Wonder how much traction the Feinstein, Pelosi, Brady, Schumer and Bloomberg gruppen will get from the fact that the deranged Illinois man legally bought and passed the NICS in Illinois (a not favorable State for gun-owners I believe) for both the rifle and the handgun he carried Wed. 14th AM when he ambushed the in-armed Republican members of the House and Senate at the baseball park in VA--Thank God there were armed and trained members of the DC Congressional security detail present, and they were able to snuff out this deranged "person" before further carnage could develop.

Every day, it seems the evening and morning network news brings another story of violence.. And banning handguns or any guns from law-abiding citizens is NOT the answer. How do we screen out the "Charlie Manson" types from passing the NICS background check, I wonder. Anyone have a solid idea on this?

Note that except for the fact that the "whip" is a position that has a security detail, the baseball field would have been a "Gun Free Zone". These shooters seem to always choose areas where they think no one can stop them. These officials should be able to "carry" if they want to. BTW, the UPS facility that also got "shot up" yesterday was another "Gun Free Zone". These zones and "Zero Tolerance Policies" are just foolish.
Mike

No way to know, but if his wife knew he loaded a van with guns and ammo and headed to Washington, DC, and was gone a month without good reason, she had a pretty good idea what he was up to and should have notified SOMEBODY in LE. She should face some charge if she knew the situation and said nothing. Just saying...
JR

I think one sure way to prevent a lot of mentally disturbed people from buying guns would be to electronically link voting machines to the NICS (National Instant Check System).

Any prospective gun purchaser who voted for an extreme anti-gunner like Obama or Hillary Clinton would obviously be admitting to be profoundly insane and mentally ill. You cannot claim to be pro-gun or pro-2nd Amendment if you vote for politicians who wish to infringe upon the gun ownership rights of law abiding citizens. That would be like an abortion doctor claiming to be pro-life.

EDIT: For some reason... as soon as I heard that the shooter was not a Muslim terrorist, but was a whacked-out Liberal Democrat who had been making online rants against Trump... I thought of rocky mtn bill.

RWTF, nothing can change your prevalence of multiple killings, many unreported every day in a culture that generally worships guns. The US makes its rules and lives by its consequences, as do other countries.

You've often disclosed the wretched experience of Prohibition and its consequences. Same thing. For guns, democratic citizens make rules to accommodate a balance of freedom and public safety.

They change what they don't like over time, often depending on where they live, gun-free zones as a part of it. You know all this, Fox. There are lots of "solid" ideas of how to make it safer but nothing is safe or certain.

Incidents like this one will likely invoke some response since the holy politicians were involved. More laws are always the most attractive approach and no one ever suggests that simply enforcing ALL of the existing statutes would be a viable alternative. Always easier to yap and posture than to allocate funds for programs already mandated but lacking those pesky $.
Not that it would have done anything in this instance anyway but that is as well an aspect that will be ignored.

King, do you have even a shred of evidence to back up your wild claim that there are many unreported killings every day here in the U.S.?

C'mon King, put up or shut up. I'm sick of you constantly denigrating our country and attempting to undermine our gun rights with your falsehoods.

We don't "worship guns". But those of us with any brains at all do indeed value our freedoms and our Constitutional Rights. We don't swallow the kind of crap you frequently post here:

Always interesting to get the Marxist point of view from King.

The loon progressive got his foot in the door, but after a minimal screening process, he should have been flagged and booted off the high profile campaign. The only thing that's being unreported is the careless latitude a major party leader is given for his security policy.

Read the transcripts. When sanders distanced himself, he blamed the loon progressive, not the inanimate object. Give him a day or two, and he, along with the usual suspects, will start blaming the gun and R's again. Shows what he really thinks about joe average, eh.

Socialist Sanders is from a pro-gun state. He knows how the bread is buttered.

Madison wrote the bill of rights drawn largely from a document addressing the rights of a citizen in Virginia. So his ideas were not those of a single man but of a general opinion of the citizens at large. Madison looked at the roots of the Revolutionary War. First act of the British to silence dissidents and to punish the Americans was to send troops to occupy Boston because pamphlets were being printed there that challenged the British King and Parliament. It was abundantly clear that without a free press to speak the voice of the people, freedom could not flourish thus the 1st Amendment. Then the British troops in Boston marched to Concord to confiscate a believed cash of arms. There the troops killed some citizens and the shooting started. It was abundantly clear that an unarmed citizenry could be quickly subjugated if they had no means of protecting themselves. This was 2nd Amendment.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

You have your history lesson correct. But it is "cache" of arms, not "cash" of arms.. James Julia, and RIA with their "cash intensive" gun auction pricing hadn't yet appeared- $253 Large for a 1930 era Parker 20 bore grade A-l special-- et al.

OK, enough of the auction based world - except that the antis view the Parker 20 in the same light as they do the "evil black rifles"- ergo- "guns kill people, guns are bad, ban them and the evil acts will stop.

I mention that 20 Parker, after reading the article in recent edition of SS magazine, because when Madison declared for the individual right of the free citizenry to bear arms, such a fine example of a shotgun designed to kill game birds awing was not conceived yet in Colonial America--

I also am betting that the "deep pocketed" Parker collector who purchased it will not be dragging it through the New England grouse and woodcock coverts this coming October- possibly his well-worn 20 VHE (a la Burton Spiller )and that he is not of the mindset that would cause him to cut down the barrels of that 20 A-1 Special and use it rob at gunpoint a neighborhood 7-11.

Just as the First Amendment grants us Freedom of Speech; does not grant a misfit license to yell: "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater, to incite a pandemonium event for his own sick enjoyment, so does the Second Amendment, perhaps tacitly under the "Well Regulated Militia" phrasing, allude to today's CPL for handguns, and the NICS for purchased from licensed gun dealers.

We all have heard it said that the Founding Fathers didn't visualize guns like the: M-1 Garand, Winchester Model 12, Browning A-5, AK-47's, German MP-38 and MG-42 full auto weapons, and the list goes on. To that I reply-- neither did they visualize: Airplanes, submarines, automobiles with automatic transmissions and air conditioning, suburbs, Wal-Marts!!

To wrap it up--we need a better way to screen out the psychos that can somehow circumvent the existing gun laws, and in that effort, not penalize the law-abiding citizenry- both the gent that took that Parker 20 home, and the plumber in Peoria who wants to carry a pistol for his personal protection, as well as for his home and family.

I will promise all Canadians, King included, that there are no "unreported" shootings or killings in our fair country. We report all shootings and killings just like they do north of the border. He doesn't like our country for our freedom and lack of crazy attitudes about personal rights, but I am willing to live south of the border and let him live north.

I played a mean first base once I reached maturity and signed up for the Fort Lee Virginia team in 1969. I was less than competent when I was a young fellow. However, I have always loved the game and still do.

Just by showing up in DC with the guns in his van, was the progressive loon not already guilty of a series of felonies?

If I had been unemployed for as long as this bozo had been, my wife would help me load the van, and not care in the least where I went, what I took, or if I came back.


Best,
Ted

Maybe, the best reply is to tell the progressive loons that if they want to fundamentally change the country, then they should put together enough support to amend the Constitution. If it's up to visualizing, they are gonna see things any way they feel like.

Apparently he legally obtained a CPL in his hometown in Illinois- But it goes without saying the DC police would not recognize it as being valid in the "Disney on the Potomac" environs-- Living is a van for a month in that highly populated area--no restroom except at a tavern he apparently frequented-- No hygiene there--

As do it. I played second base in both Jr. HS and HS-- spent two weeks one summer in the 1950's as a guest of some family friends who lived in Framingham, MA- they had a summer cottage in Situate (sic) on the ocean, and their next-door summer neighbor was Dom DiMaggio- "Joltin' Joe's brother who played the Red Sox- my host family's son-my age, Bobby McPhearson and I played catch with Dom on his off-days-great guy. Bobby's dad was the editor of the Framingham Gazette, if memory serves, and talked a lot about Hemingway and his first start as a reporter-

Good enough to suit up, not quite good enough to get scouted for the "Bigs"-- but the love of the game, like my deep interest in Hemingway, as lasted all my life. Best example of baseball and the statistics that make up its raison d'entre-- Casey "Stinky" Stengel-- his words: "Well, you can always look it up somewhere in the book"!!

back in the mid thirties, we had a problem with criminal misuse of certain classes of firearms...the solution to the problem then was the federal firearms act of 1934...criminals no longer misuse those firearms, due to lack of availability...is it now time in restrict certain high capacity semi auto firearms, by amending the existing legislation that has worked for so long?

