I can't even back order RST 'Nice' shot shells now. What's going on or am I doing something wrong?

Anyone making equivalent loads, chamber pressure wise?

they have not been able to get Nice Shot for a couple years, (even getting small quantities of it for reloading takes luck and patience )

bismuth is now their non tox option

i am unaware of any other equally low pressure loads

Kent makes both a great bismuth and tungsten load- but they are not low pressure, I only use them in guns made for stiff loads -

Why do they even still list them then? What baffles me is, why not just buy a Tungsten they can get their hands on?

Isn't "Nice' shot their word for tungsten?

Kent doesn't seem to have a problem. I don't like how bismuth performs on geese. Ducks are fine but not geese.

Nice Shot was/is a specific product - made by a company in PA- it is a tungsten alloy and in fact in load recipes I have had actually tested - all other things equal, it seems to be very comparable to Kent's TM shot (which is also not available outside of Kent)

the issue, as i see it, is that no one is making a similar tungsten shot available in quantities that will allow a small scale commercial loader such as RST to offer a load. Kent I believe makes their own (as they do their improved Bismuth) and is not offering it to competitors

we are, sadly, not a big enough market for sales - think about it- take the number of vintage gun shooters and then subdivide that into the number of us that actually still use these old fowlers for ducks.

Kent's products are great performers if you have a gun to handle them. If you reload - bismuth is available and data is out there (I reload all my short ten non tox)

if you do not reload - i do not see an option outside of RST's bismuth loads- and if i didn't reload I would stock up just in case they cease to be offered


last point- I have no idea why RST keeps it on the site - it seems to me to be a poor choice since it annoys folks with false hope the product might somehow become available - which i don't see happening soon-- the last proper duck sized bulk Nice Shot I got from the maker was #4's about two years ago, only a few pounds and jealously hoarded for my short tens

The only size they offer in bismuth is #5, just not quite big enough for geese in my opinion.

Does RST list the chamber pressures for their bismuth shells?

Not sure if it is of consequence, but 'Nice' Shot is made in China and was imported by a company located in Kalifonistan. The only alternative I can think of is HeviShot Classic Doubles that is at least $3 per shot. It comes in #4 shot. If you want larger 16ga for wildfowl must buy Aguila #2 shot andi hunt them ducklings in Mexico as the shot is lead. The places where Ole' Gramps' gauge doesn't shine is in them duck or goose pit blinds.

Nice Shot is located in Albion PA. Dan's website says it made in the USA

OH - would you post your low pressure bismuth recipes?

Many thanks.

I bought a 12 gauge Model 12. I hardly use my 16 gauge double anymore maybe once a year.

I'm starting to run low on 12 gauge and getting a little desperate.

Here is the chamber pressures I have;

Kent's TM

2 3/4 length shells, 1 3/8 oz. 11,400 psi.
2 /34 length shells 1 1/4 oz. 9,900 psi

Kent's bismuth,

2 3/4 length shells 1 1/16 oz. 9,800 psi
2 3/4 length shells 1 1/4 oz. 10,000 psi

If you're using a Model 12, why concern yourself with low pressure loads? Kent TM would be fine for your gun.

#1 shot only but as cheap as you'll get it anymore Kent TM

Good point, what am I worrying about.

right - a model 12 will take anything except steel to my understanding

as i said- i have a few purpose built waterfowlers that have handled Kent TM with no issue

and LGF - the loads i use are all published loads - from the Lyman book, the Bismuth book from Ballistic products or the hodgdon website for 12 ga

for 10 ga i use loads developed and tested, among others - ones Sherman Bell published in DGJ - 10 ga loads have been collected on the Parker collector's pages in the reloading forum

RST 12ga Bismuth 2 1/2 1oz #5 was running 7100psi, according to Julie, when I inquired a few weeks ago. That still feels a little hot for my Damascus barrels. I bought a box or two just to have on hand. I'm scared to pattern one at $3 per trigger pull!

A guy I used to hunt ducks with insists on using a Mod 12 in 16 gauge. He used to shoot only bismuth, but switched to steel a few years ago. No problems. Key is to match the load to the choke.

I've been shooting steel at ducks, out of guns not recommended for it, for at least 20 years with no problems. But, I've never used one with more than .020" choke. The one I've been using the last 8-10 years is choked .018" and .018".

SRH

It's a 28 inch barrel with a modified choke. But I've always disliked steel and its performance. I don't think I would run steel even if I had a steel rated shotgun.

I was looking for a Model 21 or NID in 12 gauge but couldn't find either so I bought the Model 12. Good thing because I can still use my takedown case.

You're not alone in not liking steel shot. These mallards didn't either.



SRH

Its not the steel Stan, you're a lot better shot than I am.

I have heard, and read, that the early steel loads were pretty poor in performance. I can't really compare them to today's steel loads, as I didn't start using steel when the ban on lead for ducks happened. I intentionally shot ducks with illegal lead loads until I started hunting in Arkansas about 1996. I was hearing so many reports on crippling ducks with the early steel that I decided I was taking the moral high road even if I was a lawbreaker. I won't argue for criminality, I'm just being honest. But, when I went to Arkansas the first time I didn't want to subject my hosts to any embarrassment if I was charged by a warden, so I bought steel. I was shocked at the lethality it had. It was really good, and continues to be, IMO.

Would I like to pull down a few "tall ones" with my 32" SuperFox and some of these? Heck yeah. But, since we have to live with steel I just satisfy myself with it, and with keeping my shots inside it's range of capability. I'm not that good a shot, treblig .........I just pick 'em carefully.





SRH

That's your Super Fox, Sweet!!!!

Competition says otherwise. Every time I competed I got my doors blown off, I quit.

It's nice to see such nice jacket used for field sports much as it is done in Great Britain. In USA such jackets are often worn to Church as Sundays best. We also have many Fabrique en Chine Patagonia jacket wearers. My friend told me it's because the rich go to Southern Argentina to test their outdoor endurance and not to Northern Yukon or Northern Territories where they can be eaten by wolves, or trampled to death by angry moose.

A box of Winchester Expert steel #4s is less than $6 at Walmart. I would think that would be a big incentive for using it instead of Bismuth or $ungsten $matrix or $lassic $oubles HeviShot. The steel ammo at Walmart is only for 12ga or 20ga so those with 16ga shotguns are screwed out of the deal.

That's not a nice jacket. I bought an inexpensive "barn coat" that had been half priced a couple of times at a department store, melted three cans of Browning's wax treatment (can't remember the name of the stuff) in a pan on the stove, and treated the jacket myself, making it into a waxed cotton coat on the cheap.

I bought my wife a Barbour many years ago, but I wouldn't spend the money on one for myself.

SRH

No steel. Not for geese anyway.

Walmart sells federal steel for 16 gauge. It works and it’s reasonably priced. The Winchester X-pert steel is a junk load. Take the shell apart and look at how it’s built. Complete junk. The cheap Remington Sportsman load is FAR superior. It’s built like a target load, perfect round high quality shot, with sealed primer and sealed crimp. The federal load is well built too.

The Model 12 can handle steel all day long, with the right choke. The Model 12 is a brute with more than adequate strength. It can handle rifle type pressures, so can the 1897. I have no issues with modern steel shot, other than it’s all extremely speedy and hot. I use a heavy Remmy 3200 and it can even get unpleasant when shooting steel out of that tank. I much prefer the use of a gas gun when duck hunting/waterfowling, much more pleasant when the shooting is hot and heavy.