No shortage of buyers and money, check out the results. Doesn't look like a down market to me.

Weak prices on English Best guns. Sad for all of us that own them.

Concur that some real bargains on English guns were had.

That said, I didn’t buy my English guns as investments, I brought them to use and the market does not change their value to me.

It will be interesting to see how the market evolves. If this one auction is a long term reflection of the market then I may yet be able to afford a pair of Purdey’s.

I am logged in on the Julia website, but can't find the prices realized, where are you finding them?

Prices will be posted on Monday.
As far as this being a trend, well this is the third auction in a row that English gun prices were really down.
When you can buy a trio of Boss RA self openers for 55K, well you fill the blank
My friend had a very nice Purdey pigeon gun that sold at bottom of the reserve. He lost money on a beautiful gun.
I still say, the Vintage craze is gone. When it first started in the early 90's any English gun out there could be sold.
Now 28 years later those guys are falling out of it.
Plus the two large collections that was dumped on the market in the last couple of years did not help either.
I bought mine because I liked them and always felt they would increase in value. Now, well I suppose my wife's next husband will have to deal with this problem.

Another question, with the recent prices set at these auctions will this now dictate what dealers and individuals get for their guns?
Outside a couple of Lots that sold. Like the pair of 10 gauge Woodwards is the auctions going to dictate prices going forward?

I see no drop in retail asking prices for English guns in the US. Of course a few dealers (6-10) control much of the supply and they can continue to keep "retail" prices high in the face of the auction results. Look at how long guns languish at Barnett's or G&H...many of them have been there for years.

It is interesting to contrast the results at Holt's with those at Julia's. A few years ago, Julia's was the place to sell your English Guns. Now prices appear stronger at Holt's. Maybe it's only my perception, but it will be interesting to see what happens at Bonham's next month.

If you looked at Holt's site before the auction the Sidelocks they had were not up to quality. Meaning some were rode hard and put up wet.
Most dealers that are listing guns are doing so on consignment so they have nothing to loose except for advertisment cost.
The possible next true test may be the Southern Side by Side event. We will see what is selling and how much is sold there.
I still stand by my statement, the vintage craze is over.
So then is English guns prices.
The good note is there may be deals coming out of all this.
Did anyone see how the Smiths, Parkers and Foxes and Winchesters did?

The lesson should be not to buy an English gun just because it is an English gun. Oh, the same can be said for a Parker.

Buy it because it is a nice shooter & then use it to shoot.
Too many collectors in this world ruin the experience for others by collecting for investment.
That is in any field.
I know a bloke with 50 anvils & he does no blacksmithing.
I also know young fella's who use a piece of railway track as an anvil.
I know a man with 600 guns & he never shoots any.
Collector prices were always gonna fall on their butt.
Artificial inflation.
O.M

Prices realized are posted.

Ken

II'm confused what is your piont?

Just a rant.
My point being that IMHO the prices are too high anyhow. Weak prices on English guns was a point in the discussion.
I have English guns to shoot with them. What they were actually made for.

High prices I feel have been driven by collectors who in some cases have 600 guns & shoot none. When such a collection comes on the market it sorts out what is a real price & what is not.

Maybe what is thought of as low prices is just becoming somewhat affordable to a man who wants to shoot the gun & that is my point.
O.M

Understanding global sporting arms market also helps. England for rifle and shotgun H&H, Purdey rifles Westley Richards, John Rigby, France shotguns Georges Granger rifles?, Belgium for rifles and shotguns Lebeau Courally, Shotguns custom grade Browning FN, Italy shotguns & rifles Beretta custom shop, shotguns Perazzi,......New versions or even order ones in very good shape will bring in money. Obviously buying something of quality with less or little known name will bring a lot less on resale.

Interestingly a piece does not have to come from company steeped in long history and tradition. Couple of examples would be Hartmann & Weiss or Peter Hofer. That is because the wealthy willing to spend a lot know what they are buying.

If you want something that resembles Holland & Holland Dominion from a distance and not pay a lot try Charles Lancaster's SLE from 1890 patent. Interesting gun but if you hope to profit in the future sale you ain't because not even Englishmen will settle for a 'Wristbraker'. Now with Kent of West Virginia coming out with 12ga 3/4oz 2.5" 1200fps load I think a 'Wristbreaker' would be wonderful choice for an American fellow, yes?

I don't know much about antique tools but I suspect something from Parker Bros. or Winchester would make gun guy reach for wallet a lot faster than antique Stanley though Stanley may be just as good or even better.

The English double rifles brought strong prices at Julia’s.

I didn’t watch any scatterguns. If their prices are down now is the best time to buy.

Curl

Palunc, can you tell us where the pair of 10 gauge Woodwards are or were offered? Thanks.