Ed, are you living under a rock?!!!

Stop watching the news and the problem will go away.

Hey, doc. It hurts when I do this.

Well then, don't do it.

(stop trying, ed)


______________________________
If you don't like my Nudie Suit... I'm sorry about that. HW Jr.
https://youtu.be/yzRhrBCHiBU

jager: what is the problem, as you see it?

People shooting people instead of their T.V.?


__________________________
(stop trying, ed)

roads: to quote the great usurper...

"to sin by silence makes cowards of men"

a. lincoln

I would not know where to start. At this point I exist in my own little world. I'm happy and I want to keep it that way.

and here is some good news...

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/ted-nugent-prom...-205716922.html

lets hope others will follow ted's courageous example...

Gun free zones are enter at your own risk areas or as my wife calls them a scuicide zones. Had the minority whip not been at that practice there would have been no security there. The body count would have been far worse. If one out of fifty people was a CCL 90^% of these shootings would end quickly with no need for a trial.

Zed's dead, ed.


____________________________
I don't take no stock in dead people. Huck Finn

Ed, do you recall the D.C. Beltway Sniper shootings in 2002. Two black men, Lee Boyd Malvo and John Allen Muhammad killed 10 people and wounded 3. They also shot 17 other people elsewhere. They killed and wounded all of these people by firing single shots at their victims while hidden in the trunk of a car.

Furthermore, full automatic weapons certainly are available, and have been since the NFA of 1934 as long as you pass a background check and pay the transfer tax. There is no reason to believe this Liberal Left wacko couldn't have passed the background check to buy and legally own a full auto sub-machine gun. Being a Liberal Left Democrat, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that he had a secondary motive of inciting a renewed push for legislation to ban semi-automatic firearms.

When Republicans don't like something, they simply do not partake. Democrats whine and cry and insist that everyone has to stop doing the things they dislike.

You continue to be an anti-gun Troll who insanely pushes for us to incrementally give up our rights. The anti-gunners want them all, and idiots like you are part of the problem... not the solution. People like Madonna, and Kathy Giffords should have been arrested for inciting violence against elected officials. If someone had enacted the severing of Barack Obama's head, Libtards like you, rocky mtn bill, and King would have lost your minds, calling for the arrest and conviction of the person who did it. Here's a link to a story about a current play depicting the assassination of Trump... more proof that Liberalism is a mental illness:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-...-julius-caesar/

ky: sounds like you are saying that because the bad guys are most likely armed, then the good guys need to be armed as well?
otherwise, they run the risk of being helpless victims...

Ed, are you hoping that KY Jon will agree with you so that you can then suggest that good guys wouldn't need to be armed if we banned guns for everybody?

Well, take another look at this... I've posted it for you several times in the past, but you choose to ignore it... the worst mass murder in U.S. history until a bunch of Muslim Terrorists used box cutters to kill thousands of people on 9-11.

www.nydailynews.com/news/back-fatal-happy-land-fire-25-years-gallery-1.2161895

87 people were killed by a dollars worth of gasoline Ed. Do you want to ban gasoline too? Or are you just doing more of your ignorant Trolling?

Now that is hilarious!!!!!

Keith, I don't recall advocating violence against our President or members of his party.If I had done so, I'm sure you would remind me. He's a crook. We have a system of justice to deal with him. It will do so. As for the violent Bernie fan, he got what he had coming-- just not quite soon enough.

You got that wrong pal, your candidate was the crook and the thief and the stinking liar.

The stories now about President Trump are nothing more than fairytales from fantasyland. I stopped believing in fairytales after I left kindergarten.

Aren't you supposed to blame the gun? Do you have any guidelines to help decide when it's okay to blame the loony wacko nut job democrat? Never mind, it's a trick question because I'm a misogynist, or was it racist, or, what are the other ones?

Good one, Craig. For a 100% score, work the notions of 'empowerment" and "community organization" into the perp, I mean, liberal, taking the big dirt nap.

Best,
Ted

Craig, As usual, your reply is incoherent and irrational. Do even you know what you meant?

I knew EXACTLY what he meant.


Best,
Ted

Bill,

If you disagree with someone's post, I suggest you attempt an intellectual refutation or rebuttal, not simply denial, dismissal, and demonization. You should explain why you disagree, in a factual, intellectually objective way. It's the difference between someone with the ability to think critically, instead of one parroting indoctrinated, sociopathic, statist religious dogma.

Regards
Ken

Eightbore, I'm one Canadian confident that there are few to none "unreported" shootings in the US, as King suggests. Additionally there are many Canadians who envy the rights and freedoms guaranteed by your Constitution and Bill of Rights....rights sorely lacking in Canada.

Bill, glad to see you are keeping your sense of humour!

Ken,I'll ignore the last phrase of your post above and say you're right. Craig, we've had our disagreements over time, but I have no wish to make it personal. I apologize for my snarky comments. I'm reminded how many good friends I have who don't share my views on every topic. There's enough friction in our public discourse without my adding to it here.

I can somewhat understand that some people don't like Trump. However, I fail to understand how they can respect a piece of trash like Hillary as a valid replacement.

Amen!!

Bill and Bill: Failure to understand the egregious public discourse, to the point of dread, mirth and a welcome distraction from our daily grind depending on where we live, is mostly from disbelief that it's actually happening, imposed on the world one way or another.

There's no escape, not even when your admired checks and balances adjudicates your leadership, a country at war with itself will still be there. If I were king, as a liberal I'd put anyone in stocks who stirred the pot in a partisan way while the Constitution is doing its job.

Ed unarmed people, who are being attacked by armed people, are helpless victims. The fact that Liberals think that gun free zones will keep people safe is a gross lie. If you look at some of the highest number of shooting victims events they all are in gun free zones. Malls, work places, night clubs, churches, movie theaters. All have been sites of mass shootings. One thing they have in common is signs which proudly proclaim to the world this is a gun free zone. If you want a gun free zone you must protect the people within. They don't. They put up a sign which to me is a beacon light telling bad guys this is a very low risk zone for you, shoot away.

Here's a little hint for you Ed. I'm rarely gun free. Perhaps, if I have to use my gun in a gun free zone I'll have to deal with some minor legal issues afterwards but I'll be there instead of dead, wounded or worse dealing with the loss of a love one. But if I do use, l bet all those there will be willing to come to my defense. People need to look out for others, not trust in the gooodness of bad people to suddenly do the right thing.

ky: i get it...thing is, and the point of my question is to seek an answer to foxie's question:

" How do we screen out the "Charlie Manson" types from passing the NICS background check, I wonder. Anyone have a solid idea on this? "

perhaps, restricting certain classes of firearms and making them more difficult to obtain and keep is an option to consider?

Jon, I have no quarrel with what you say. You live there and I don't. You know your environment and all I know is that it is violent compared to many other countries. Sovereign countries choose how they want to live.

Canada, with a federal gun law, has fewer killings because of the kind of people we are, the laws we make for public safety. Most Canadians disagree strongly with common carry. They consider it unnecessary.

Your reasonable response to Ed was to raise the thought in me: Is there evidence that carrying overall is a deterrent to killing, indiscriminate or otherwise. Does carry strengthen public safety?

It may there. We don't think so here. Hence carry licenses rare.

king: are there any restrictions on semi auto hi cap firearms in canada? came up with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Canada

seems reasonable to me...maybe there is something we could learn here?

Ed, what about those background checks? How good are they? Ours involve checking with divorced partners for character references. I personally think that's a stretch but probably necessary particularly if applying for carry. But even that wouldn't account for road rage, normal but incipient killer for some simple misdemeanour like flipping a finger. We have those, too.

king: i do not know the answer to your question re the value of our nics system...perhaps it could be improved by including input from local police sources as a final check, just prior to transfer of a firearm...

as for canada's gun laws, l like the concept of classifying firearms as non-restricted, restricted and prohibited...

i also like the concept of a federal restricted firearms owners license, which would require periodic renewal...

perhaps we should consider a similar federal system here?

James, google description multiple, mass killing in US, the number officially recorded. They've become so common daily many don't make the news. That's "unreported" to me.

I doubt there's an American or Canadian who doesn't admire the good intentions of the Founding Fathers. Living by them is so contentious that a Supreme Court appointment can change governance for decades.

I'd feel short-changed by a system that chooses a president with three million less votes than an opponent and plunges the country into a dissolving phantasmagoria of constitutional rights within six months.

