Got back from Pennsylvania last night. Lots of snow and cold makes for a very White Christmas for the family, but it still would have been fun just to get out and walk with a birdgun (even if it was just force of habit). Evidently, folks now pay real-money to stand in a super-refrigerated room (in warmer climes obviously) just to treat various afflictions? It supposedly re-sets your autonomous functions in your central nervous system, amongst other things. Seems a bit silly to me, but what do I know? I like to do it because it reminds me now of people and places long-gone. I like the sounds and smells and the memories it still elicits. It gives me a unique perspective that I don't seem to otherwise find (it also gets me out of a small house, full of adolescents).
This year was a bit different, however...
Lloyd;
Good to see your ML'er actually looks like a ML'er & not a 700
Rem or similar. What, no variable power scope & a flinter, no less. Surely this is a posed shot with a prop gun, no self respecting ML'er would hunt with a gun like that anymore.
Nice buck. Despite 2-piper's modernistic bent, I respect your choice of hardware...Geo
Yes, I know Miller was kiddin'
Nine point with a side-kicker?
That's all you're allowed in PA this time of year. Good shooting Lloyd.
Thanks Treb! Finally got my money's worth out of an out-of-state deer tag there.
Mr. Newbern: you are very perceptive. He's a 9-pointer (well formed 8 with one out the back). Easily the biggest buck I've ever killed.
Pennsylvania mandates a "primitive" form of muzzleloading for most of the season there. I guess the in-line stuff can now be used in a very restricted time-frame earlier in the year?
This was the during the ride back to Cleveland Hopkins yesterday. Eight degrees below zero here (in Kinzua country).
Hunted in the first PA Flintlock season, (and many since), with the same TC Hawken Rifle as pictured. Always was glad PA has kept the flintlock season rather than open it up to inlines.
A time of the year for real men to hunt with a real rifle.
Way to go Lloyd.
come on ....a decent flinter would have a gun with a buck horn rear site and brass front blade..not that modernistic click adjustable crap.....
Let's see your deer.....
Best,
Ted
Its still an open iron sight and yea, let's see your deer you got with your flinter.
Love that pic Lloyd.
I know, I know...this gun was a Christmas gift from a young women I was seeing many years ago (35 now? Bless her for knowing me so-well). We did not marry, but I do remember her fondly. It's the only left-handed version flinter that I've ever run-across that was semi-affordable (an Italian-made Charles Daily). I was at Dixon's Muzzleloaders near Allentown just last summer and I could see investing in a bit-nicer version someday. Being a southpaw has limited my options to having one commissioned to fit my needs exactly (swamped barrel, minimal furniture, etc.) but until then this one seems to serve my needs quite nicely.
Talk about climate-change (!), yet another tough January day here in Colorado:
I agree, if you're a left hander your options are very limited in a flinter. Limited pretty much to the one you have or a Lyman GPR, not much else.
Very nice Lloyd. I'm still trying with the flintlock, and holding out for a buck until the last couple days. Sounds like next week is going to be even colder than this week. It's the best time of the year to be out, and you can often hunt all day without ever seeing another hunter. After all of the other seasons are over, the deer are as spooked and wary as they will ever be. It really is an accomplishment to get a nice buck with a flinter now. I haven't flushed even one grouse in regular firearms or flintlock deer season, which is very unusual and troubling.
I too am glad that Pennsylvania never ruined the muzzleloader season by permitting anything other than flintlocks. They do have a one week early muzzleloader season in October that permits the use of in-lines and percussion guns, but that is a doe season only. Very appropriate, because you have to be a female or have female traits to hunt with an in-line anyway.
What kind of rifle is that? I know the patchbox is not T/C.
Edit: I see you have identified the left hand flinter.
Nice job, Lloyd.
A lung shot that entered the right side? Bullet or patched round ball?
SRH
Hi Stan, not one of my finer moments sadly. The animal was quartering away from me to my left and I didn't lead him properly (to account for the extra time a flintlock ignition takes). The .45 sabot hit him way too-far back and it required a finishing shot. He's a mess on the other side. If I ever were to commission a gun, I would need to move the sights down the barrel a bit to keep things in better focus (saw some like that at Dixons & liked 'em.)
