CYCLES ARROW
ASTRALE / CYCLES ASTRALE / CYCLES VEDETTE / CYCLES WINCHESTER
ATELIERS DE MAISON ROUGE
ATELIERS DU FURAN
ATELIERS ROBERT FOUCHE
AUSECACHE FRERES
AUSTRAL
AUTECHAUD M. / MANUFACTURE D’ARMES ET CYCLES / CYCLES BON AVION
AUTOMOTO / SOCIETE NOUVELLE DES CONSTRUCTIONS MECANIQUES DE LA LOIRE / L’INDUSTRIELLE DU CENTRE
AVIAC
BACHELARD
BACHELIER
BACO
BAFFERT HENRI
BAGGI-SAMYN / MANUFACTURE DES CYCLES BAGGI-SAMYN
BALLANDRAS G. / NILMELIOR / V.B.F.
BALLIS / MANUFACTURE DES CYCLES BALLIS / CYCLES BALLIS
BARBIER L. / VIATOR
BARRA
BARRÉ M. / CYCLES BARRÉ
BARRET / CYCLES BLEU FRANCE
BASSALER J. / CYCLES VAVY
BASSET / MANUFACTURE DES BICYCLETTES BASSET / CYCLES BASSET
BASTIDE
BECK
BENJAMIN
BERNASSE
BERNHARD / CYCLES AVIETTE
BERTIN
BERTON A. / CYCLES BERTON
BIBOUD / LIBERIA / CYCLES LIBERIA / CYCLES VERCORS / CYCLES EDELVEIS
BILLOT P. / CYCLES FRANCE REINE
BILLOUIN HENRI / ALBATROS
BIONIER A. / CYCLES A. BIONIER
BLANC ET GAUTARD / FABRIQUE FRANCAISE DE VELOCIPEDES
BLANCHARD GRANGE / BGA
BLOIS GUY SPORT (GBS)
BOB FRERES
BOESCH JEAN-CLAUDE
BŒUF ET DESHAYES / CYCLES PHENIX
BOISIS
BOIZOT / CYCLES BOIZOT
BONNEFOND
BONNET JACQUES
BONNIVARD ET FICHER / MANUFACTURE DE CYCLES / CYCLES EXTAZ / CYCLES LOUQSOR
BOUNIARD ET BARRIERE / MANUFACTURE D’ARMES ET CYCLES
BOURDEL
BOURGEOIS FERNAND / ONOTO / CYCLES ONOTO
BOUROTTE
BRESSON L. / MANUFACTURE DES CYCLES ET JOUETS BRESSON
BRUN-LATRIGE / MANUFACTURE D’ARMES ET CYCLES / CYCLES EXPRESS-ORIENT
BUSSET JACQUES
C.M.P.
CALMONT V. / CYCLES NEW-IDEAL
CAMINADE / CYCLES CAMINARGENT
CARRARA / CYCLES CARRARA
CARRE BERNARD
CASNAT
CASTAN
CATTANEO
CAZENAVE / PALOMA
CHABRIER / CYCLES CHABRIER
CHAMPEYRACHE / MANUFACTURE DE VELOCICPEDES
CHAMPON J-M / MANUFACTURE DE CYCLES / CYCLES STAR FLING
CHAPELET ROBERT / CHAPLAIT
CHAPOLARD ET GOUBET / CYCLES RADIOR / CYCLES VERLOR
CHARREL PAUL
CHARRIER ET CIE
CHICHERY ALBERT / CYCLES DILECTA / DILECTA
CHIRON ALBERT
CHOBERT L. / CYCLES L. CHOBERT 
CIZERON
CLEDIABER
CLEMENT ADOLPHE / CYCLES CLEMENT
CLERC RAYMOND
CLEVER
COCYMO
CODRIDEX ET FILS / ROYAL-CODRIX
COLOMB
COMBRIAT / CYCLES COMBRIAT
COMPAGNIE FRANCAISE DES CYCLES