I would've much rather made a snarky comment about King's if I were king response, but I don't take it personally. Maybe, we both know that getting a little snarky is more effective than facts and figures. There's no apology needed in my direction, if that was your intention. I come from the point of view that differences of opinion are not really my business, but agendas intended to force change shouldn't be accepted because of an out of sight out of mind position, apathy.

Criminal, misogynist, racist, orange haired and on and on, but none of it is policy. Fine, convict him and throw him in jail. Now say he's in the slammer, it still doesn't acknowledge that his policy on firearms is much more palatable to someone likely to visit here than policy intended to progress in the opposite direction.

Okay, I can't help it.

Mass is normally reserved for Sundays. As a newsman yourself, you know that 'unreported' is so because it doesn't line your pocket with money or it doesn't fit your personal opinion of what is worthy. There's your lack of checks and balances.

Back to your 'if I were king' proclamation. Seems if you would crush freedom of speech when Constitutional business was being done, one should be aware of what your 'feelings' are about the intention of the Constitution.

The US problem is poor border control and a system which rewards becoming a drain on the system. King can we send you 14 million illegal invaders? Can we send you about the same number of city born and raised self proclaiming victims of the system? If you got rid of those two groups our gun violence would be reduced by 90%. People focus on mass shootings, which are not to be taken lightly, but they might be a fraction of 1% of all shootings. Just they are the ones being over reported.

Truth is most gun violence does not happen to 99.999% of the population. Most gun violence is business or personal. Business as in drug related against competition, against people trying to take over another's selling area, against people who owe money and won't pay or people who want easy money by doing a quick job to get the money or drugs. Some is personal to pay back for some previous injustice. Some is just plain murder.

Fact is if you stay out of most cities worst areas this gun crime will never find you. If you are out of there by sunset you are fine. But if you go there after midnight and hang out with them you will get caught up in some bad things. Stupid is as stupid does.

I am not Wyatt Eurp or some fast draw trick shooter but if you give me two seconds I can put two shots center mass in anything under 25 yards. And few
of these shooters will stand up to that type return fire. Heck most don't want to play that game at all. And if I don't get two seconds I'll go down but my wife will still be there and while she is slower shooting I'd not risk it if I were the bad guys. A pissed off women with a gun is like a poked bear.

The United States is in about the midpoint of gun related deaths compared to population,in the world. The bulk of the killings in the US are done by non whites. Europeans who love to point out the evils of our gun ownership laws are silent when it is pointed out that their wars of the 20th century killed millions. Had these predatory countries that caused these wars had had and armed population with a desire to be free, perhaps history would have been written differently. I take little interest in the opinions of mass murderers.

As far as opinions expressed by Canadians. The US fought for its independence and won it from Britain, the most powerful nation in the world at that time. Canada got their independence given to them by Britain who was that time bankrupt from fighting European wars. I take little interest in the opinions of light weights

Thanks. I think that's a good summation of your situation, and would fit pretty well here except we don't have as many illegals and a stronger but far from satisfactory immigrant acceptance system.

I don't know about carry providing greater public safety despite our prowess. I asked a Mountie the other day, pointing at his handgun, if he could hit anyone with it. His smile said no but his words were "I qualify yearly."

As for the rest of us, even with a clear shot in a perhaps crowded space, I question the consequences of any Tom, Dick or Harry firing away, particularly at nutcase with a rifle. One killed three Mounties here two years ago.

Which takes us back to people choosing how they want to live. I have no issue with it.

pooch, Canadians contributed to world peace when the US came very late to two wars against fascism. The US contributed mightily with the USSR in the satisfactory outcome. The US, the only superpower, is declining in influence. China is in ascendancy because it quietly goes about its business diplomatically and without hubris, making global friends to advance its interests. The US is withdrawing from commitments to its security and trade relationships so quickly allies are questioning its trustworthiness and making other arrangements. The US is my favourite other country and it hurts to see what's going on. I imagine you're hurting, too.

! WHEW ! What a refreshing blast something like THAT would be ! ! A couple of names spring instantly to mind but since they are already on ignore I wouldn't notice, but a great idea nonetheless

Wyatt Earp-- although I suppose ol' Wyatt "urped" his lunch a few times in his storied career as a lawman. You are right about a pissed off armed female being as dangerous as a bear poked in the cojones-- Hell hath no fury--etc.

OK Bill, tell us what evidence you have that Trump is a crook. His real crime to you is that he isn't an anti-gun Liberal Left Socialist like the politicians you typically support. How cool to see you accusing Trump of criminal activity when you totally ignored the international gun-running Federal Felony called "Operation Fast and Furious". I notice that you also had no problem with Hillary's many crimes either, including destroying evidence that was demanded by Congressional subpoena. Do you think that Bill Clinton't secret meeting with ex-AG Loretta Lynch while Hillary was under FBI investigation was obstruction of justice? Of course you don't.

Your frequent baseless rants against Trump are what led me to think of you when I heard that the Congressional Baseball shooter Hutchison was a Liberal Left Democrat who had been engaged in online rants against Republicans. You've shown me many times that facts mean nothing to you, and that you will post false information to advance your Liberal Left agenda.

By the way, I see you finally got one of the grandkids to show you how to activate the spell-check on your computer. That still doesn't help the students you led astray in your English classes. I hope Trump cuts your teachers pension.

Are you sure, Doctor? Ken's "parroting indoctrinated, sociopathic, statist religious dogma" has a sort of euphonic sound to it. But does it serve as an explanation to Bill in "a factually, intellectually objective way"? Raised on own petard?

Aw, JM, another bad shift?

Speaking of Parrots.....King weighs in on cue.. Thanks King.

Nice to see you engaging again. No doubt I'll be able to channel my inner "Buck Turgidson"...

Hey King, I thought you said you had no interest in political posts or threads here on this Double Gun forum... but here you are again you old anti-2nd Amendment fraud.

You still haven't offered any proof of your recent lie within this thread where you made the wild-assed claim that there are many unreported murders here in the U.S. Your explanation to James was weaker than weak. It doesn't happen and you know it. The only unreported murders here are those that haven't been discovered yet. We are not so inured to violence that our media ignores murder. Why can't you just try telling the truth for once???

For someone who claims to love this country so much, you sure spend a lot of time denigrating and demonizing it.

Perhaps you'd like to explain this falsehood??? And does any of us think that you'd have a problem with the Electoral College system of ensuring that smaller more rural states have some say in governance if the anti-gun Democrat had won because of it?



Oh, by the way, we've heard that tired old story about you asking the Mountie if he could hit anything with his handgun several times now. For some reason, I just don't believe you asked a Mountie about the again just the other day. When you tell lies all the time, it does get hard to remember them all, doesn't it?

Funny thing is that when someone starts shooting people tend to clear out as fast as possible. You can see it on the videos. Shooter starts out with five people within ten feet and after the first shot the smart one try to run away or go to the ground. That leaves the shooter all alone and they start moving towards large concentration of victims, firing as they go. I won't take a shot unless I think it's clear or I am returning fire. I suspect almost every shooter would find it much harder to shoot well if he was getting return fire. If nothing else it will force him to find some cover or slow down his rate of fire as he tries to figure out where my fire is coming from. That time could let others get away.

I did stop a robbery at a convince store many years ago. For that I used a 12 ga shotgun. Super weapon to convince a perp to lay down his gun, lay down on the ground and make snow angels lest he get shot. At 15-20' that 12 looked like a tank gun. City of Baltimore plea bargained that down to misdemeanor. Time served for the perp. And they wonder why crime happens.

It is extremely rarely about needle threading shooting prowess between rows of helpless progressive bowling pins. Studies are available, only for the objective news types, that show the known presence, not discharge, of guns, deter crimes against those who possess them. If it's a dead horse that can stand more beating, maybe the feel good policy of gun free zones can live in the hearts of progressives, but the signs could be taken down?

Bull $%^& King. Accept the facts, Canada is a light weight. I've worked with the Royal Mounted, who I found to be much too enamored with themselves and not all that good and with the blue helmeted military who crack me up. As far a being early into WWII Canadians were doing the bidding of the English and were often misused and screwed over. I like Canada, but I tire of some Canadians telling us how to run our country. Canadians overrate themselves and the French Canadians, I've learned to ignore completely.

