How much leading would you expect, or better yet, have you experienced, in chrome lined bores when using shells loaded with nickel plated (true electrolysis plated) shot ...............when NOT using a plastic shot cup that encloses the pellets?

SRH

Since no one else will bite... My 16 gauge pheasant load uses nickel plated shot with the very short SG16 wad. I definitely notice more leading in the bores after shooting this load in my FAIR over/under with chrome lined bores. I do not notice as much leading with the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant shells with a slightly longer wad and nickel plated shot, even though the shot cup does not extend to the top of the shot column. I hope this helps.

It does, indeed. I guess I was hoping that the nickel plating, or the chrome lining, or combination of both, helped lessen the amount of leading. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Maybe some others have noticed something they can add.

SRH

Might be the leading just shows up better in the chromed bores. And cleans up easier as well...Geo

It does clean up much easier for sure.

A Frontier pad wrapped around a bore brush and spun through the bore with a electric drill will quickly remove any remaining.

Thanks to all. I am trying to get a full 3/4 oz. of hard nickel plated #8 shot into a WW .410 HS hull, and it looks like the only way to do it is to eliminate the petaled shot cup, and just use the base part of the wad without the petals. I can get about .72 oz. in, using the red WW wad, but even it has the top third of the load exposed to the bore, above the wad petals. I may load a few without any petals just to see how much it will hold, and how they pattern. I've got a feeling I won't like the patterns, but we'll see.

The WW 3/4 oz. .410 loads have a full 3/4 oz. in them, but it is not plated shot, so weighs a little more. Therein should be the difference between the .75 oz. in them and the .72 in mine.

The reason for wanting the full 3/4 oz. is that one of my S x S guns is regulated only with a 3/4 oz. load at about 1100 fps. I'm trying to duplicate that with hard nickeled shot.

SRH

Stan, a mylar wrap inserted inside the hull inside the wad extending upwards outside the wad containing the shot outside the cup may contain the shot long enough to help avoid barrel scrubbing. It's worth a try. BP sells a thin wrap. Gil

Have you got any Remington 3" hulls? They seem to have more internal room in them. Remington at one time sold a full length wads for their 3" hull. They no longer sell them for reloading. I never like having shot above the mouth of the wads but in some loads you have no other option. Good luck in your quest.

BP lists two wads that might help. The Stretch 36 which holds .5 to 11/16 oz and the TPS. The TPS is the one I told you about in a PM. I barely got .5 oz of lead 8's in it so 1/3 of the load would be above the wad. The specs on the Stretch 36 don't appear to be better than the TPS as it's depth is less. The TPS's depth to gas seal is 1.8" and the Stretch is shorter.
I have experience with 13/16 oz of tungsten shot in the TPS and note that even though the load is to the top of the wad, the shot imprint on a fired wad is only 2/3rds the length suggesting (to me, anyway) that there is considerable set back on ignition driving the shot deeper into the cup indicating the same may occur to lead shot outside the cup in your loads as it presses into the plastic down and outward. Gil

I do have some Remingtons, Jon. I may try the same load in a few to see what they will hold. I also have some RIOs and Fiocchis.

Gil, I have some of the mylar wrap left over from 10 ga. shorties years ago. I'd just have to trim it to fit. Thing is, it would take up nearly the same amount of space as the petals on a wad does, maybe a tad less, as it's pretty thin. Good point about the imprinting on the upper part of the petals.

Thanks, guys. SRH

Shot cup petals should "Never" extend beyond the shot, better to be a bit shy. When the petals extend beyond he shot they are encased in the fold of the crimp, whether roll or pie. This presents a very real possibility of the wad being retarded before the crimp can open. There is then a distinct possibility of Max camber pressures being increased, perhaps to a dangerous level. There is a very good reason wad makers keep their petals a bit shorter than for the intended shot load they are designed for. I didn't dream this up, it came from a ballistician in a ballistics lab, just don't at present recall the lab.

On specialty loads that I use where the shot wouldn't normally reach the top of the cup, felt and or cork spacers are placed in the bottom of the wads to raise the shot level. These are ballistic laboratory tested loads and are well within SAAMI pressure limits.

Chrome is hard and protective to steel from oxidizing. It is not necessarily smooth, unless specifically made so. Most industrial Chrome is matte in finish. My experience is that a well polished steel bore leads less than an as plated chrome bore.

I have to openly admit that what you say makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

AND even tho I've a limited reloading experience with only about 500,000 behind me, I've not seen a wad that would allow even a modest length of petal in the crimp that could actually be crimped and look like something one would want to put in a gun. I've loaded maybe 200K 24gm loads in 28gm shotcups and have never seen or felt or whatever any indication of high pressure and those were close to max or max loads to start with.

If you'd care to pay for it I can supply you with any number of similar loads for pressure testing.

I notice that several responders have mentioned mylar shot wraps. Decades ago I worked in a life-test lab, mostly doing work on electric motors. We used mylar to test the abrasion resistance of the steel shafts in the motors. With the slightest bit of anything between the mylar and the steel, the shaft would get chewed to pieces. I don't put mylar in my barrels.

The risk of the use of mylar increasing the likelihood of scratching barrels is pretty remote. The risk of barrels being scratched by what the mylar wrap is attempting to isolate, steel or solid tungsten shot, is far greater. Mylar has been an accepted component in preventing harder-than-lead shot breaking through soft plastic cups. I have yet to see evidence of scoring or scratching while using mylar. Gil

Frankly Wonko, I do not care if this makes any sense to you or not. As I said when I posted it I didn't think it up, it was stated by a well known ballistian who worked in the lab of a major US ammunition maker. Good enough for me & it made perfect sense.