COMPTOIR PROVENCAL DU CYCLE / CYCLES PAYAN / CYCLES REGENCE
COMPTOIR VELOCIPEDIQUE DU POITOU / CYCLES YBIS / CYCLES GENIUS
CONTINENTAL / CYCLES CONTINENTAL / ALESIA / L’ANGEVINE
CORIMA
CORRE JEAN-MARIE
COSSET MARCEL / MANUFACTURE ARDENNAISE DE VELOCIPEDIE
COTTEREAU / CYCLES COTTEREAU / COTTEREAU ET COMPAGNIE
COUPET ET BERTIN / CYCLE L’OREOL / CYCLES SYDIA / CYCLES B.E.C.
COURTOIS ET WENGER
COUSIN
COUTURIER ERNEST ET CIE / SOCIETE PARISIENNE DE CYCLES
CUROT A. / LA ROUE D’OR
CUSSET / CYCLES SIRIUS
CYCLEA
DANGRE BERNARD / STARNORD / STARFRANCE / NORVASPORT
DARDENNE
DARRACQ A. / CYCLES PERFECTA
DAUDON CAMILLE
DE DION-BOUTON
DECAUVILLE / CYCLES DECAUVILLE
DEJOUANNET MARCEL
DELAGE CLAUDE
DELANGLE / CYCLES DELANGLE
DELATTRE A. / GREEN STAR / ARLETT
DELCROIX FERNAND
DELIZY ET POIRET (DELIZY ET POIRET-BRASSART)
DELYS / CYCLES LE GLOBE
DEMONT / CYCLES TNOMED
DEPIERRE
DEPREZ
DESCHEPPER / CYCLES LE FAUCON
DESVAGES
DEVEAU C. / CYCLES L’INDIENNE
DIFFLOTH
DOLÉ J. / ROLAND
DOLEAC
DOMBRET AINE ET SES FILS / L’OURAGAN / CYCLES OURAGAN
DOURLENS / CYCLES PANDORE
DREVON / CYCLES C.D.F. (CYCLES DE FRANCE)
DUCHERON ROBERT
DUJARDIN
DUMAINE E. / MANUFACTURE DES CYCLES LA TORPILLE / LA TORPILLE
DUMOND FRERES / CYCLES NEMAUSA
DUPONT CHARLES / DURAVIA / METAL AVIATION
DURIF / CYCLES OLYMPIA
DUTHEIL A. ET CIE / MANUFACTURE DE BICYCLETTES
E.V.M.
ELOI ROLAND
ELVISH / MANUFACTURE DE CYCLES ELVISH / CYCLES ELVISH
EMERIAU
EMERY PIERRE / CYCLES VOLTA
ENTREPRISES BAUD / BETTY
ENTREPRISES DIOT / CYCLES DEXTRAL
ENTREPRISES VIRLAT / CYCLES NANCIA
ERIOL
ERPELDING EUGENE
ETABLISSEMENTS BONNICHON / CYCLES ARGENTA
ETABLISSEMENTS BRION / CYCLES CHARLES MOREL / BONNET ET MOREL
ETABLISSEMENTS CALLA / CYCLES CALLA
ETABLISSEMENTS CONVERSY / ETOILE SPORT
ETABLISSEMENTS DEVAUX GERMAIN ET GABRIEL / CYCLES BRILLANT / CYCLES ORIENT
ETABLISSEMENTS FAUVARQUE / THOMANN JEAN / CYCLES HERCULE / CYCLES ROTAX / CYCLES AUXOR / CYCLES LA QUOTIDIENNE
ETABLISSEMENTS FEDERICI J. DE / CYCLES EMMEL
ETABLISSEMENTS FLINT / CYCLES ALL RIGHT
ETABLISSEMENTS GAUBERT / CYCLES ELECTRA
ETABLISSEMENTS GAUTHIER HENRI ET CHAPUIS LEON REUNIS / CYCLES CHIMERE / CYCLES HORER
