Hi folks. I'm a new member of the forum. Long time upland hunter. Have owned an early 1920's AH Fox Sterlingwerth for about 18 years. Recently purchased the "Julius Rosler" pictured below from Crosnoe Guns. I'll get right to my questions in case you want to answer without reading all of my drivel:

- I don't think this is of particular collector value, but thoughts on having the existing fixed F/F chokes opened?

- Thoughts on what constriction I should specify if I do have them opened? I forgot my #6's - but I patterned it with #8's (RST 1oz) and it was patterning an nice even 60ish% at 40 yards - so actually more like Modified. I hunt everything from grouse in WI, to released pheasant in IL, and an annual mixed bag pheasant/quail trip to KS.

- Who should I send the gun to for this work? I keep coming across Mike Orlen's name in forums - thoughts?

OK - so the gun: 16ga J. Rosler (Austrian, but the proofs are 1920's Belgium), 65mm chambers, 6.5lbs, with nice modern 2 1/2" DAH. Very tight. Refinished wood and barrels. Operates fine but the firing pins drag a bit on opening. Otherwise functions great and totally tight on face. The bores measure .671" or so, pretty close to the 17.0mm on the bbls so they have been honed but not too bad. I paid $1,300 so not terribly expensive, but perhaps a bit too much considering I thought it was Austrian, but is actually of Belgium origin.








Sorry for such a long post. Any answers or feedback is appreciated. Thanks very much.

Mike does good work.

My choice for all around use would be .005" and .015" in a 16.

I'd handload #5 nickel plate for pheasants, and use smaller chilled shot to open things up for the smaller birds.

Nice gun. Welcome to this gathering place

Hello Makintrax73,

Welcome to the site on your first posting
Nice gun

I usually suggest that you use the gun "AS IS" for one year and then if you want more open chokes then yes I would have it opened for your style of shooting.

Mike does good work.

Mike

Belgium builders build beautiful guns and some of the best game guns in the world. You did good in my opinion.

A recent thread & somewhat confirms Julius Rößler of Salzburg sourced Liege often:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=419837

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Austrian or Belgium, it looks like a nicely made gun with that cross bolt. I hope it gives years of enjoyment.
Skeettx has the right advice to use it as is for awhile. It's remarkable how a change in loads can affect the gun's patterns.
Karl

Welcome to the site. A very nice gun. Enjoy shooting it. I too suggest shooting it as is for a while and see how you like the gun and decide what chokes you will require. To do this you might think about using spreaders in the right tube. This will open up the right barrel about one choke constriction. I did this with a 12 ga. English gun choked Mod. and Full and liked the performance with a spreader in the right tube so much that I never had the choke opened up. RST carries a 16 ga. spreader in 7/8 oz.

First, welcome to the board!

Second; it appears to be a very well made gun from your pics. Always a nice touch to see those hollowed pin ends that were flared to keep them there. Engraving is also well executed, scrolls being the toughest to execute.

Third: I'd go along w/prior advise to shoot it 'as is' for a while first, but w/the proviso that you spend a little time on a grease plate to see how the loads you intend to shoot perform. I'm speaking to simply making a hard focus on the centre point of the plate and firing as you bring the gun into play. Its a good method to both see where it is shooting for you, but also lets you take a look at the pattern and is distribution. Do that for a box and you'll have a very good idea of whot you are dealing with. Just my two cents; opinions vary to its worth and that's perfectly fine w/me, but if you do that you will have a much better idea of not only how the gun is shooting for you, but also what you may reasonably expect from it performance wise w/a given load. If you reload, you have even more options at your disposal. Just saying.

Welcome, welcome to the premier double gun site. You have a nice box lock gun. From an old doublegun shooter/hunter ........ please, please do not open those chokes right now. I have been down that road, many years ago, and regret every choke I ever reamed. You can take metal out very easily, but you cannot put it back to it's original state.

As has been suggested by others, there are other means to open your patterns, those things of which I now avail myself when I want an open pattern for a particular pursuit, which is not that often. Nevertheless, the means are there. Please, wait and shoot your gun a year or two before reaming your chokes.

