Anyone had any dealings with these folks?

thanks
WtS

I have. Bought a Ithaca Grade 2, NID ejector 16 Gauge more then a few years ago. Upon receipt and within the 3 day inspection I found the forearm had been repaired. I contacted them and returned the gun. They reimbursed my shipping both ways and gave me a prompt return of my funds. I wasn't pleased about the repair not being noted in advance, but I was more then pleased how quickly they took care of the issue.

I've had several positive dealings with Champlin Arms, specifically with George Caswell. George is extremely knowledgeable re guns, and especially English guns. A pleasure to deal with George.

They have been good to me.

I've dealt with George Caswell and talked with him at gun shows. I wouldn't hesitate to deal with him again. He's an upfront guy.

I've bought and traded with George Caswell at Champlin Arms and can say he is a real gentleman, extremely knowledgeable, and a pleasure to deal with....a trip to Enid Oklahoma and a visit with George in his gun vault is worth any double gun fanatic's time. He has has possibly the largest selection of double rifles in America as well as other fine firearms and George's time is your time when you visit. I've been around gun shows and gun dealers for 40 years now and consider George Caswell the most reputable fine gun dealer to do business with; heads above some of the others who are little more than shysters.

George Caswell sold a gun on consignment for me. Got what I wanted out of it. Since then, I've bought guns from him a couple times and would do so again. About the only negative I'd toss out: If you're going to visit Enid--and he has lots of goodies to look at--and if you're interested in specific guns you spotted on his website, call ahead to make sure they haven't been sold. They don't update their list very regularly.

I have always heard good things about them

I have known George nearly 20 years. He is very knowledgeable as stated above. I have not personally purchased from him but a dear friend has done hundreds of thousands of dollars business with him and has been completely satisfied.

Very Positive!!!

many thanks to all of you

I appreciate your assistance and REALLY appreciate your endorsement of Mr. Caswell. I suspect that he and I may be doing some biz

WtS

My sole experience was so-so. A little bit like TUT's reply but ... worse. Maybe it was a bad day given everyone else's glowing experience. But i wanted the firearm. Many years ago called in to have an in-hand inspection of what i was interested in, but when received it wasn't quite as described for what would be an obvious issue (about something I specifically had asked about, which generally would require stabilizing, and was told was free of the problem). So i called back and atop from having been given the sort of "non-apology" for the mis-description, felt somewhat belittled by the follow-up commentary further describing the issue as something to be expected to be common in all such firearm types. Um, maybe-yes-no but each firearm is a unique distinct unit so that's why we ask the questions on condition. Plus I would've had to pay return shipping, no thank you. I wanted the odd caliber so i kept it. Every time since when I check out their offerings I just get reminded of "that feeling" that rose up in me from years ago. So just be sure they accurately inspect the gun if it isn't in-person.

Tough to please all the people all the time. I had a similar but worse and very bad experience with CSMC and voiced my displeasure here.....let me tell you, Galzan has lots of fans, I thought I was gonna get tarred and feathered here. Point is, most gun deal(er) will not always be 100% perfect.

This thread reminds me of why I'd never work retail.

As a general note to this method of buying guns over the phone - The inference some customers who complain can't be pleased is not accurate in this case. These transactions are literally very simple (see next paragraph). Nothing is hard about explaining condition issues when asked point-by-point. We're talking about in-hand on-the-phone discussions of the gun. Either it's described when asked about, or it isn't. The description doesn't require "100% perfect" - it requires acknowledgement that there is a condition asked about. It's there. Or it's not there. Guess it might have to do with how badly one wants to move a gun and ergo calls into question the regard given a particular customer. And if my guess is wrong and it's a mistake then you're right, one shouldn't work in retail (or one needs eye glasses).

I will add this point in the interest of supporting a theory, but of course I give benefit of the doubt as I always do, and it may pay to mind this for newer collectors: Of numerous gun purchases conducted over many years as above, all but four went as expected. I'm a collector & user of safari rifles, commercial Mausers, of living custom gun makers' rifles, and of British single shots and vintage SxS's. My point is that when new to a genre or particular field of arms, an experienced seller can always spot a beginner. It's simply the way it is. So for the four: 1. Above, 2. A board-esteemed CA seller duo (now defunct) badly misrepresented several important aspects of a set of matched consecutive Brit SxS's (guns in hand) that as an example to the Q. of "Do all triggers fire?" was answered "Yes," when they did not. 3. A Cabelas gunroom fellow when asked the Q. "Is there any wood issue or repair to the grip?" of a 458 Lott Prechtl Mauser replied (gun in hand) "No" but the repaired/inset wood the size of a small stamp was on top and noticeable, and 4. I paid good money for restoration of some classic American doubles where I'd directed the restorer the case coloring had to be done specifically through Turnbull (including in writing), was told it had been done so, it was invoiced as such by price, but after getting the gun I called Turnbull and they had no record of the serial no.s. I kindly contacted the restorer who admitted he sent it elsewhere.