ETABLISSEMENTS GOTTFRIED FRANCOIS / UNIC-SPORT
ETABLISSEMENTS HOUSSOUSLIEZ / LA CALAISIENNE
ETABLISSEMENTS JEANNE ET PHILIPPE / MESSINA / LA FRANCE
ETABLISSEMENTS LE MAO FRERES / CYCLES ROOLD / ROOLD
ETABLISSEMENTS MAIRE-VUILLEMIN / CYCLES MERVIL / CYCLES ERIAM / ASTERION / MERVIL EURAM / PONTI / LA PONTISSALIENNE / SUPER-MONTAGNARD
ETABLISSEMENTS MATHON / CYCLES BELLEDONNE
ETABLISSEMENTS METRAUD A. / CYCLES VALOIS
ETABLISSEMENTS NAUD / CYCLES SUPERATOR / CYCLES ROYAL RAMLYL
ETABLISSEMENTS PARNET / CYCLES EPSOM
ETABLISSEMENTS PFOHL / CYCLES PFOHL
ETABLISSEMENTS PROPHETE ET FILS / LUCIEN MICHARD / PROMO-VICHY / CYCLES GARRIGOU
ETABLISSEMENTS RENE MARTIN
ETABLISSEMENTS REY ET VARENNE / CYCLES REYVA
ETABLISSEMENTS SELCO
ETABLISSEMENTS THEO CYCLES
ETABLISSEMENTS THOMAS ET ROSSET
ETABLISSEMENTS TUCACHT / CYCLES HYGINA / CYCLES HYGINETTE / CYCLES BELLA / CYCLES LACK
ETABLISSEMENTS V.B. / CYCLES VANOLI
ETABLISSEMENTS VIGNAL
ETABLISSEMENTS VILLEMUS ROGER / ROYAL SAVOY / VILLEMUS
ETABLISSEMENTS YVARS
EVRARD G.
EZBELENT
F.A.C.
FABRE BAPTISTIN ET ROGER
FACHLEITNER / CYCLES ATLANTIC / CYCLES VIETTO / CYCLES FACHLEITNER
FAGEOT P. / MANUFACTURE FRANCAISE DE VELOCIPEDES
FARET / CYCLES FARET
FAURE A.
FAURE AUGUSTE / DEXTER / CYCLES DEXTER
FAVOR
FERNAND CLEMENT ET CIE / CYCLES FERNAND CLEMENT 
FERRAND GEO
FLETCHER / C.N.C.
FOLLIS
FONLUPT
FOREL / CYCLES ACIA
FORTIN P. / CYCLES DOLMEN
FOUCAUX CAMILLE / CONSTRUCTION MODERNE DE CYCLES
FRANCE MOTOR CYCLES
FRANCE-LOIRE / CYCLES FRANCE-LOIRE
FUCHS ET COMPAGNIE / CYCLES BENGALIA / CYCLES LA BEAUCERONNE
GALLIX
GARIN AMBROISE
GARINO
GAUCHET / CYCLES ODETTA / CYCLES LIBERTY
GAUTHIER
GAUTIER C. / CYCLES VULCAIN
GENTIL EDMOND / GENTIL ET COMPAGNIE / ALCYON
GERAL
GERARD ALFRED
GERKINET
GESLIN RENE / CYCLES HERGE
GITANE
GLADIATOR / CYCLES GLADIATOR
GNOME ET RHONE
GODMARD ANDRE / CYCLES LUTETIA, AIGLE, ALLIANCE, CHARMING
GOGLIN
GOUIRAND / CONSTRUCTION FRANÇAISE DE VELOCIPEDES GOUIRAND
GRANDS MAGASINS DU LOUVRE
GRAS F.
GRATIEUX FERNAND / CYCLES GRATIEUX
GRIFFON
GRIMAULT / CYCLES GRIMAULT
GROSJEAN FRERES / WANDERER