Sorry, if I said 10 gauge. It was the pair of Woodward 20 gauge O/U. First ones made by Purdey after they bought Woodward.
The prices reflected are including "Buyer's premium".
There were some nice deals bought there.
I also was looking at the three Winchester 21 round body guns.
If they had been offered on a dealer's site they would have been North of 10K. They sold well under that.
A nice Hussey long heavy choked barrels sold for 6K.
Cheap

I'm suprised at the prices on the Boss self openers. Was one of them out of proof?

Jagermeister, that's an interesting assessment of the double-gun market as you see it. Unfortunately, it should mean little or nothing to anyone here, because most of us realize that you don't even own any doubles, and that you are nothing but an internet fake who simply regurgitates what he reads elsewhere.

I'm surprised to see you admit that you know nothing about tools made by Winchester or Parker. I'd have expected you to pretend you were an expert on them too. You should stick to things you really are an expert on, such as your toy stuffed animal collection and eating kishkas.

I see you're still IGNORING my posts Gregory. If your photo expresses how I've made you feel, then you've made me a happy guy!

I really enjoyed your recent "I'm Done" crybaby farewell thread. I would have enjoyed it even more if you had actually did what you said you were going to do. It was really cool to see your cry for sympathy, and how you never really left. There was enough estrogen in your actions to supply a thousand menopausal women with hormone replacement therapy.

I guess you can't read or is it comprehension? so I'll refresh your memory. I said and quote "So, I won't "IGNORE" you anymore" from this post:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post508756

I guess you can't get it through your thick skull, people are tired of YOU and your attacks. Are you that dense or just stupid?

You really never were IGNORING me Gregory. That was just more of your feminine whining, much like your overly emotional "I'm Done" farewell thread, which was nothing more than an obvious cry for sympathy.



I feel bad for you Gregory. Really. Would you like a tissue?

Get lost! Interesting thread until you stepped in (as always) so I'm not commenting anymore on your pitiful attempts at insults.

Keith, you can upgrade from Dan's of Syracuse, NY to 151 New Bond Street, London......
Chat Lancasters 'Wristbraker'....
The complexity of design is testimonial to British gun making prowess of the Golden Age...Englishe doppelflinten mit seitslossen, gut!

Jagermeister, you can upgrade slightly from being an internet fake and pathetic tire-kicker by actually spending a few dollars to buy any old junk Crescent or JABC.

Maybe Gregory can loan you some pictures of his guns so you can post them and lie to us once again about how you bought them.

PS. Look, what I showed was kind of expensive and I understand that. Vintage Doubles have more affordable ones at their site.

Tomorrow is Palm Sunday Happy Easter to you.

Mose's post above puts it well. Collecting for the most part is nothing more than hoarding.

The sidelock ejector was turned into a fetish and that in turn brought on a flood of copies which kind of diminished the vintage status of the originals.

Arguably true vintage items are the ones that are no longer made and represent their era, ie a 1930s Cord car. From that point of view a 1930 pump is more deserving the vintage description since it is typical of its era and there are no modern repros.

English may not be the language of choice for some of us, so Jay's "Prince of Whales" stocks and Jaegermeister's "wristbraker" Lancaster are errors of spelling or word choice that are to be excused by those of us whose first language is English.

Thanks, Bill. My mother, an inshore fisherman's daughter, erred with grammar. I didn't notice until I was older that my father, a man of words, did not correct her. My parents were love bugs. It's disrespectful under any circumstances to call out slips. No one is perfect and we're all smart in different ways.

Your, funnie King?


____________________________
Hockey players know two languages. English and cussing. Gordie Howe

So what are we to think when Bob Cash attempts to insult John Roberts by suggesting that something he posted was "IMBYCILIC"?

I simply thought it was Bob's way of showing us once again that he (Bob) is an imbecile. That was precious... karma in the purest sense of the word.

Well said!

Eyeronic?

(Not picking sides, Bob. Remember me in you’re will)


_________________________
Isn’t it ironic? Don’t you think? Alanis Morissette

Gentlemen:

I'm not sure how some of the responses in this thread have anything to do with the Julia auction. Should there perhaps be a separate thread for conflicts?

Just another thread pulled into the ridiculous.

I guess no offerings of "unsold" lots this time.

I suppose the "unsold" lots are headed back to their consigners or on to the next auction with Morphy's. Which would be the first auction since Morphys bought Julia's.

I'm waiting. However, some bidders don't wait for the list, and make offers before the list comes out. Already, some "no sales" have amounts posted.

1dog you are right. I was told by Julia's that no unsold lots will be listed. I assume they want the guns to end up at the next Morphy Auction at 20% buyers fee instead of 15%!!!

I am concerned about losing Julia's. I thought they were excellent.