Keith, you left the apostrophe out of teacher's. Otherwise, as Wonko says, have another day. As for the students I led astray, I've always prayed you wouldn't find them. I should have known you'd track them down and throw them in my face. Let us all bow down before your superior wisdom. BTW, don't take my word for it that Trump is a crook. Just wait and see what develops. I know the alternative facts sources say the Russian meddling is just liberal bias speaking through the mainstream media despite every intelligence agency saying otherwise. You'll be amazed to know I have the deepest contempt for Bill Clinton and hold him responsible for his wife's defeat. I also have no particular respect for her but still think she'd have been a vast improvement over your candidate. PS: Months ago I commented on the conservative circus in Kansas. Perhaps you'd like to revisit that disaster and point out how retarded my assessment was.

"Studies are available, only for the objective news types, that show the known presence, not discharge, of guns, deter crimes against those who possess them. If it's a dead horse that can stand more beating, maybe the feel good policy of gun free zones can live in the hearts of progressives, but the signs could be taken down? "

The ONLY way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

Pooch, much to my dismay, many Canadians like to strut around like a poppinjay, imagining we are somehow important on the world stage. We contributed significantly during the two WW, not so much in the 70 years since.

We have had decades and decades of liberal governments who have seduced many of us with free money and services paid for by an ever decreasing number of earners, while shirking our international responsibilities by under funding our military. A few of them post on this site. They often embarrass me with their pretense of importance.

Our RCMP have become an unaccountable disgrace with the upper ranks dedicated to the anti gun agenda so common up here.

I'm not all that happy about things up here but at least there is no snow right now. Always look on the bright side of life! (apologies to Monty Python).

I think it's more the horse long gone over the hill than beating him, craig. Laws have no meaning if they're not faithful expressions of the people who made them. All the laws in the world can't stop violence (or spitting in public places) if they're acceptable within community values. The US violence seems within accepted parameters of safety and personal freedom, depending on where Americans live. Are the New York City signs still forbidding "expectorating" on public transit?

Can, with a post like that how can anyone dislike the Canucks? King's going to speak his mind and dxxn the consequences. Often I think he gets it wrong. Nice to hear another take on things...Geo

I don't know much of the mounties even though I visit Saskatchewan annually. I did think the one I encountered on the way to the lodge after a long flight was obsequiously polite to the point of snarkiness. On the other hand I was drinking a beer in the back seat of the van at the time we were pulled over.

Meddling? That must be in our election process.

Who ran it and was responsible for the integrity of our last election? Who, very searchably, said back in Sept. of '16 that he told putin to knock it off, with regards to upcoming US elections two months BEFORE hand.

Our current President has already told us that his team was aware of hacking efforts on their own, and heeded advise from intel agencies to be wary. hill ignored them.

Why isn't your guy, the last prez., held accountable for the meddling into an election under his watch? Is it because you like him better, or do you think it was his policy that allowed the meddling that you liked? Not being snarky, just trying to figure out how one might get away with saying, I don't like bill the pervert, but all of his-n-mz bill's policy is just roses?

King, we do not think US violence is within acceptable parameters. We do disagree with the idea that disarmament of the people in violation of the rights under our 2nd amendment is an appropriate solution...Geo

I like Canada and I like Canadians, but damn why don't you be your own country and not another English suburb. The Canadians adopted the English Parliamentary system and never put in any safeguards to protect the rights of the rural citizen. So your polices are dominated by the whims of urban Quebec and Ontario Provinces with no way to undo their control.

If what you say is accurate, our provincial government couldn't have abdicated its responsibilities at the request of a rural provincial landowners organization of which I'm president, acclaimed the most radical institutional change on the continent.I We're the fastest growing FSC group in Canada, third and fourth in growth and size in North America, winner of the distinguished global prize in 2014 for sustainable forestry by the Rainforest Alliance. We make the rules, pooch. The people who own the land make the rules, kowtow to no one.

I agree with you, Geo. A free and democratic society makes the rules. Disarmament couldn't work. I believe that violence is unacceptable at any time, with the caveat of not believing in peace at any price. There's a time to take up arms.

Craig, bearing Ken61'S admonitions in mind, I'll just ask you in an emotionally neutral way, what makes you think I'm OK with all the Clintons' policies? I've never said so here. You have no other knowledge of my beliefs and political positions. What I'll never understand about you and Keith is that you presume to know everything about me without ever having had any contact beyond this forum. The assumption that I have every feature of your version of a cartoon liberal is insulting and dishonest. You can't possibly know these things. Why you pretend to is an ongoing annoyance. I would never presume you're OK with all Trump's actions. I can't say policies because he hasn't got any actual policies.

James, "not so much in . .70 years"? How about Canada's influence as a middle power since 1945. You forgot NATO and Suez Crisis when the big powers dithered. For a country a tenth of our southern neighbour's population Canada pulled its weight. Germany today declares us as its closest and most dependable friend.

From NOAC, “to promote peace, prosperity and security through knowledge and understanding of the importance of NATO”:

“In 1956, Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser took steps to nationalize the Suez Canal in order to reap the economic benefits. The canal, co-controlled by Britain and France, was an important military and economic. Assisted by France and Israel, the British invaded Egypt and re-seized control of the canal. Following the invasion, which could have led to outright war between the parties involved, the Canadian Secretary of External Affairs, L.B. Pearson stepped in and advocated for a UN contingent of troops to impede open warfare. Thanks to Pearson’s efforts, a UN peacekeeping force called the United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) was established. As a result of Canada’s important contribution to the creation of UNEF, peacekeeping and the pursuit of peace became a kind of self-sustaining theme and objective of Canadian foreign relations for several decades. Canada’s role in peacekeeping was perceived very differently to its role in western organizations. Misconceptions about Canada’s role in the Suez crisis led to the belief that it intervened to uphold international law, when, in fact, its goal was to prevent outright confrontation between NATO and Commonwealth member states, which could have resulted in the demise of these organizations.

"Canada had a vested foreign policy interest in resolving the Suez Crisis. Pearson believed that Anglo-American relations, the UN, a functioning Commonwealth and NATO were the pillars for peace, freedom and change within the world. The future of these organizations was placed in jeopardy as a result of the Suez Crisis. The U.S., fearing that Egypt would align itself with the Soviet Union, went as far as threatening to dump both the British and French currencies, paving the way for a financial crisis in both states. Such an event would have led to a major rift among member states or the demise of NATO and the Commonwealth. Consequently, Canada, in a bid to protect its national interests, sought to ensure that the allies avoided a confrontation and maintained good relations. As an Indian diplomat remarked: “Canada’s attitude on Suez was the only thing that saved the Commonwealth from dissolution.”

And, from Wikipedia, here’s Canada and NATO, James:

"Canada has been a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) since its inception in 1949.[1] Canada was not only a member but one of the principal initiators (founding countries) of the alliance.[2] This Atlanticist outlook was a marked break with Canada's pre-war isolationism, and was the first peacetime alliance Canada had ever joined. However, Canadian officials such as Hume Wrong and Lester B. Pearson and including Prime Minister Louis St. Laurent worked in favour of the alliance not only because they sought to contain the Soviet Union, as did other members, but because they hoped the treaty would help to eliminate any potential rivalries between the United States, the United Kingdom, and other European great powers (principally at the time France, but later including West Germany), where Canada would be forced to choose sides.[2] This had long been the overriding goal of Canadian foreign policy. The main Canadian contribution to the North Atlantic Treaty was Article 2 which committed members to maintain a "free" political system and to promote economic cooperation, in addition to the more usual diplomatic and military matters.[2] However trans-Atlantic unity in political and economic matters has not come to fruition, as European states have looked toward the European Union and its antecedents while North America has the North American Free Trade Agreement.”

Despising the Liberal Party as you do, and deserving as they are at times, no reason for not giving credit to leadership and country where it's due.

rocky mtn bill, I have no idea what "conservative circus in Kansas" you are referring to. But knowing you, it was just another Liberal Left attack on the politicians who actually respect and defend the 2nd-Amendment... much like those made by you and the Liberal Left wacko who used a gun to attack Republican Congressmen. Did I mention that he made me think of you Bill?

That was the original topic here, but King Brown is doing his typical thread diversions in yet another attempt to move the discussion away from the mental sickness called Liberalism.

But going back to try to find what in hell you were referring to, I did come upon our little exchange in the "Per Obama: A Failed Presidency" thread from 12/2016. You can go here and follow our little exchange where you engaged in your usual dishonesty about the Republicans, beginning with your post # 465322, and ending with my final response in post #465419. And then you put your tail between your legs and ran off as you have done so often. I could re-post all of it here for you if you'd like everyone to see what a dishonest Liberal Left turd you are.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=465322&page=12

Like craigd, I don't know you beyond this forum, nor would I care to. But your own words betray you Billy. Are we supposed to just forget the things you say that show us what a devout and blind Liberal Socialist sock puppet you are? I know it isn't considered civil or mannerly to have a good memory and dredge up these things you said in the past, but I'm learning to live with myself.