GUIGNARD E. / CYCLES GUIGNARD / COLIBRI / CYCLES COLIBRI
GUILLER / CYCLES ORIGAN / CYCLES ATLAS
GUINARD J. / CYCLES LE CERF / CYCLES KEOPS
GURTNER
GUYOT M. / LA PERLE
HABOURY A. / STROCK ET COMPAGNIE / CYCLES STROCK
HARAL
HELYETT
HERA
HERITAGE-PARIS
HERRERA CLAUDE
HERSE RENE
HUGONNIER ROGER
HURTU
IMBERNOTTE A. / CYCLES LION D’OR
ISRAEL ROBERT / CYCLES HOEL
JEUNET ANDRE / CAPTIVANTE / CYCLES JEUNET
JOURDE MARCEL
JUSSY / DOMBRET JUSSY
JUZAN GEORGES
KOEHLER-ESCOFFIER
L’AIGLE / SOCIETE D’EXPLOITATION DES ETABLISSEMENTS L’AIGLE / CYCLES NORDA
L’ETENDARD FRANCAIS
LA FRANCAISE / LA FRANCAISE-DIAMANT
LA GAULOISE
LA SOUPLETTE
LA TOURICYCLETTE
LABADIE HENRI / CYCLES ZEUS
LABOR
LACROIX / PARIS-SPORT / CYCLES HARRYS
LAFOND H. / CYCLES LAFOND
LANGENIEUX / CYCLES HUNTER
LAPIERRE / CYCLES LAPIERRE
LARIPPE A. / CYCLES L’ETOILE
LAUVERGNIAT ET FERRAND / OMEGA
LE BON DOMINIQUE
LE GOFF
LE GREVES
LE LIEVRE FREDERIC
LECOU / CYRANA / MUGUETT / RUY BLAS / HAMLET / RUGBY
LEJEUNE / SAUVAGE-LEJEUNE
LELEU
LEMASSON G. / CYCLES WARRIOR
LEPETIT / LEPETIT ET ROCH / CYCLES STELLIA
LES CYCLES SINGER
LEVI H. / CYCLES GALICIA
LEVRON J. / FABRIQUE DES CYCLES SYPHAX ET EMERAUDE
LEVY E. / MANUFACTURE FRANÇAISE DE BICYCLETTES / LA GUÊPE
LEYNAUD H. / CYCLES TAMBOITE
LIBERATOR / CYCLES LIBERATOR
LIMONGI GIUSEPPE
LODENOS PIERRE / VELOS PETIT-BRETON
LONGONI
LOUBRY ET MONTANET
LOUIS DIDIER
LOUVET FRERES ET CIE / FABRICATION FRANCAISE DE VELOCIPEDES
LOUVET. J.
LUCAS ET COMPAGNIE / LUCAS LOUIS / CYCLES ATLANTIDE
LUCAS ET UNDERBERG / PHEBUS
LUCER
LYJACK
MAGNAT-DEBON
MAHIEU / MANUFACTURE DES CYCLES J. M.
MAILLIER ET MAUGER
MAISON CHEVALIER / CYCLES CHEVALIER
MAISON MONTOUCHET / CYCLES NERVURA
MALICIET ET BLIN
MALINGE ET LAULAN / CYCLES MALINGE ET LAULAN
MANUFACTURE ALSACIENNE DE CYCLES REY
MANUFACTURE D’ARMES ET CYCLES DE TULLE
MANUFACTURE D’ARMES ET CYCLES MACHINE A COUDRE / CYCLES REINOR / CYCLES CHIMERE / CYCLES OMEGA
MANUFACTURE DE CADRES GLORIA
MANUFACTURE DE CYCLES CHEVALIER FRERES / CYCLES LIADOR
MANUFACTURE FOREZIENNE DE CYCLES / VICTOR LINART
MANUFACTURE FRANCAISE D’ARMES ET DE CYCLES / MANUFRANCE / HIRONDELLE / HIRON / H / CYCLES MIMOSA