Keith:
I am really sorry to hear that you're not seeing any grouse back there as I never even cut a track this year. I wasn't ever in what I would call classic grouse cover, but still...it is troubling. Penn's woods in winter was always a treat to hunt grouse in over Christmas break as it was always great fun to get outdoors in the brisk weather and have it all to yourself. Easily the high point of the season for me back then. I do hope the Game Commission actually figures this out for a change.
On the good-news side of things, last year the weight of my flinter was actually something of a problem due to my lower back issues. This year was night and day different. If anything I seem to be doing better over time, which is very heartening considering that I turn 60 tomorrow. Stem-cells are something of a minor-miracle in my book now.
Good for you, Lloyd. Should make Grousemas easier, as well.
Best,
Ted
Hello Lloyd:
Tell us more about stem cells! I am falling apart and need help. At least you have access to medical mj for pain management where you live! Here, it is not available.
Have a great New Year,
Franchi
Lloyd;
I'm just messin with you....Nice deer and nice gun....I stopped hunting deer years ago....don't have the heart for it anymore along with CWD all over the place here...
BTW I have a Austin Halleck flint and percussion..They are nice guns for production guns.....cant remember if they made any lefties or not....
Nice buck Lloyd and a great time to be out in the woods. No late MZ season for me this year. The place I hunt moved the season to Oct. Then re-opened it in Dec. after saying it would be closed. I would have bought a tag had I known. Great character in that rack too, love the kicker.
Franchi: They are calling it "restorative medicine" out here and using it on just about any type of pain-inducing structural damage in the body. In my case, they drilled a hole in my hip and extracted bone-marrow (they then concentrate the adult stem-cells by centrifuging the marrow) to treat a spinal-stenosis induced (along with a bad fall) problem with my L3-L4 facet joints. Insurance won't cover it (of course!) so it's an out-of-pocket expense of $4 to 5K. CBD oil (a non-THC marijuana) was probably my next stop if this hadn't worked.
Nice buck! Wow! A little late in the year to be hanging onto the antlers.
It has long been said, with a lot of justice, that anyone who gets a deer during PA's post-Christmas flintlock season has both earned that deer and a lot of recognition for their hunting skill. Well done!
On the LH flintlock - I've seen LH lock sets and kits for sale on one or another of the websites of suppliers of such to DIY types. Also, at the Oaks, PA gun show this past spring I came across an antique arms collector display of OG flintlocks that included a LH rifle. I have a pic in my phone, somewhere.
Lloyd,
Nice dear and you certainly earned it in this weather. Though I am a Pennsylvanian, flintlocks (muzzleloaders in general) seem to be the one firearms niche I haven't delved into. Heaven knows I don't need another interest pulling at the purse strings. I like to think of them as something I'm "saving" for when I get a bit older and have a bit more patience. I suppose time will tell...
Congratulations again...
Gentlemen, Thank you!
I'd love to take credit for being a steely-eyed Chingachgook or even an Uncas, but alas...most of the credit goes to my local brother-in-law who knew where to go and when. He'd already gotten his buck in the regular rifle season, but knew where this deer was reportedly running. I would have happily settled for a nice fat doe if this fellow hadn't stepped onto the scene when he did. It was just dumb luck on my part, and little more. In my experience, successful hunting is so many-times nothing more than just being-there, getting up and then getting out. It is what keeps me going, keeps me moving, and... it ultimately keeps me involved, interested, and fully alive. I plan to do it (along with casting a fly rod or two) as long as I physically can.
Gentlemen, Thank you!
I'd love to take credit for being a steely-eyed Chingachgook or even an Uncas, but alas...most of the credit goes to my local brother-in-law who knew where to go and when. He'd already gotten his buck in the regular rifle season, but knew where this deer was reportedly running. I would have happily settled for a nice fat doe if this fellow hadn't stepped onto the scene when he did. It was just dumb luck on my part, and little more. In my experience, successful hunting is so many-times nothing more than just being-there, getting up and then getting out. It is what keeps me going, keeps me moving, and... it ultimately keeps me involved, interested, and fully alive. I plan to do it (along with casting a fly rod or two) as long as I physically can.
That is certainly true of the Pennsylvania firearms deer seasons...
Lloyd;
Happy to here PA has held on to their primitive weapons hunt. At one point in time I believe that KY also had one, don't know if they still do or not. TN has simply gone to ML'er hunts only & inline's have taken over. One would be hard put to find a "Real" ML'er at a local store anywhere near my area I believe, would have to build one or mail order it. I built my only ML'er rifle back around 1968-70, a Lancaster Co PA style long rifle though not an exact copy, just the general lines. At that point we did not have a ML'er deer hunt in my part of the state so built a .45 cal round ball gun (66" twist Douglas bbl). Although I am aware deer have been killed with a .45 round ball & even a .40 for that matter I consider these a bit light for deer so have not pushed it as such.