C'mon now.

Call it anything you like, actions such as those are criminal fraud and thievery. Personally I would find it difficult to not pursue some damages and publicly report the circumstances - with names.

There is no excuse to tolerate behavior of that sort in any business.

JMO of course YMMV

rrrgcy, I think you may have misunderstood my comment.

It wasn't meant to be a put down of customers who expect to get what they paid for. It was more along the lines of even the best retailers have a bad day and make a mistake now and then. And when they do, they have to live with it forever. I spent over 30 years working with retailers. Mostly but not exclusively, owner operated specialty retail. The way most better gun stores are owner operated. Just sayin'....not for me.

Back some years ago, I bought a 16ga Greener DH-25 at the Owatonna Gun Library. Bill Taylor then running the operation. The next day, on the skeet range, the gun broke at the wrist. I think it was the 2nd shot from Station 1.

I wasn't worried about getting my money back, but I really liked the gun. I asked Bill if they'd restock it for me. They did, on their dime. And a decent job. I don't know whether that would happen today, but when we experience something like that, we need to give those dealers a public attaboy.

I have to wonder if that would have been the outcome if you had not been a "gun writer"?

SRH

A long time ago I bought an Ithaca grade 2NID with all the options from Bill Taylor at the Owatonna Gun Library at the time. It had an issue with the SST. Bill paid to have it fixed by Jim Kelly at Darlington Gun Works in South Carolina. A most pleasant gun transition ever. Major plus for Bill wherever he his.

Thanks for posting that, Walter. It is so rare to hear of retailers going the extra mile.

My apology for that comment, Larry. It was unwarranted.

SRH

Stan,
It is a fair question. Likely a moot point from today, as well, as I doubt that would be in the cards.
Even for Larry.

Cback is right, retail must be a never ending hell.

I had a good experience with George, but, it was a dealer to dealer thing, and a bit different.

I'd recommend him.


Best,
Ted

Bought a Browning Continenntal 2 Barrel set, 20 Ga barrels and 30-06 barrels. adveryised as 99% original condition. I emailed and expressly asked about any cracks, chips or splits. The response were none. "Gun is almost new with a few very light handling marks, no cracks or any issues" was the reply.
I bought the gun, paid 60.00 shipping and when I opened the box; which showed no damage or evidence of rough handling, the wrist was cracked.
I called the dealer and he said to send it back.
I paid return shipping and INS on 6K.
I had 120.00 in both ways shipping. I got a check for the cost of the gun. I called and asked why I didn't get my shipping refunded since none of this was my fault. His reply was "check our policy, it says no refunds on shipping. I said "you shipped me a gun that was not as described". he said "see the shipping policy. I ate $120.00 on a gun that was defective and was not described as so even after I specifically asked.
he is from North Carolina and deals in a lot of Brownings.
Not the way I ever did business with my customers

Quick story not specifically related to this dealer. A few months ago I purchased a Sterlingworth 20 gauge off Gunbroker as a "Buy it now" situation. Gun had nice pics of the the sides of the frame but lousy pictures of the entire gun. Nice case color, unturned scrrews as they say. Got the gun and pulled it out of the shipping container and there essentially was no barrel blueing. Barrels had been polished (badly) and there were still pits to be seen. I never accepted the gun. My dealer reboxed it up and I sent an email to the seller and also left a phone message. Crickets for 3 days and then an email received saying send it back for a refund. No refund until the gun was received and they verified there wasn't any damage to the gun. I explained I had never taken delivery, so how could I have damaged it. They said they wanted to see how it was packed. My reply was I used their packing because I'd never taken delivery. Just put the bubblepack back around the barrels (I never even looked at the receiver) and put it back in the box.