MANUFACTURE FRANCAISE DE CHATELLERAULT
MANUFACTURE FRANCAISE DES CYCLES HERCULE
MANUFACTURE MODERNE DE CYCLES CLEMENT DAMBREVILLE / CYCLES MURATOR / CYCLES ALBY / CYCLES RIDER
MANUFACTURE MODERNES DES CYCLES JANIUS
MANUFACTURE ORLEANAISE DE CYCLES / CYCLES WILLIAM
MANUFACTURE VANDEVOIR DELGRANGE / LA NORDISTE
MARCADIER ANDRE
MARCEAU / MANUFACTURE DE CYCLES MARCEAU / CYCLES MARCEAU
MARCELLE / CYCLES MARCELLE
MARCHAND FELIX, MANUFACTURE DE CYCLES FRANCAIS
MARIÉ ET COMPAGNIE / ACATENE / METROPOLE / ACATENE METROPOLE / ACATENE VELLEDA
MARTIN GEORGES
MATHEVET
MAURY ANDRE / S.E.C.T.A.M.
MAYEUX
MAZOYER / CYCLES METALLOPLAN
MECACYCLE
MEGRET F. / CYCLES MEGRET
MEMES PIERRE / CYCLES BLANCHE HERMINE
MERAL
MERCIER
MESSNER LOUIS / ETABLISSEMENTS MESSNER / CYCLES REXOR
MESTRE ET BLATGE / LUCIFER / GENIAL LUCIFER
MEUNIER CLAUDE / MANUFACTURE DES CYCLES AQUILA / CYCLES AQUILA
MICHAUX / CYCLES MICHAUX
MICHEL ALAIN
MIDAVAINE
MILDERS FILS / LE CYCLONE
MIOSOTIS
MOIRE LOUIS / CYCLES GOELAND
MONET-GOYON
MONGILARDI FRANCOIS
MONGIN
MONOTUBE / CYCLES MONOTUBE
MONTAKO
MOREAU FRERES / CYCLES ESPER
MOTAREX / CYCLES MOTAREX
MOTOBECANE / MBK
MOTOCONFORT
MOTTE D. /  SOCIETE DES ANCIENS ETABLISSEMENTS MOTTE / USINES DE CONSTRUCTION MECANIQUE / CYCLES MOTTE
NARCISSE
NEUHARD ERNEST
NOUBEL / CYCLES TOLOSA NOUBEL
NOUVET
NOVER / CYCLES NOVER
OCEANE / CYCLES OCEANE
OLYMPIQUE / CYCLES OLYMPIQUE
OMNIUM / MANUFACTURE DES CYCLES OMNIUM / CYCLES OMNIUM
ONFRAY / FABRIQUE DE VELOCIPEDES
PAGIS HENRI / REGINA
PANEL JOANNY / LE CHEMINEAU / L’ISOARD / RICH-LAND
PANNETTON G. / CYCLES PANNETTON
PAPILLON / SOCIETE FRANCAISE POUR LA CONSTRUCTION DES CYCLES PAPILLON
PARIS FRANCE / CYCLES LA RAFALE / CYCLES HANSOME
PARTNER / CYCLES PARTNER
PASQUET PAUL / CYCLES PASQUET
PATTRE P.
PETIT-JEAN J. / CYCLES PETIT-JEAN
PEUGEOT
PEUGEOT CYRUS
PEUZIAT GEORGES
PHILIPPE
PHILIPPO ET FROMENTIN / CYCLES BOREAL
PICARD-FAYOLLE / CYCLES WARRANTED
PITARD LOUIS
POLCHLOPEK EDMOND / CYCLES EDMOND POLCHLOPEK
PONCE / CYCLES ONYX / CYCLES JOCKER
PORTIER / MANUFACTURE FRANCAISE PORTIER / PORTIER ET MERICANT
PROUVÉ JEAN
QUILLARD / CYCLES RUCHE
QUINARD / ELIMS PIERRE