By the way, you never answered craig's question about your boy Obama meddling in another country's election. That would be the Israeli election Billy. You might also want to tell us what you thought of Obama telling the Russian ambassador, and caught on a live microphone, that he'd have "more flexibility" to deal with Putin after the elections. That sounds a lot shakier than anything Trump or his associates have done. Then there's that little deal that Hillary cut to give Russia control of 20% of our uranium.



https://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2015/04/23/...ranium-company/

How about getting back on topic King. The discussion is about the mentally ill violent tendencies of wacko Liberals who wish to use extreme violence and political assassination to suppress our system of governance.

Crikey. This really blew up.

Canada... just another English suburb. Good one. Not as good as A gas station masquerading as a country, but good.


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Europe must take control of its own fate. Angela Merkel.
LOL LOL LOL

Ah, John, I'd rather have fun with your assumed anonymity.

King I am reminded of a old saying I once heard by one rather old school relative I had. "A friend will help you move but a True Friend will help you move a body. No question asked, except did you bring the shovel?" Germany might consider your nation as a friend but trust me if and when it comes time to lift or move a body they won't be calling you.

Germany right now is a mess and will become worse over the next 20 years. All their new refuges will either learn to be German or the Germans will be forced to deal with it. Trust me, Germany is not going to become a Muslim state any time soon. If you have people move in and they become part of your culture, part of your national family if you will call them that, it's called a migration of new blood. If they refuse to become part of your national family it's an invasion. Few end well.

A blessing of your country was its sheltering of the weak and dispossessed on your shores. Canada's is a multicultural experiment. I think Arabic is our provincial capital's second language, Canada will be mostly people of colour in 25 years. We're trying to accommodate all as part of a national family, as you say, but it's hoping---the expectation of something better.

Who ya gonna call, King? Who ya gonna call Europe? LOL LOL LOL


__________________________
There are two types of Europeans. Smart ones and those that stayed. H. L. Menken

When I was young 50-60 years ago, there was a lot of talk about "he's a typical Englishman." Only we learned he wasn't. He was often a remittance man, an obnoxious snot sent overseas by family to get him out of the way. The English aren't that way at all. English suburb, I wish. Great people. I feel the same of our Quebecois, different, progressive and proudly French. I live in an Acadian parish, the first English and Protestant family to settle here in 200 years.

Bill, true, I don't know you beyond the forums, but I think it's safe to say that patterns develop. You have obviously categorized me. Maybe, you can see two things that I have the preference to do.

I like to stay on policy, but I've conceded that is not always possible. Just a bit ago, I made a comment about liking and not liking shouldn't cloud policy distinctions. Apparently, you think policy doesn't matter, now it's a respect issue? I don't respect the gal at all, who's concept of respect is more important, yours or mine?

The other thing that I have a preference to do is snip out thoughts, not to misquote, but to lessen the fog and key in on points. To me, points mean policy issues that folks have an agenda to use to make progressive changes to the country. I also think quoting lessens presumptions. I make the commitment, best I can, not to attempt to know you, but to respond to quotes. I think you know that I visit near your neck of the woods now and then, maybe some day I'll bump into you at one of the local shows. I'll make an effort to say hi, but it'll still be me on the inside.

Why don't you start a new thread about your beloved Canadian Muslims King, instead of once again steering wildly off-topic?

Aren't you concerned that old colonel will start a thread calling you out for your frequent thread diversions?

Well, I guess if I was you, I wouldn't worry too much about that. If hypocrisy and dishonesty could be used as currency, we'd be seeing a few people here buying everything Holland, Purdey, and Boss could produce... with a heavy back-log.

As long as you're going off-topic, why don't you show us again how an atheist such as yourself invokes the name of Jesus to advance your anti-2nd Amendment agenda... as you did here:

"English suburb, I wish."

I knew Nova Scotia wasn't everything you crack it up to be.


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Run, Hide, Tell. Sounds about right.

guess no one else cares to address foxie's question...

Goofin' on King and Europe is much more fun.


___________________________
(stop trying, ed)

I love them both! Hahaha!

King you got to be making this stuff up as you go. If true you FSC boys need to get out more and listen to your propaganda less. Everybody in Canada dances to the tunes played in Toronto and Montreal. The politicians are buying the votes from the loafers of the cities with the taxes of those Canadians living outside of Quebec and Ontario. That's sex without kisses.

Ay, oh, Canadians

If you happen to see a half soused half dago half mick American gourging on donuts with a really pretty Polish girl at the Tim's in Windsor and feel like punching him, remember, it's pooch slagging your country, not me.


____________________________
Will you still love me tomorrow?
https://youtu.be/VJeK7bHmDcg

You know when I read this I get an image in my mind of that commercial where an egg is frying and the announcer says:

"this is your brain on drugs."

I am not in this argument, but I am thankful for the Canadian soldiers that fought "shoulder to shoulder" with ours in the recent troubles since 9-11. Also we have our constitution and they have theirs. They should live by theirs and not complain that we live by ours.
Mike

Craig,If you're in the neighborhood, do let me know. We'll have a cold beer and talk about the things that unite us. Best wishes.

Funny how an American from Texas is capable of schooling King on how King's country actually works. Well done sir.

Home never is all we thought it was, lonesome. We leave home for opportunities, knowing we'll come back but when we do it's not the same, as Tom Wolfe told us in You Can't Go Home Again. We've changed as everything else has changed. But it's still a hunting and fishing paradise. Although Nova Scotia is the earliest settled of Canada I caught brook trout Monday in a Cape Breton Highlands pond where no one ever wet a line. Stuff dreams are made of.

James, please tell him where the money is really coming from under our federal equalization arrangement, and it's not from the eastern part of Canada, former powerhouses of Ontario and Quebec often living from charity of the West, as are all four Atlantic provinces.

James, here's your province of Ontario as in and out of being a have-not province, including an explanation of our equalization system that provides a national standard of services across the country, or close to it. From the Conference Board of Canada national forecast, in part, last May.

"Ontario is set to once again become a “have” province. However, because of expected growth in the federal equalization envelope, along with the use of lagged data in the formula, it is unlikely that Ontario will be cut off immediately.

"Over the next three fiscal years the Ontario government will lose all of its equalization payments. The reason for the expected drop-off has less to do with booming growth in Ontario, and more to do with the poor economic performance in Alberta, Newfoundland and Labrador, and Saskatchewan—three of Canada’s four have provinces (the fourth is British Columbia).

"Equalization was created to address fiscal disparities among the provinces. The calculations for equalization payments are based on the average fiscal capacity of a province (its ability to generate revenues) and where that province lies relative to the average of all provinces. If a province finds itself below the average, it is deemed a “have not.”

"These provinces then receive transfers from the federal government to bring their per capita fiscal capacity in line with the average across Canada. Over the last decade, resource-rich provinces such as Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Newfoundland and Labrador have driven up the average fiscal capacity, pushing Ontario below the threshold for the first time in 2009–10.

"Based on our forecasts of provincial and national economic growth, Ontario will return to have status starting in 2018–19 when its fiscal capacity rises above the average. Based on the current equalization formula, Ontario would then lose all of its equalization payments.

"Despite being technically a have province after 2017–18, we expect Ontario will continue to receive a portion of these extra funds, preventing a complete loss of all equalization payments in 2018–19. Still, we expect that Ontario will lose about $800 million in 2018–19 and the remaining $1 billion in 2019–20."

Newfoundland and Labrador, of course, has been in an out from with its fortunes from oil. And remember those PIP grants? Canada paid the full cost of every dry well by the Seven Sisters until they struck it big with Hibernia. My brother was marine engineer on the rig.

King I doubt many state here would miss $800 million as much as you might in Canada. Heck most states waste that on feel good programs alone to keep the large population centers happy. Read that as graft and give away to our Democrats most needy programs.