I'm seriously considering having true longrifle built for deer hunting (mostly in PA, but I believe I could occasionally use it out here as well). Since I really like to walk in the woods (I get cold when I just sit in ambush) I'd like to see if I can create something that is as long, light, & lovely as some of my more-favored birdguns. My reasoning along those lines would be to first...try to keep the caliber down around .45 (the legal minimum in PA and maybe other states as well?) to help manage barrel-weight (tapered or "swamped" barrels would likely help here too). I would also focus on the more-minimalist & petite schools of muzzle-stuffers (Pennsylvania Schimmels, Tennessee Beans, etc.) as things like patch-boxes and other adornment tend to only add weight and cost. I'm frustrated by the lock-time on my pre-fabbed Hawken clone and I'm seeing much better results from the more hand-made stuff. Much to learn here. These guns are a spectacular history lesson when you finally dig into them.
Miller, a .45 roundball will shoot clean through a 200 lb. whitetail, side to side lung shot. I killed a 200+ lb. buck once with a .54 roundball that entered his white neck patch and exited under his rt. hind leg. Absolutely wasted everything in between.
Lloyd, I have a .36 cal. Appalachian Po' Boy longrifle (squirrel rifle with a 42" barrel), very little furniture, and that which it does have is all iron. It ain't a deer rifle, but I once killed a buck with it with only 25 grs. GOEX black. (If you're interested in how that happened ask) It resembles a Bean rifle somewhat ........ no buttplate, no nose cap, etc. If you'd like pictures, to get ideas, I could take and send you some. It won the South Carolina M/L Championship numerous times.
I've been shooting m/l shotguns and rifles for 34 years, and have never touched off a load of black powder substitute in my life. If it ain't true black, I ain't interested.
SRH
Stan: I picked up a handmade Pennsylvania Schimmel in .36 last August (at Dixon's Muzzleloading) that took my breath away. It handled like a fine birdgun and really had me salivating. It was, however, in a caliber too-small to legally hunt deer in that (and most) states, and it was a right-handed flintlock (I fight flinching with even a left-handed lock). The old boy who made it (he's 80!, bless him.) had even moved the rear buckhorns down the tube a bit further to allow for older shooters to still see the darn sights. I flat loved it. It was a work of art for almost no money and I was sorely-tempted to buy it anyway.
What exactly defines a "Po-boy" rifle? That may be exactly what I'm looking for. Also, will my english shotgun measurements mean anything at all when it comes to fit in a traditional flintlock rifle?
A Po' Boy is a rifle that was originally built in the Appalachians ........in several states, actually. But, it is very plain, as far as embellishments go. Embellishments meaning anything brass, carvings in the wood, German silver, or anything other than iron furniture. It will have no buttplate, no nose cap, and iron thimbles. The ramrod will have no ferrules of any kind, and the sights may vary somewhat. I made the sights on mine back when I was competing with it. They look traditional, but are a very narrow "square" notch in the rear sight, and a very narrow "post" front blade sight.
Po' Boys have a subtle beauty about them, being minimalist in decoration, but elegant in their lines and shape. I absolutely love mine. I hunted squirrels with it many times, taking head shots only with the 25 gr. load. The buck I killed with it was illegal actually, because .45 is the minimum legal caliber in GA, but I "succumbed to the moment" one Thanksgiving morning while squirrel hunting with my son and took a shot on a jumped buck, running, and broke his neck at about 80 yds.
SRH
Also, will my english shotgun measurements mean anything at all when it comes to fit in a traditional flintlock rifle?
Sorry, I overlooked the second question. Probably, no. A m/l longrifle butt is usually seated in the little "pocket" between the bicep muscle and the "shoulder muscle"(sorry, I'm not a doctor), on the arm and not in the shoulder pocket, where shotguns are usually mounted. They also have a lot of drop (DAH), and require an upright head stance to shoot the best.
SRH
Stan: Thank you for that. Now, how does one determine proper fit on a smokepole? I'd guess LOP still matters, as well as comb height, and perhaps even cast?