R.P.F. / CYCLES R.P.F.
RANDO-CYCLES
RAVAT / CYCLES RAVAT / CYCLES WONDER
REBOUL ROBERT
REGNAULT ET DESOUBRY / CYCLES PEERLESS
REISS ANDRE / REYHAND
REMOND CH.
RENAULT
RHONSON / CYCLES RHONSON
RICHARD GEORGES
RIVA-SPORT
RIVAL / MANUFACTURE DE CYCLES RIVAL / CYCLES RIVAL
ROBERT R. / BERGER / CYCLES ROBUST
ROCHE ROGER
ROCHET / CYCLES ROCHET
ROCHET ET SCHNEIDER
ROCHET JEAN-FRANCOIS
ROLL LUCIEN
ROQUES / MONO-DAME
ROUBY LOMBARDY
ROULLAUD
ROUTENS JO
ROUVEYRE C. ET CIE / SOICIETE FRANCAISE DU CYCLIDEAL / CYCLIDEAL
ROUXEL ET DUBOIS
ROVIN
ROYAL ASPORT
ROYAL BARBIER
RUFFIN LOUIS / CYCLES ESSOR
RUPALLEY GEORGE / CYCLES ALUMINIUM
S.I.A. (SOCIETE INDUSTRIELLE D’ALBERT)
S.I.F.E.M.
S.M.G.
SABLIERE ANDRE
SAINT-MARTIN GERARD / CYCLES SAINT-MARTIN
SALMON DANIEL / CYCLES SALMON
SANITAS / VELOCIPEDES SANITAS
SANSECOUSSE
SAUVAGE
SAVANA DELACHANAL / DOLLAR
SAVOYE E. / CYCLES PERNOT
SCHULZ JACQUES
SCHWARTZ G. / BICYCLETTE SANCHOC
SEMPER
SERRUS / MANUFACTURE DE CYCLES ET MOTOCYCLETTE / CYCLES SERRUS
SIMON F. / MANUFACTURE DES CYCLES SIMON / CYCLES SIMON / S.I.F.
SIMON FRERES / ROYAL-FABRIC
SINGER ALEX
SOCIETE DE CONSTRUCTION DE L’OUEST
SOCIETE INDUSTRIELLE DU CYCLE (S.I.C.)
SOCIETE LYONNAISE DU CYCLE / CYCLES FURET
SOLEIL / MANUFACTURE FRANCAISE DES CYCLES SOLEIL / CYCLES SOLEIL
SOVIGNET A. / ZAS
SPARTING / CYCLES SPARTING
STELLA
SUPERIA
SUTTER AUGUSTE
SVELTE / SOCIETE MANUFACTURIERE D’ARMES ET CYCLES / VOORHOEVE J. / CYCLES SVELTE
T.V.T. (TECHNIQUE DU VERRE TISSE)
TALBOT / GRANDE ARMEE ACCESSOIRES / CYCLES TALBOT
TECHNICYCLE
TENDIL / CYCLES TENDIL
TERROT
THIMONNIER ET CIE / CYCLES SUPERIOR / VICTORIEUSE / NEVA
THIOLLET
THIROUARD J.
THOMANN ALPHONSE
THUIL A. / CYCLES ALLEGOT
TIBAL
TOURNOIS
TRIDON F. / USINES VELOCIPEDIQUES F. TRIDON / CYCLES TRIDON
ULDRY / CYCLES ULDRY
URAGO / CYCLES URAGO
VALDENAIRE / CYCLES ROYAL-VALDEN / V.P.F / V.R. / R.V.R. / BLAKER’S
VELECLAIR / METROPOLE / RACER / STERLING / SULKY / AMBASSADOR / DROIT AU BUT / COQ DE FRANCE
VELMUL
VELOSOLEX
VERDEUN MAURICE
VERDIN
VIALLE FRERES
VIGNERON H. / CYCLES VIGNERON / CYCLES EOLE
VITUS / ATELIER DE LA RIVE
Posted by: Argo44

