Anyone have any info on a maker or shop of a G Selzer, Riaille Fr.? Nice light 16 sxs. Boxlock w/ steel bls. Has barrelmaker mark of JG.

Photos please. Selzer ("Seltzer"?) is the retailer. Might "JG" be JB?


Here is an example of some squiggly things on your gun which might help us:

St etienne proof smokeless with 2 1/2 ch, reproved suhl with 23/4. decarbonized steel barrels definitely marked J G.,does have "rectifie/J D" also on the flats.
G. Selzer, Riaille on the triggerplate. I havent found any reference for shops or makers in Riaille.

Chambered for? in mm or cm? Posting a photo is not hard.

There a pretty simple site on the web which I'm now using to post pictures and you don't even have to sign in or get an account. (account is free if you do want to sign up).
-- Pull up www.postimage.org.
-- Drag your photo to box entitled "choose images"...wait till a series of formulas appear.

-- Choose the one third from bottom entitled "hotlink for forums" and just click on it and select copy from your edit button on the top of your screen.

-- Then just post the copied link into your text.

in mm. I had not replaced phbucket but will try your link.

simple gun with nice lines that someone (maker/ or owner) put their name on. Don't know who he was but his eye is appreciated.

16 ga (17.0 - bore in mm), 2 1/2 inch ("65"), opened to 2 3/4 ("16/70") in Germany (that's a German 16/70 stamp) and reproofed in Suhl August '43, shield (for Suhl) and two eagles (Eagle +J = repair, Eagle +N = nitro proof), then the date ("843"). Proofed after opening the chambers, thus, the "repair" proof. Probably "Beute" - booty - taken back to Germany during Occupation, possibly from the factory/retailer, and had to be reproofed before entering the stream of commerce.

I'm willing to bet that if it hasn't been sanded off at some point, there will be a monogram-ish "SuS" stamp somewhere, probably not that conspicuous, on the buttstock. You'll have to look closely. That SuS would be the logo of Sauer Und Sohn (Sauer and Son). Every one of these "back-to-Germany" French guns I've seen has had the SuS stamp somewhere. I speculate Sauer had a deal (probably as a contractor with expertise in this field) with the then-government(s) of Germany (and possibly France, possibly Vichy - don't know whether St. Etienne was in Vichy or not) to take over and distribute/sell these French guns, possibly as some form of reparations/payment in kind for the occupation. If St. Etienne was in Vichy, in 1940 this gun may have been in process under an order for the retailer marked on it, and left sitting around the factory undeliverable after the events of that year, then looted to Germany sometime before August 43.

That is definitely a "J.G." on the lower rib. "JB" (as shown upthread) would be the stamp for French barrelmaker Jean Breuil. J.G., I have no idea.

Excellent info Dave. Saint Etienne was part of Vichy - Riaille located in Loire-Atlantique department was not. Since the retailer's name is on the gun, I suspect it was confiscated in Loire-Atlantique Department and sent to Germany from there. Riaille is a small place but is an agricultural cross-roads and it would be logical to have had a hardware store/armurerie there in the 1930's. A search of ads in the newspapers of the region in the 1930's would probably turn up some advertisements of sorts.



Might"J.G." may Jean Gaucher?; He was well known in Saint Etienne located at 12 rue Docteur Cordier: Here are several advertisements from Naturabuy.fr for a Gaucher fusil de chasse - unfortunately French sellers on Naturabuy are bad photographers it seems - only one picture of the underside of a barrel and it's so blurry you can't confirm whether it has "J.G.":

https://www.naturabuy.fr/Fusil-gaucher-item-4532732.html
https://www.naturabuy.fr/Gaucher-Cal-12-70-Fabrication-St-Etienne-item-4445554.html
https://www.naturabuy.fr/fusil-juxtapose-item-3229546.html
https://www.naturabuy.fr/juxtapose-gaucher-item-3058576.html
https://www.naturabuy.fr/vends-fusil-GAUCHER-mod-Tarzan-cal-16-70-item-4252111.html

Gaucher has been mentioned before - hewas in Business in Saint Etienne beginning in 1837....sometime in the 1970's he combined with Bretton and the firm is now known as Bretton-Gaucher. His guns from about 1950's on were marked "Manufacture Stéphanoise d’Armes J . Gaucher, St. Etienne: Don't know what the marks were pre-WWII or what the marks were if he made only the barrels.


Here is a bill of lading from 1909:

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