Stan;
Yes, I know that deer have been well killed with a 45 cal round ball but I still consider a 128 grain round ball on the Light side. The slow twist rate eliminates most anything other than the round ball in this rifle. A .54 cal round ball is around 230 grains, a lot of difference from 128 grains. My "personal limit" for a round ball on deer is about the 180 grain of a .50 caliber, but that's just me. I know they have been killed with .22 LR & I personally know of an 8 or 10 point buck which was killed with a shotgun loaded with a field load of # 7 1/2 shot, but I would like to think I would not have taken the shot, however tempting it may have been. I only have the word of a former co-worker that he did it. He had been hunting hard, though unsuccessful, for deer. The season had just closed & he went "Bird Hunting". His dog in circling a fence row jumped the big buck which came around the fence toward him. He stood still & the wind was apparently with him. As the deer closed in he threw up & shot it & killed it out right on the spot. He was spotted skinning it by an older gentleman who had an ongoing feud with his Grandfather who reported him & almost cost him both his car & his gun, but he managed to squeak out with just a fine & loss of the deer. Note I am not condemning any one for having made an illegal shot, have in the past made a few myself. First goose (A young Blue) I ever killed I had absolutely no license, either state or federal & not sure if season was open or not. He just happened to drop in on a little tobacco field all by his lonesome not far from my house which had been sewn in winter wheat. I picked up my little Richland 707 in 20 gauge with a 1 1/4 oz load of #4 & slipped up a fence row as close as I could get, around 35-40 yds, waited for him to raise his head & pot shot him, hitting the back trigger, full choke barrel. He just rolled over on the ground. I can assure anyone a young Blue properly cooked, which my Wife who had been raised on wild game & fish knew how to do, is delicious eating.
For a number of years the record, typical whitetail deer was killed with a .32WCF (.32-20) but I would not personally choose this caliber as a deer rifle either.
I guess what I am saying is in my developing years I read enough of The Old Man & the Boy by Robert Rurak that I adopted his philosophy of "Use Enough Gun". I simply do not like to feel I may be under gunned for the game I am hunting.
Treb: Many thanks for the above. An apt comparison.
I now have additional questions about what I saw and liked about that rifle last summer. Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading makes a Tennessee Rifle model that looks very close (at least to my eye) in it's lines and appointments (ie. similar drop and stock shape) to that really exceptional one I held and enjoyed at Dixon's. Evidently, it can even be built as a "Po-boy".
Where does one go to get more information about such rifles? The more I learn about them the less I seem to actually know.
Hi Lloyd,
Give them a call.
http://www.tennesseevalleymuzzleloading.com/Tell them you want this bad boy!!!
http://www.tennesseevalleymuzzleloading.com/tennessee-rifleor
http://www.tennesseevalleymuzzleloading.com/southern-rifleDelivered right to your door.
They're great people to deal with. And the girls that work there are as sweet as molasses.
That Tennessee Rifle looks more like mine than any of the others, except that they all have more furniture than mine. Mine has no buttplate at all.
Lloyd, the best way to determine fit is just by trying different rifles. One with a "hooked" buttplate will feel different from one without. IMO, rifle fit is much less important than shotgun fit, within reason. You have sights which align you properly, as long as you don't have to be a contortionist to line them up. Also, remember that the design of nearly all m/l long rifles requires them to be shot best offhand, or at least off a set of cross-sticks. I have a couple of "lightweight" benchrest m/l rifles (14 lbs.), but they require a pretty high sandbag setup to shoot right. They're fine with X-sticks.
Many of the TN Rifles had a flat bottomed hole in the right side of the stock back in the area where a patch box would be fitted. This hole was normally packed with patch lube, such as a mixture of Beeswax & Bear Grease.
Many experienced ML'ers say one should Never Ever put any petroleum product down the bore of a black powder gun. It will produce a gum which makes cleaning harder. Beeswax, animal fats etc can actually be used to Season a bore much like seasoning a cast iron skillet. Some fats such as hog lard will turn rancid fairly quick. Bear Grease was supposed to be good, never had any to try, also Mutton Tallow is supposed to be one of the best when mixed 50-50 with beeswax.
There are now several modern products available which apply this principal, Wonder Lube is one which comes to mind off hand, but there are some other brands available. You want to get the barrel as hot as you can with boiling water, let it quickly dry out & then swab on a good coat of the lube down the bore. Let set about a day, then repeat the process. After this it should clean easier & give it a coat of lube after cleaning each time.