It's time Canada started being a Nation. If it is as I understand it, their system is dreadful. Heavily slanted toward urban Provenances and, In my opinion out of date and not representing the people

The Parliament (like our Congress) is voted on by the people. The Provinces with the greatest population will have the greatest number of parliamentarians. The Parliament nominates the Prime Minister to head of government who is like our President but is not elected by the people but by the majority party of Parliament. The Prime Minister advises the Canadian Sovereign (which happens to be Queen Elizabeth of England). There is an upper house which is similar to our Senate. Instead of being elected by the people to represent their Province they selected by the Prime Minister to serve a life term in office or until they are 75. The number of Senators each province allowed is not a fixed number like our system (2 per state)but is allotted to each Province according to its population.

In Canada if a Party from an urban area gets into power. They will control not only the Parliament but the Prime Minister (the executive branch) and the upper house (Senate). The advantage is to the urban areas with the greater population who tend to be more liberal and wanting more freebees.

The self sufficient Canadian land owner we grew up loving is a vanishing breed and is increasingly becoming disenfranchised.

I'm not much into politics,I avoid the conversation if at all possible - the frustration of it all is too damn aggravating ...I do obviously read the political rants here and other places ... I find it interesting reading the views of others ...but King my friend, one thing I did notice in your post was the statement of Nova Scotia being the earliest(European ) settled province ...I've always been led to believe that title went to Newfoundland -I mean the boys with the horns on their head were in L'anse Meadows quite a while ago ...and i'm pretty sure the sign heading into St .Johns reads welcome to " " the oldest city in North america ...its been recorded as settled since 1519.

All that being said ,I get exactly where you're coming from,I'm trout fishing most every evening, all wild-no stocked fish ,it is definitely something I dream about

The Democratic Party in the United States is nothing less than a legalized Terrorist/Communist Organization that's embedded itself in our political system.

Why is this "Stop Trump" movement not being looked at as a terrorist organization.....any group trying to undermine our government is a terrorist organization.

King, I'm not sure how an explanation of Ontario's have or have-not status under our byzantine and idiotic equalization program is germane to anything in this thread. So I won't be going there today.

I did, however read an interesting column in the NYT yesterday pointing out that if Democrats blamed the Arizona shooting on the Tea Party 6 years ago, then the Republicans were certainly justified in blaming the over the top anti Trump Democrats and popular media for this shooting. But, being the NYT, that wasn't really the point.

The point the The Times was trying to make was that it was wrong then and it's wrong now to link those events to one political movement or another.

How disingenuous of them! Live off the one for 6 years, as they admitted to doing in the column but now that the shoe is on the other foot, well, we all better just shut up and leave it to the mental health experts.

Just one of the problems in that line of reasoning is that while the guy six years ago had a full history of mental problems, our anti Republican guy currently has no history of mental health issues.

Chris, you're absolutely correct. I forgot the Norsemen who ranged from your Northern Peninsula and made homes to, it's said, poking around Liverpool, Nova Scotia, and Massachusetts. Europeans who stayed or settled came hundreds of years later. I don't know how we ever got started on Columbus "sailing the ocean blue in 1492."

It pleases that you corrected me on this because careless history should have no place in public discourse. What makes it worse, as you know well, Newfoundlanders are my favoured Canadians and their home my favourite province. The Chancellor of McGill, Cyril James, told me years ago Newfoundlanders were the smartest Canadians.

'The Parliament nominates the Prime Minister to head of government who is like our President but is not elected by the people but by the majority party of Parliament."

Not even close pooch. May want to do some research.

Chris, perhaps you are a direct descendant of Leif??

I'm glad you made that point Chris. It should be common knowledge among all North Americans by now that the first confirmed evidence of the discovery of North America by Europeans comes from the writings of the Icelandic Sagas and is unarguably confirmed by the archeological sites in Newfoundland, in accordance with the Sagas, both in terms of location and time frame.

Ahead of Columbus by 500 years.

Actually Dal, it's kind of close.

It's not even close cb. But whatever.

Our political parties' members elect their leaders. The parties nominate candidates for election of Members of Parliament. The leader of the party who has the most seats in Parliament typically is named Prime Minister.

Like I said, Dal, Pooch was pretty close.

Or is there some other system I am unaware of?

It's okay that you're not up to correcting a Texan you say is schooling me on where the money comes from to pay for Canada's amenities. It is germane because you endorsed pooch's silly notions. You know better.

As for Tea Party, NYT and shootings, they have a gnat's eyelash of influence on America's current tragic travails, and I won't be going there today. Less said about their crazy aberration the better.

IF the leader of the party is NOT elected BY THE PEOPLE of his or her riding.....he or she will never become prime minister

The 'people' will always have a say in who runs the country.

So PARLIAMENT does not NOMINATE the prime minister.

But I guess in your mind cb.....'close' is just as good as fact.

In a Parliamentary System the Prime Minster is selected by the members of Parliament and not by a vote of the electorate. If I'm not even close. Show me where it is different my info comes from WIKI, I looked it up because I was not sure I had it right.

OK tell us how the members of your Senate are selected. The people you refer to are those who reside in either Quebec or Ontario.

'It's time Canada started being a Nation. If it is as I understand it, their system is dreadful.'

What you state may be 'a' system....but not ours.

What cb said -

"Our political parties' members elect their leaders. The parties nominate candidates for election of Members of Parliament. The leader of the party who has the most seats in Parliament typically is named Prime Minister."

This is very close, except, the leader of the winning party must still be elected by the people of his or her riding....That is why parties pick leaders that can actually win in their riding.

Agreed....The Senate system must be changed.

To me the resource distribution is simple. Mineral wealth of the inland Provenances is being used to buy votes in the Sea Land provinces.

In my life time, my view of a Canadian that once was of a hearty individual who fearlessly faced the wilderness. My experience over the years in Canada changed that view to a couple of snow flakes so indoctrinated in Union rules they would not reach up and open a valve, an arrogant Mountie who with the blessing on some one higher up who was regularly violating US aviation rules and civil servants with menially jobs making things as difficult as they could. I could go on but you Canadians have a terribly flawed political system that is going to bring your country to its knees.

Our system is dreadful because people often behave dreadfully. But in our system when the people realize they have been dreadful and foolish they can change things.

Changed drastically, but it's not going to happen the party in power is not going to give up the lock on ruling the Government they now enjoy.

I'd like to see Italy invade Canada. That'd be some funny shyte.


___________________________
Canadian politics is even more dumber than American.

It would be a good place to eat and an outstanding place to watch girls.

At least you would be safer doing it

pooch, I've never heard anyone say their political system is perfect. Nor a citizen of a country in political chaos predict that a neighbouring country would suffer similarly. Canada's first-quarter economic growth led the G7. Canada is discussing electoral reform seriously.

I learned from years of working in Texas that things there aren't all bigger and better, as they say. Your complaint against a political system, unions, overbearing cops and civil servants is common everywhere, piddling compared to the pain Americans and the world is bearing from Washington.

By any measure, Canada has peace, order and better governance. Chauvinistic and somewhat rude to say, pooch, but sometimes these things need saying. Everyone has a responsibility to make the world safer from fools. Not that you're a fool but you're saying foolish things. Regards, King

How's that reorganizing going, King? Brussels and Ottawa got it figured out yet?


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https://youtu.be/cUKJWsnAAXs

There is also a theory, based on one of the Sagas, that the Norse also had a settlement farther south, possibly in what is now the US. It appears the main reason they had settlements over here was to take advantage of the cod fishery on the Grand Banks. A fishery that has been destroyed by the Zebra Mussel infestation of the Great Lakes. The sad thing is that the water fertility problem could be solved by iron seeding, but the UN has come out against it because it's contrary to their Global Warming Dogma.

Regards
Ken

Italy invaded Canada decades ago, after the last war, and enriched our country significantly in every field of activity, not least providing good parliamentarians and hockey players. Give people a chance, be fair and tell the truth, and they do wonderfully.

As for your fun-shot, Italian pilots fought bravely against ours in the Second, considering equipment and general lack of leadership. It all comes down to leadership. Our bravest in the Middle East would have had the jihadists on the run long ago if they knew exactly who and what they were sacrificing their lives for.

Canada is fortunate "training" the hard-fighting Kurds---they're actually in their front lines---but the Kurds are fighting to make a country for themselves, killing jihadists just a part of it. Personal and geopolitical mess, and seems a lot to ask our soldiers to give their lives for. I become more pacifist by the day.

Yup. Just what I thought. The reorganization isn't going so well. It's actually pretty simple. Dummy like me figured it out in a minute. The world just better get used to hamburgers, chop suey, and vodka. And I'm not too sure about the vodka.

P.S. Sunny Boy going to step up and fund Paris?


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Facinating watching the OODA play out on a global scale.