The petals on most 28 gram wads are short enough to contain a 24 gram shot load so you likely have never even encountered the problem anyway

This was written primarily for those who shoot very light shot charges in a wad designed for a heavier load in their desire for "Low" pressure, such as 3/4 oz in a 1 or 1 1/8 oz shotcup.
If the shot does not fill the cup then a filler needs to be placed beneath it rather than allowing the cup petals to protrude beyond the shot.

I appreciate the reminder, Miller. But, I will probably never be one who tries to load too little in a shell. I'm often on the other end, trying to get one last little bit of performance out of one.

I never even knew there was a WW loading of 3/4 oz. for a .410 until KYJon clued me in a few weeks ago. But, it is an awesome load .........patterns beautifully on my plate out of my Dickinson, and smashes clays farther than I would have ever dreamed of with a 67 gauge.

I can't wait until next dove season. https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/ge...mp;font=cursive

SRH

Im with Wonko. Aint no way a long wad would do anything significant to pressure. You can crimp a shell then glue it shut and the worst thing that will happen is you might lose a piece of the crimp fold. Loaded hundreds of rds using large wads with reduced shot and filler on top of wad. Worst case, the filler on top blows the pattern, but skeet birds never seem to care.

All I did was to pass along info stated by a technician wring n a Ballistics Lab, I suspect he knew a bit more about the subject than Me, You & Wonko combined. Follow it or ignore it, no skin off my back either way, I just passed it along.

The problem here is I think two fold & does make perfect sense.
1st, when the crimp folds down around the projecting petals of the wad it creates a resistance to the wads moving
2nd, with the light shot load the wad is not compressed to its normal extent leaving the wad "Stiffer" than normal.

According to this lab this has definitely been "Proven" to raise pressures to a excessive level. Do with it as you Jolly Well please, personally I will follow their advise.

I can only say it again - neither of those contentions make any sense to me at all. How any of that could have an effect greater than the different crimps and really significant differences in crimp depth I've seen and made is quite beyond me. I'd like to see a 3/4oz loaded in a 1 1/8 cup and crimped to look like anything approaching normal. No way that crimp is going to do anything but fold right into the case.
I'm perfectly willing to be convinced otherwise - show me the pix of the loads and the data.

Stan - I thot I blew out $/time on stupid projects but you got me by miles. Flip that tiny crap and get a decent 28ga. BTW where'd you score the trigger for the tank model Perazzi finally?

Well, Charles, my definition of stupid and yours are miles apart, is all I can say. If you had ever been on a dove shoot with maybe 20-25 other guns, been the only one shooting a .410, and also been the first man off the field with a full limit you might understand.

I bought a new Italian trigger made by Marcello Giuliani. Rackley fitted it to my gun, which required a bit more than I was able to do because of the age of my gun. Mine is an early Winchester import. I shot a round of sporting with it yesterday morning. Wonderful trigger.

http://www.donrackleygunparts.com/#

SRH

yes - I've gotten several things from Marcello directly. Lovely work.
I certainly have to admire your shooting skills tho your choice of guns is questionable hahaha

What’s better about the Giuliani trigger? The generic Perazzi triggers, even the old ones seem to be pretty good triggers. Just wondering....

I don't recall anybody saying they are better, buzz. Who said that?

I have no reason to think they're better than an original Perazzi trigger. But......... they are in stock in Texas, and can be had at a moments notice. And, they are mighty fine quality.

Maybe original Perazzi parts can be had quickly, too. I dunno.

SRH

No one here said that. I guess I just assumed you were upgrading. Are they mechanical or inertia? All the old perazzi triggers are inertia.

They're inertia, and are made exactly like the originals, as far as I can tell. My original is at Philip's, with the left sear being recut, to become my spare. I wasn't trying to upgrade. I really don't think that is possible. I was just wanting a new trigger that had never been messed with to be my everyday trigger. I am extremely pleased with what I got.

Take a look at Don's website. I included a link on an earlier post. There are pics of the different models available.

All my best, SRH

I looked at the photos. They all appear to be inertia. I think precision gold puts out a mechanical trigger for a Perazzi. Ever tried one of those? I haven’t shot one of the mechanical triggers but I’d like to just to see.

Never have, buzz. My original Perazzi trigger lasted a long, long time. I had borrowed a trigger out of a friend's gun a few times when mine was doubling, but this is the first Perazzi "trigger group " I have ever bought.

Thinking about it, I really have no reason to want to go to a mechanical trigger. Mine has never failed to reset. Not once. The only issue I have ever had was the second sear (top barrel) letting go on recoil from the bottom barrel, and that has nothing to do with whether it is inertia or mechanical.

SRH

Thanks Stan. I just read on trapshooter.com that Rackley can convert a Perazzi or Giuliani trigger to mechanical. Only advantage I would really see would be for sub gauge, especially the .410. Having said that, I do like the wonderful Krieghoff mechanical trigger even for the 12 ga.

A mechanical would be an advantage if you were using sub gauge tubes, I guess. I shoot different guns in sub gauge, so don't need that.

Don is one of the nicest people I have ever dealt with. A true gentleman.

SRH

At different times I was told by Giacomo and Lucio both to avoid Perazzi triggers converted to mechanical. They both seemed to consider the basic design not amenable to that conversion. The two mechanical triggers I've seen did not impress me. The gold thing may be different, I don't know. Perazzi has available a number of different weight inertia blocks and they can be installed to accommodate the lightest loads.