From what I have seen it would taken a huge leap for Morphy to come anywhere near the pictures and description/information on their auctions that Julia's have had. When looking at Morphy sporting arms sales in the past I thought their pictures and descriptions were pitiful - and now the buyers fee goes from 15% to 20%.

I hope Morphy can raise their game. I know that some of the senior staff with Julia's are transitioning to Morphy.

If we lose the Archives from Julia's website, we will be losing a great tool for buyers and collectors. I'm not sure Morphy's is ready to be that customer friendly. If you want to bid on an unsold item, just call them and make an offer.

I hope that the pis---ng contest here is over. I wonder if Jim's Brother in Law will also move on to Morphy's? I was really disappointed when they came to look at my collection and lowballed every thing even though my request had gone out to Julia's. I am now looking toward Rock Island and Heritage Auctions. Any thoughts on either would be appreciated.

Best Regards, George

No thoughts on either Rock Island or Heritage auctions.

Regards to Julia's "lowballing." Well that is just their estimate. Julia's do not buy the guns. The bidding public at an auction is who in the end determines what the gun was worth on that date/time.

Bill,

I think Morphy has screwed the pooch. I just now tried to access some links to Julia auction listings I had bookmarked. They were all there before the "merger", but now the links are no good.

I'm not finding the Julia archives at all. I hope I have just searched incorrectly, but I think not.

Looks like my auction dabbling has hit a wall! They can keep the stuff if it has come to this. I was a big Julia fanboy, and they got a lot of my money. Sad day.

Curl

CptCurl,

You can get to the past auction archives. However, you can't search the entire repository. You have to search auction by auction.

I use this link JJ archives.

Ken

Searching auction by auction is absolutely bogus. That's not what I want to do. For decades, I have searched the entire past auction history. That's what I want to do now.

So this development begs the question. Does limiting access to previous auction results encourage higher future prices (and thus commissions)?

Depends on whether prices are on upward or downward trend. Hard to tell. Perhaps they're just tired of being used as "free appraisal service" for those not using their services.

Agree, but that is what is available right now. Send them an email to fix it.

Ken

Amen, brother!

FWIW, Poulin's is advertising for people to consign to them.

"If we lose the Archives from Julia's website, we will be losing a great tool for buyers and collectors. I'm not sure Morphy's is ready to be that customer friendly. If you want to bid on an unsold item, just call them and make an offer."

For what it's worth, I spoke with Josh Lowensteiner yesterday and was told that the Julia's archives are being retained by Morphy's, and are in the process of being transferred to the Morphy's network. He wasn't sure how long this transition might require; but assured me this archival information would not be discarded.

Topgun,

Thanks for talking to Josh. I sent an email to Morphy, but they haven't responded yet.

Ken

Vintage is a burden to most shooters/hunters. They prefer easily serviceable shotguns that can be fitted via shims or inexpensive adjustable or bolted stocks, steel proof barrels and screw in chokes. Like a poster said a while ago, a good gun is the one that makes you smile when you pick it up and not cry when you drop it, and that excludes classics and vintage guns.

Add to that laws that mandate FFL (USA) or dealer to dealer licensed shipping (EU) and the downward trend is understandable.

Morphy auctions emailed me back concerning the capability to search all Julia's auction at once. They are working to provide this feature and hope to have it done by Oct. They are trying to get it done before the fall firearms auction. They will not incorporate the previous Morphy's auction with this database.

Ken

If Morphy puts that info up that would be mighty nice of them.

My experience has been that if you ever actually bought anything from Julia's that Julia's made sure you had their Catalogues for their following/upcoming auctions.

Morphy/Julia has a big gun auction coming up June 25-28 with the catalog online. I must say, descriptions and photographs are not up to Julia's standards of recent years.

Has anyone received a print catalog?

Curl

Don't have a print catalogue, CptCurl but hoping someone can help me. Looking at Morphy's site for the first time since they took over Julia's and having a had time getting the on line bidding catalogue to sort for shotguns.

It looks like I should be able to effectively search "shotguns" in title and description but when I do, it's just a jumble of stuff. Any tips?

Pictures in the digital catalog leave some to be desired. Pretty low resolution if you are trying to draw bids for high dollar items.

CB,

I went to pre-bidding online. When I typed in shotgun for the search, I got back MOSTLY shotguns; a few lever action non-shotguns were thrown. It definitely isn't the same as searching Julia's catalog.

Ken

Thanks Ken.

I had told my wife that if I should unexpectedly keel over she probably should liquidate most of my collection with Julia's.

Plans have changed.

Curl

P.S. I'm not planning to keel over anytime soon.

You know, there just has to be a way to absolutely and positively take our favorite sxs's with us!
Karl