King you ignoramous, the system is perfect in the US and always has been. If there's one thing that you can take away from all the free flow of sharing and caring, is that it's the dems that're imperfect. Redistribute that!

Dal, you are playing word games.

King, I bring up the NYT column because that is what this thread is supposed to be about. Not the Canadian political system and equalization.

You are being feed a load of baloney. Your system heavily favors the urban provinces and is not representative. Your method of selecting Senators is proably the worst of any country claiming to be a democracy. If we in the US had your political system we would be ruled by Californians and likely would soon be speaking Chinese.

King you make noises like a guy making things up as you go along. Exactly what part of Texas did you visit? Perhaps you could tell us about it.

I have been to Canada a lot.

You're forgetting like me with the Vikings, craig. I won't say Americans had a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea but it's closest analogy I can think of at the moment. You never heard an endorsement of the woman from me. Quite the opposite. The Democrats could have introduced a decent healthcare system but didn't want to because of insurance and medical lobbying. As a liberal, I say what about the people? (Yeah, we're off-thread again but I pay for my sins and enjoy participating sincerely on anything in this wonderful forum. )

Looked up Canadian military actions in the Mid East. Sounds like a bunch of Blue Helmet stuff. Canadian military is 20th in the world. Can't afford a bigger military because of all the money spent for humanitarian stuff (like keeping the current pols in power)

This reminds me of the big good looking soldierly fellow who was in the Canadian Army and regaled us and the girls with his stories of daring do. Until we discovered all he had ever done was Blue Helmet stuff and never fired a gun in anger.

Most members suffered a national magazine profile of my career posted here by another member. Part of covering the world for Canada's public broadcasting television system---Safer and Jennings were colleagues--- involved political reporting all over the country, including Texas, the civil rights program from the boycotts to MLK receiving the Prize in Oslo, and the space program from Mercury to Apollo 17, mostly at MSC south of Houston and the Cape and Huntsville.

Seeming to have an aviation background, you'd know Canadians had significant roles in engineering the command module and lunar lander. I was enjoying dinner with the command chief at home when he got the phone call Grissom, Chaffee and White had just burned to death on the gantry. I got to know Texas and Texans well, Dallas and many points in between, as reporters have the pleasure and access few others have in their work.

Is that enough? Still made up?

Not on topic, but my local news the last week has been about two serious convicts (armed robbery) being transported, and who overpowered their two guards, murdered them and escaped. Cops have been unsuccessful in recapture.

Today's news is that they've both been captured by a homeowner with an AR-15. The civilian home owner and his neighbor held the fugitives at gun point until the police could get there and take the escapees into custody. Never underestimate the deplorables!

You won't see it in the NYT or WP so I thought I'd post it here...Geo

Yes I was an aviator and was offered a job to work on the lunar lander. Also worked in Experimental Flight Test at Bell to develop the Cobra. Did some development work off and on over the years. I don't recall any Canadians, significant roles or otherwise. I would think I would have remembered any Canadians because they have great beer in Canada and they often bring it along. I like it better then the Aussie beer and the aussies are fanatical about their beer.

When did Italy invade Canada?

Yes, Canada dumps on its military peacetime, spending on higher standards of health and education, and is measured for military prowess by what it does after its call to arms. The US is the only superpower and hasn't won a war since when? The Phillipines? Panama and Grenada don't count. Military power has its limitations. As for "blue helmut" stuff, you missed Bosnia et al and who chose the toughest sector and consequences in Afghanistan.

King you heathen. Of course, you would associate the fine red states of America with the devil, and yes hill's deep blue sea is soiled with discarded solar panels and hybrid car batteries, among other skeletons bobbing on the surface, stricken from public checks-n-balances.

You have endorsed the concept of the 'ist'. It really isn't a long l'ist', but it is not flattering. The gal has been coated with an earth friendly no stick 'ist' resistant coating from the lack-o-checks-n-balance corporation, foundation?

Please don't you disparage our ocare! That's right about the time that we, the wild west murder capital of the world, became healthier, happier and more productive.

Don't worry about the people. As a liberal, it is your day job to convince them that they are miserable. By any yardstick, you're succeeding. If you teach a man to work, he is of limited use. If you teach a man to whine from his favorite stool at starbuk's, you got your redistribution in the bag.

No, no, craig. The other way. The woman to me at the time was the devil and the man the deep blue sea, god knows what the US and the world would get from him. Now we know.

A a liberal, again, my job is to diminish these notions of entitlement, to become sovereign, masters of our destiny, no public teats, no punk games. It's declared policy of the rural organization to which I belong.

It works wonderfully. Education unites people in pursuit of worthwhile goals. Bafflegab, indecision, hot and cold, destroys the spirit every time. Initiative must come bottom-up without bureaucratic or technocratic interference.

It's my day job.

Yep, Canada who has a terrible political system and a joke military is safe to denigrate the US who protects you from an invasion by the Italians.

I anxiously await your next space shot.

I looked up bafflegab and it said see craigd.


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This thread is starting to give me the fantods.

I am impressed! I don't know how you finished the part I clear cut off, but it had to have gotten harder and harder to reach the keyboard as your pinocchio nose pushed you away from your computer. Just kidding, I wanted to work forestry back into the conversation. If you sneeze, do leaves fall off the end?

This way off the subject, but yes I was a Test Pilot for a number of years. Test Pilots, at least at the level I worked, are grossly over rated as for most part is the work. I often felt like the guy that was told he was going to be in a parade only to discover his place was cleaning up behind the elephants.

Hey Lonesome, did you happen to watch the hockey game, you know, the last hockey game? Darndest thing I ever seen because they brought out this big silver trophy, the biggest I've ever seen, and handed it to a player so he could skate around with it do you happen to know that player's name?

It escapes me right now!!!!

Wouldn't have missed it for the world. Would have loved to see P.K. bring it back to that city in Kwee-bec. I like the Pens and Pittsburgh, can't stand that nut spearin' Nova Scotian. Last team to win back to back '97 '98 Wings.


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Beauty & Violence

And who was that right winger who did it for the Red Wings those years, keeping his elbows and stick swinging to keep the riffraff from taking off his head? Only another greatest hockey player of his time, eh?

Not much left of Pittsburgh or Allegheny County, and more people leaving everyday.

I got no dog in this fight, but will put in one comment concerning the Canucks. They ain't exactly leading the free world in the fight for freedom, but Rob Furlong ain't no "blue helmet" neither. (It also would not be entirely fair, however, were I not to point out that he was using an American made rifle and ammunition to do the deed. )

SRH

Thanks Stan for that observation. Our men and women in uniform do the best they can despite the handcuffs their government puts on them.

LR, PK and the rest of the Preds along with their awesome fans got Nashville onto my radar. Gotta like any team where the captain's wife looks and sings like that!

I forgot about Furlong, he's the real deal. Him and his people did some good work.

From WIKI:
After leaving the Canadian Army, Furlong moved to Edmonton, Alberta and joined the Edmonton Police Service in 2004. In 2012, Furlong was dismissed from the police for discreditable conduct, after an episode in which he physically abused and urinated on a fellow police officer. As of 2013, he operates a marksmanship academy, called Rob Furlong's Marksmanship Academy, based in Alberta.

He's my kind of guy and would have made a hell of a Marine. I thought he used a Barrett but he was using a gun I don't even know. A pal was a Marine sniper using a Barrett in Iraq, his best shot was a 2800 yd one, but you don't put guys that shoot dumpsters in the record book. Sniper school sounds to be a major [censored], sounds tougher then what I went through and I thought they ran us a lot. I still have a good feeling about the Corps, or the Corpse, as our previous fearless leader once called them. Talked 4 young guys at work into joining the Marines. They where back after boot came by to say hi and two or three of them were going into disciplines I didn't know existed. In my day having good legs and being a decent shot was all that was needed. Now they need a good brain. Your brain is your best weapon. Good to see disciplines where they are required to use it.

You big dummy canvasback, that was Faith Hill who sung the national anthem not Carrie Underwood.

Gordie was doing it for my team, King. Makes all the difference.


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https://youtu.be/kSwU1wsbkhQ

Lol I wasn't refering to any specific game. I was refering to Carrie's general abilities.

Carrie is a fine woman...she would be more than welcome to boil me kettle and wash me dishes:) ...You fellas can bark all you want about who was here first there's more than enough evidence on the Northern Peninsula to appease my mind ( the reported the six foot rusty haired natives is fun to hear about too ).