Before we had shipped it back, they had relisted the same gun on Gunbroker with the same write up ("Very fine, all original conditon") and it was sold again as "Buy it now" by someone else. So the gun had been resold while it was still sitting in my dealers safe, waiting to be shipped back.

Bottom line was we shipped it back and about 10 days later I got my refund. Never knew whether the new buyer had the same issue with the gun that I did or not. BTW, this Dealer had a A+ rating on Gunbroker with over 500 positive transactions. Thank goodness I had asked about a 3 day inspection in advance of receiving the gun and was given I thumbs up. PS I paid shipping both ways.

Cabela's is nice in sense they can sent gun you're interested in to local Gun Library for $25 avoiding painful & expensive return process even if what you receive isn't as it was advertised. I will never understand why most expect more form gun dealers than from used car dealers?

Cabelas gun room - on the c.2001 458 Lott m98 I bought with the obvious misrepresentation, they also said send it back but thankfully asked let us know what their "error" was worth to me. I told them I wanted the rifle, but the difference to me if I'd known of the issue made the rifle maybe $200 less valuable, they received approval for the refund and paid it. That was nice. The duo dealers in CA who terribly lied to me about the pair of consecutive matched British sxs's didn't acknowledge the problems with the pair when caught and only said send it back at my cost (to be $100, btw on me). I said I'll keep them, but what about the maker-signed oil bottle pictured in the ad but it wasn't included in the shipment??. We dickered and they finally sent me a $100 refund for the bottle. Classless.

To add to a side theory, the side by sides had a different/unique cast, likely tough to sell. I figure crap dealers will go to any length to sell-off an odd gun just to rid themselves, hoping for the best it won't come back. No class.

Cars seldom explode in your hands?

I would not expect any more from a gun dealer than I would from a numismatic dealer, musical instrument dealer, or art dealer, or whatever.
Simple honesty.

I know George very well, and have hunted a good deal with him.....He'll be down here for the Dove opener....

You will be satisfied , or you will get your money back.....

I sent along a PM in reference to this topic....
Good luck in your quest....

Retail certainly can be hell. I've seen it both ways. Another plug for Cabelas, at least for the one in Lonetree, Colorado. They handled my trigger problem on that new Dickinson perfectly (zero cost or trouble to me). Toby Spanial was the man on that one.

I have had nothing but positive experiences dealing with George/Champlin.

I would not hesitate to buy from George/Champlin again.

No problem, Stan. That's a question a lot of people would ask. And after they restocked the gun for me, I did comment on it on various BB's. Including this one, I'm sure. But I don't think I ever mentioned it in anything I wrote for publication. But Walt's post makes me think that wasn't so unusual back then. I did a lot of business with Bill and got to know him pretty well. He's one of the good guys in the business. But, as Ted states later, I don't think Cabela's would do that today. Although I have had a couple positive experiences with them: Got my money back on one gun they could not fix properly, and got reimbursed retroactively for their 5% military discount, a couple months after I'd made the purchase. And in that case, I went through the customer service people, who had no idea who I was. Although I do have one of their black credit cards, and that might have helped.

Back in the Bill Taylor days Cabelas policy was return for a refund, send to us to fix or have it fixed and send us the bill. If you sell enough old guns stuff happens but when thous are your options it's hard to be mad. I remembered that when I started my business.

Mark, If that's your policy, you will ALWAYS have business. I once bought a "NIB" Browning superlite 20 b off the internet. Seller said new in box....it wasn't, so I sent it back. He said "you fired it " because there were rings on breech face. I did NOT fire that gun and the rings are why I sent the gun back! He ended up sending it back to me and I ended up eating that deal because how could I prove it? . Now, how many shells do you have to shoot to make those rings on the breech face?? A BUNCH!! But, that's the Internet gun deals! I threatened litigation but he was in Massachusetts and I was in Indiana.....so litigation was a no go (cost prohibitive and seller knew that) and so I was stuck with the gun. Oh well.....nice gun anyway, but 98% and not NIB.

The double gun world is a small one and I figure it is easier to keep a customer than to find a new one!

At that time, I believe Cabela's had a no questions asked return for a refund policy on just about everything. I remember talking to Tom Bryant about that. A fair amount of abuse. Guys heading out West hunting would stock up on camping gear etc, then return it on the way home. Back then, they'd also ship a gun from one store to another, so you could look at it, for free. That was also a good deal, although I don't really mind paying $25 if there's something I really want to look at.