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/10/18 02:57 PM

Here is a very bad translation of portions of this book; Essentially he's saying the Cycle industry when it came along grew in saint-Etienne because the manufacturing facilities, machines, expertise, workmen and management along with yearly business cycles were compatible with the already existing gun making industry.

http://books.openedition.org/editionsmsh/3747?lang=en

Héritages industriels et déterminations objectives:
Industrial background on determination of objectives:


4. Par-delà l’action personnelle de pionniers comme Pierre Gauthier constructeur de la première bicyclette française en 1886 ou Paul de Vivie apôtre du cyclotourisme plus connu sous le pseudonyme de Vélocio, et donc par-delà une explication possible en termes d’acteurs, la réussite de l’industrie stéphanoise du cycle – plus tardivement introduite ici qu’en d’autres villes – repose avant tout sur l’existence d’une structure industrielle favorable à la diffusion de l’innovation.

In addition to the personal actions of pioneers such as Pierre Gauthier, builder of the first French bicycle in 1886 or Paul de Vivie, apostle of cycle-touring best known under the pseudonym “Velocio,” and thus a possible explication in terms of participants (in spreading cyclyism), the success of the stephanotis cycle industry, introduced later here than elsewhere, rested above all on the existence of a favorable industrial structure for the diffusion of the innovation.

L’importance de l’armurerie dans la filiation technique:
The importance of the gun-maker in creating the techniques (of cycle making)

5. A une époque où la machine n’avait pas encore remplacé la plupart des façons manuelles, le réservoir d’ouvriers expérimentés, formés par l’exercice des multiples métiers du fer et de l’acier, a notoirement contribué au développement de l’industrie naissante du cycle. Soit qu’il lui ait donné ses premiers chefs d’entreprise, tels les armuriers Auguste Dombret ou Dombret Aîné, le mécanicien Louis Chavanet, le quincaillier Claudius Gros... Soit qu’il lui ait fourni des savoir-faire et une mémoire technique aptes à générer nombre d’applications dérivées et novatrices, du forgeage des axes de pédalier à partir d’axes cylindro-coniques semblables à ceux que Louis Chavanet avait vu utiliser par un forgeur de la vallée du Furan pour tirer des branches de tricoises au martinet, à l’emploi par Albert Raimond du principe de la rampe hélicoïdale entraînant les chargeurs de mitrailleuse pour déplacer le pignon conducteur de son fameux changement de vitesse « le Cyclo »…

In an era where the machine had not yet replaced the majority of manual work, the reservoir of trained workers, trained by the exercise of several different skill of iron and steel, notably contributed to the development of the newly born cycle industry. Such that they provided the first chiefs of (cycle making) enterprises such as the gun makers Auguste Dombret or Domgret the Older, the mechanic Louis Chavanet, the hardware store owner Claudius Cros… Such that they furnished the know-how and technical memory to enable the generation of a number of both new and spin-off applications, to forge the pedal axles beginning with the cylindro-conical sales such as thos of Louis Chavanet, who used a forger in the Furan valley to fire the sections of the pedal and crank, employed by Albert Raimond, on the principle of the spiral ramp helicoidal method of loading sub-machine gun magazines in order to move the rollers of his famous gear changing apparatus “the Cyclo…”

C’est en 1921, après l’installation de la MFAC dans ses nouveaux bâtiments de la rue Lassaigne, qu (…)
It was in 1921 after the installation of the MFAC in its new buildings on Rue Lassaigne, that….

6. Mais, si toutes les branches de la métallurgie stéphanoise ont leur part dans la réussite de l’industrie du cycle, y compris les aciéries, forges et fonderies lui fournissant produits bruts à transformer ou pièces à usiner, l’armurerie a pour elle de constituer une activité saisonnière, relativement complémentaire de l’activité du cycle. En effet, alors que le fusil se vend surtout de juin à octobre, la demande de bicyclette se manifeste de février jusqu’à août. Ce qui explique que nombre de fabricants d’armes se soient précocement établis fabricants de cycles (de la Société manufacturière d’armes et cycles de Saint-Etienne aux Ets Berger ou Rivollier... en passant bien sûr par la Manufacture d’armes et cycles de Saint-Etienne) sans avoir à spécialiser des ateliers1 où tours et fraiseuses servent indifféremment à l’usinage des pièces de l’arme et de la bicyclette.

But, if all the branches of stephanotis metallurgies played their part in the success of the cycle industry, and inching the steelmakers, forges and foundries which furnished the raw products to transform into factory parts, the Gun-making itself constituted a seasonal activity, relatively complementary to the activities of cycling. In effect, while guns were sold well from June to October, the demand for bicycles was from February to August. This explains the number of arms factories who established cycle manufacturing branches (In Saint Etienne Manufranch or Etablissement Berger or Rivollier) without having to have specialized workshops or lathes or milling machines, which served for both the fabrication of parts for guns and bicycles.