All my best, SRH

Just had a 16 ga W & S model 700 chokes opened right barrel to pattern 1 oz no. 8 at 20 yds and left barrel optimum at 35 yds (about modified)
Dean Harris owner of Skeets Gun Shop in Telequah, OK, did the job absolutely perfect. Made sure barrels had proper minimum wall thickness before beginning work. Truly a Master at his craft, very personable in discussing what you want done and fees very reasonable

X2....

Thanks for the advice guys. I will use it and try it with the current chokes. Just got a flat of RST shells, but perhaps another order with a couple boxes of spreaders will be the ticket.


I do reload, but not 16ga. My reading indicates that I can use low pressure 2 3/4" recipes in a 2 1/2" hull then use an overshot card and roll crimp? I can do that without a new press I believe? I got a spreadsheet from the Yahoo 16 ga group with plenty of loads. I have some Herco which appears to work.

You will be disappointed with spreader loads. They're fine for released quail and maybe woodcock, but in my experience with both RST and Polywad, the spreader loads fall apart at about 20 or 25 yards and are useless. Sometimes you just gotta open some choke...Geo
By the way welcome to our dysfunctional little family here!

Skeet's/Dean Harris is THE place for superb choke and barrel work.
JR

Neat gun. Gun collectors of some standard production guns (for example Model 21,.....) worry about originality. Opening choke constriction to more practical degree actually adds value to this gun.

I have a different perspective about spreaders. IMO, spreaders for hunting are for close range use only, 20 yards or less. I've never seen the patterns fall apart at those distances, and have used and patterned at least four different brands plus some I rolled myself. They have served me perfectly out to even 25 yards when shot out of a full choke. I qualified for the L C Smith team, in the Smith/Parker challenge a few years ago at Backwoods, shooting my 16 ga. w/ F and F chokes, and Polywad SpredRs on every bird, even the longish ones. My score was 22/25 as I recall.

The poster said his gun is shooting modified patterns now, with regular RST loads. A spreader in one barrel and a regular load throwing 60 % patterns in the other is a very useful gun. Everything is covered.

Just one man's perspective and experience.

SRH

Welcome to the board. I like your gun. However, I have a system of valuation based on past auction returns. Said system is based on Brand Value (BV), Original Quality grade (OQ), and Current Condition (CC).

BV4 = lesser known Continental makers
OQ6 = second grade BLE
CC5 = needs work or a properly done restoration

BV4-OQ6-CC5 = $668 for 12 bore. 16 bore has in recent history commanded about 1.25 - 1.5X premium. CC5 may be a tad low, too. Also, I think you bought from a "top-o-the-heap" retailer where you pay a little more for better service. Note that value is only a starting place in the determination of price (amount agreeable to a willing buyer and willing seller).

So, all in, yes, I think you paid top dollar for it, but got a nice gun. As you noted, top dollar at this level is still reasonable. If you like the gun, then you have nothing to worry about as far as value goes. You would be unlikely to get your money back if you sold it, but, then, that is not why you bought it, is it?

Hope you find the foregoing of some use and no offense intended.

DDA

If he's the guy who works on the Skeets bore and choke gauges, then he gets my recommendation for that as well. Mine had a minor issue (can't recall just what), and he turned it around so quickly and charged me so little that I sent him more than he billed me.

This has been my experience with spreaders as well. I use Polywad English 1 oz. of #6 in the right tube of my double and am quite pleased with the results over the last two seasons. For Sporting Clays I use RST 2 3/4" 1 1/8 oz. #7 1/2 in both barrels of the same gun (a 12 ga. 30" barrels choked Mod. and Full) with very pleasing results. I like the results of these two brands of spreaders and can recommend them with the fullest of confidence.

To be fair, spreaders have worked well for me with more tightly choked guns on close birds like quail. My luck using them a time or two on doves was dismal though.

Could be my shooting prowess of course. After all less then two weeks ago I shot the wrong deer...Geo

Cutting extra petals on the wad when reloading works for me.

I guess I'm in the don't ream unless you absolutely need to.

Beautiful gun by the way!

TM