Convo on a different thread got me thinking about this again...figured I'd canvas the clubhouse crowd.

Is it known why some Krupp barrels DON'T say Essen?

Is it because those that don't were made in Belgium under license? And those marked Essen were made there?

Also, i have seen 2 sources which state that Krupp steel was made under license after 1893 by Bethlehem and Crucible. But neither identifies the purposes for which it was licensed. So while rails would seem most likely...has anyone uncovered any source stating these American makers made Krupp tubes for the U.S. trade?

- NDG

Actually, Krupp only provided bar stock to a mechanic who thru his craft could transform the bar stock into a rough bored tube. So it is possible I guess that the bar stock was per a Krupp recipe under license of course, but at a different facility than Essen. Now tracing the rough bored tubes would be another task entirely. But pre-WWI the bulk, if not all, were transformed by the Liege mechanics.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Krupp has/had many plants. They made great steel for barrels! Unfortunatly a lot of it went to big bores, cannon. I believe Essen was their lead plant for barrel steel.

bill

Interesting “Fluid Steel-Krupp Essen” with Armor Steel overstamp on a 1918 Field Grade.



Krupp barrels were cataloged as an available option by Hunter Arms 1900-1905, likely manufactured by license to Laurent Lochet-Habran & Acier Cockerill Liege.

Carnegie and Bethlehem Steel were licensed to manufacture Krupp steel plate in 1897
New York Times Nov. 7th, 1897
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9A00E5DA123CE433A25754C0A9679D94669ED7CF

Arms and the Man, April 8, 1915, Fred Adolph, “More About Gun Barrel Steel”
https://books.google.com/books?id=EpcwAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA25&lpg
“Krupp makes 200 kinds of steels”

My Fox 16 (1915) has KRUPP marked barrels. I have had a couple other Foxes (12 and 20) marked KRUPP. No Essen marks.

Ok, so great observations thus far guys.

But does anyone have any sense, or even theory, as to why some have Essen and others don't?

NDG

Maybe the bar stock was made in Essen or it was a holdover for a place of origin? My wild, rampant speculation would be that if Essen is present that the bar stock was made in Essen and then the bar stock was shipped to wherever. If Essen is absent, then the bar stock is of the same recipe but licensed to another facility outside of Essen. I'll dig a bit and is there a time frame when "Essen" was present & when it was not? Or is it just sporadic?

Jn. Henry Andrews Toledo Steel Works Sheffield advertise on tubes as Sheffield but I'm hard pressed to believe the bar stock came to Liege from Sheffield? But it is possible of course.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

The barrels on my Lefever 51xxx say "Krupp fluid steel" ...no Essen. So figure very roughly 1905 timeline. But as we know the timeline can be slippery with Lefevers.

What production years do others have for both their Essen and non-Essen guns?

NDG

Nudge, I think some of it will depend on “how -and where”
If you are referring to the bottom of the barrels as pictured above that is a specific trademark. I believe I have seen papers previously posted by Dr. Drew Hause reference that trademark and proper usage. If you are referring to engraving on the top of the barrels “Krupp Fluid Steel- Lefever Arms Co “ that is not the official trademarking and doesn’t really have a convention. It also doesn’t guarantee they are truly Krupp.

Marks, I am referring to what is written on the BOTTOM of the breech end of the barrels.

On both sides of the lug it says "Krupp fluid steel."

NDG

On top could be various phrases in various languages. Here's a few German examples:

Flußstahl Krupp Essen
Kruppscher Flußstahl
Prima Flußstahl
Lauf-Stahl Krupp AG Essen(Post 1909).

But on the underside of the tubes, the mechanic who converted the tube from Krupp bar stock, more than likely applied the phrase in the language of the recipient of the rough bored tubes. Maybe circa 1909 was the time when Krupp passed & since he didn't have a male heir or assign, that the term Essen was dropped? The company was converted to a shareholder variant.

Maybe the mechanics @ Liege just lost the Essen die?

Krupp was an odd duck, more than likely had a few nuts backed off or may have even lost some of his marbles. He believed that the scent of fresh horse manure led to creative thinking. So he had that horse quarters built adjacent to his quarters and piped in the scent to his room sealed by steel doors. Piped it in w/ Krupp Flußstahl tubes....

Cheers,

Raimey
rse