2. A la MFAC, les fabrications dont on revendique la précision sont testées sur route et font l’objet (…)
At MANUFRANCE the products which were made with precision and tested on the road and made the object of….


7. Et ces relations privilégiées tissées entre l’armurerie et l’industrie du cycle par les phénomènes de continuité technique et de complémentarité saisonnière, vont elles-mêmes susciter des pratiques similaires ou communes qui se retrouvent : au plan de l’organisation structurelle de branche (extrême division du travail inductrice d’une exceptionnelle spécialisation dans la fabrication des pièces détachées : panoplie complète des types d’unité de production depuis le limeur de cadres « en fenêtres » jusqu’à l’usine en passant par l’atelier familial ou le décorateur ambulant... ; adjonction d’activités complémentaires : machines à coudre, écrémeuses, pièces pour automobiles...) ; au plan de l’orientation commerciale et publicitaire (accent mis sur la qualité de la production, prouvée par l’application de systèmes de contrôle rappelant le Banc d’épreuve des armes2) ; au plan des localisations spatiales (juxtaposition des ateliers dans les arrière-cours des quartiers armuriers de Villebœuf et Saint-Roch avec cependant une extension du cycle vers le sud en direction de la plaine de Champagne) ; et même au plan de l’unité patronale (dans les premières années de création de la Chambre syndicale du cycle, partage les frais de location et de conciergerie avec la Chambre syndicale des armuriers ; banquets annuels communs ; ententes lors des élections à la Chambre de commerce...). Ce qui ne signifie pas pour autant que l’on puisse isoler l’histoire de l’industrie du cycle de cette autre composante fondamentale de l’identité stéphanoise qu’est l’industrie du ruban.

And these privileged relationships between the gun maker an the cycle industry by the phenomens of continuity of technique and seasonal complementation, themselves sustained similar practices in cities which could sustain them; from the point of view of structural organization of the subsidiaries (extreme division of work indicative of exceptional specialization in the fabrication of parts; large assortment of types of production that let to a flexible workforce such as the factory growing out of a family workshop….compatible industrial activities - sewing machines, parts of cars, cream separators, etc: A system of commercial and advertising orientation (with an accent on the quality of production and it’s testing such as the proof house of Saint Etienne), the local distribution of workshops (the juxtaposition of workshop in the backsides of the the gun-makers sections of Villeboef and Saint Roche with however an extension of cycle making towards the south in the direction of the Plain of Champagne)’ and even in the sector of the unity of management (in the first years of th creation of the Syndical Chamber of Cycles, sharing the location of and personal of the Syndicated Chamber of Comerce); This signifies nothing more than that one can isolate the history of the cycle industry and the other industries compositing the fundamental identity of the Stephanois and the industry of Valley of Ruban.
Posted by: Karl Graebner

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/10/18 04:03 PM

Argo,
Very interesting to see the gun makers that also made bikes. Thanks for sharing the list.
Karl
Posted by: Tim Carney

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/10/18 09:26 PM

Right, Dewey. I use my two Darne's and a Charlin regularly and, as a lefty, carry the shotgun with my trigger finger on the safety, slipping the safety up as I raise the arm to my shoulder with the finger then dropping to the triggers It's become almost as natural as using the safety behind the top lever.

Regards, Tim
Posted by: Ted Schefelbein

Re: Ted Schefelbein or other Darne gurus - 06/10/18 09:44 PM

Is the OP, Pete, left handed? I doubt it.

I am a lefty, and any but the button version of the sliding breech safety works well for a lefty, much like a Greener safety. I am not crazy about the safety in a Charlin, it has a rather stout leaf spring, and in the heat of the moment, I find it is sprung like a truck. The button safety was an attempt at a more righthanded friendly safety, that, wasn't that successful.

Intuitive use likely varies between upright hominids, I and a million or so other folks thought highly enough of the system to adapt to it. My R10 is second nature to me.

The guys who use a Darne well, want to use a Darne well. There are plenty of folks who do just fine with them.


Best,
Ted