But the point of this thread is not the posturing about whose govt is best ..because they're both struggling these past few years... Trump is a proper tool ,but a hardass willing to draw a line in the sand ...that pansy my country elected is too friggin dainty to even pick up the stick .

I just hope our collective govts (mine mostly) get our world back on track sooner than later ...I believe in damn hard lines when it comes to right and wrong

Still think this guy was the absolute best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkvrc9y9MRo

Stan, I wish I could be definitive on the assertion of "American made rifle and ammunition to do the deed." I corresponded with a member here who was involved in the training of our Special Forces snipers---in Montana, I think--- and debriefed US and Canadian snipers in Afghanistan.

At the time, maybe six or more years ago, he said Washington had declined requests to buy the scopes and mounts the Canadians were using. Following up, I learned a friend had been quietly supplying the mounts and scopes which were made right here in Nova Scotia under government contract.

The last time I inquired, because of something that turned up on our forum, I learned that he now is making custom military rifles, lock, stock and barrel. Perhaps members may remember the name of our no-nonsense sniper expert who also wrote a delightful book on his Scottish Highland travels. John Mc?

One thing certain is that Canadian forces, including our secretive JTF-2 (Joint Task Force 2), are always welcomed in your ranks. I appreciated an earlier post from a former American soldier who praised them for their fighting and dying as brothers in arms.

But back to the rifle and ammunition: I don't know who makes Canada's .50 calibre ammunition nor the rifle under discussion. The mount and scope that set the record in Afghanistan was Canadian, according to my American correspondent. Do you know the rifle and ammo maker?

C'mon, Kingsley. You can come up with all these off the wall "facts", but you don't know the answer to that simple question? Okay, I'll play along.

McMillan TAC-50 rifle

Hornady A-Max 750 grain VLD ammo

But, pretending does not add credibility to "ignorance".

SRH

I looked it up. The Mcmillan TAC 50 is made in Arizona is the standard sniper rifle used by the Canadian Army. It's a bolt action rifle and shooting that big 50cal round. It must kick like a mule. Furlong's record was beaten by a Britisher shooting 338 Lapua round. I believe the 338 Lapua was developed by one of the Scandinavian countries. I've been hearing great things about the 338 Lapua in that it has a modest recoil for its power and distance. It is supposedly the round adopted by the Air Force snipers. I have a low regard for Air Force snipers. But it was the Air Force who first started buying the AR 15. They might be on to something now

Isn't that rude, Stan? I made no claim on facts. I provided my sources. I said I wished I could be definitive. I understand crankiness but to impute base motives for asking a question is unreasonable.

Thanks for the information, pooch. I just googled Canada's sniper ammunition and it appears that it's made in Canada by General Dynamics.

Here ya go , tre

https://youtu.be/5Z9mR_Hjp-A

So many greats. Loved Bobby Orr.


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How can you call Stan rude King? When you've told as many lies as you have here, is it any wonder your credibility sucks? I've said many times that it is important to check on any "facts or figures" you post here, because you have posted absolute bullshit so often. Don't play the innocent gentleman game.

You know what's even more interesting than hockey or Canadian politics King? The ravings of an anti-2nd Amendment Troll who is in denial about his own anti-gun rhetoric. Can you identify the Liberal Left Socialist Loon who made these statements in an attempt to undermine our gun rights?







You would really have to have a lot of misfiring neurons to post crap like that on a forum for gun enthusiasts and expect them to believe you aren't supportive of infringing upon our gun rights, eh King? Why do you think someone could be so deranged as to be in denial of their own words???

King, I was responding in a straightforward way to what I thought was your questioning of my credibility. My intention wasn't to be rude, but to respond in a like manner to your backhanded way of saying you didn't believe my claim. All you had to do was google it to find out what rifle and ammo he was using. If I was wrong, my opinion was based on my reading your posts for years about interviewing and researching facts for articles you've written. It just seems badly out of "character" that you would not have taken the few seconds necessary to look it up yourself before typing what you did.

SRH

The latest long distance kill that has been reported was the Britisher who killed a counter sniper at 1.5 miles in Mosul, Iraq last month. He was using another American made rifle. It is the newest bad boy on the block, and is made near here in Charleston, SC ....... the CheyTac (Cheyenne Tactical) Intervention, chambered for their proprietary .408 round. It is based on the old .505 Gibbs case. I'm not sure if it set a new long distance record, or not.

SRH

The information I have on the latest record holder and maybe out of date is a Brit named Greg Harrison shooting the Brits hopped up 338 Lapua. His shot was 2400 plus meters. Which is amazing considering The 338 Lapua is supposed to have a max effective range of 1700 meters. Wiki says the 338Lapua was developed in the US and that the Finns built a Sako to handle the round. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the FInns that actually developed the round as they are a tough bunch of cookies over there and in to long range shooting. By the way it is rumored that he was using a Schmidt & Bender scope.

I've never shot a 338. I don't like big guns because I don't like to shoot big game and I'm going deaf so I have to avoid really load noises. But when I was younger I had friends that hunted in a Alaska with the 338 mag and just swore by it. There must be something about that 338 bullet size that makes it so efficient.

The Democratic Party in the United States is nothing less than a legalized Terrorist/Communist Organization that's embedded itself in our political system.

Why is this "Stop Trump" movement not being looked at as a terrorist organization.....any group trying to undermine our government is a terrorist organization.

Understood, Stan. My credibility is so rarely questioned here that I assume sincerity and try to respond with calm reason. I was trained to ask questions and believe it reasonable to ask anyone of anything providing it is not mean or mischievous. In my experience, people like to be asked for assistance.

It's interesting to me that some members quickly suggested ignorance or mischief on my part for forgetting the Viking presence---I led underwater exploration for that presence offshore Nova Scotia in the early 50s---and for not looking up sniper details which I should have at hand.

I asked "Isn't that rude?" because I know a fair bit of your reasonable character. I don't play around, either. Two things I was taught for situations of differing opinions and information are never to assume anything or impute motives without serious contemplation.

Let's leave it there. I appreciate your reply. I didn't expect different.

Please don't use my handle in your fiction. Stan has already told us the bullet used: It was a Hornady A-Max 750 grain VLD round.

Both Harrison and Furlong took out machine gun shooters. This impresses me and I consider it to be pretty ballsy because in my youth I had to lug around an old 1919 A4 Browning MG. A machine gun is a long range shooter, we would dial it in to 1000 yds, but the rounds could carry farther. A machine gun can be like an artillery piece. If the bad guys were using that Russian MG those snipers were facing a pretty decent gun. A gun fight with an MG at max range usually doesn't go well.

And he could use a little more support from his own party, you want a special prosecutor for the Russian fairytale, we'll agree to that if you agree to a special prosecutor for Hillary's private server.

The Democrats would have dropped this investigation in a heart beat. But where were these Republicans that will help? Hiding under the bed I suspect leaving President Trump high and dry.

Like they say, with friends like these who needs enemies.

After being admonished for not looking up the information, I went to the same or similar sources as you and Stan. Quebec plants have been turning out sporting and military ammo for generations. It appears they still do, including sniper .50. Since you're both certain they buy from Hornady, I'll hoist it aboard.

Another thing the American colonel involved in US and Canadian sniper training and Afghanistan action debriefing told me is that one thing separated the Canadian and US snipers: "The Canadians never gave me any bullshit. They didn't claim to be one-shot artists, forgetting their misses."

Which left a big question with me. Did they answer straight-up from an overweening deference to authority? That Patricia's crowd was as wild a group of soldiers I've ever seen. I didn't check Furlong. Maybe he was one of them. Although there should be no separation of prowess from the truth.

(Maybe the question could go the other way: Could the American snipers on this particular occasion have been deferring to authority, wanting to please?)

A long interesting read about Furlong and the Canadian military

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/we-were-abandoned/

That would be "Plunging Fire".

Kind of like plunging shotgun fire. You shoot in bursts so that several rounds hit in the targeted area nearly simultaneously. You don't have single round accuracy at long ranges, you have burst accuracy.

You also knock the sniper off his scope. Fire to suppress is just as effective.

Yeah, getting into a gunfight with a rifle against a machine gun at a distance is not for the meek of heart.

Easier, and much more spectacular, with an M203. However, a Battalion Six firing TIme on Target pretty much says it all, excepting when the Iowa Class was still in commission. (I wish I had seen that, I saw a film of it when I was in AGOS at Eglin. We actually got the Commander of Syrian forces in Lebanon with one) A Cluster Bomb impact is exciting, had that one a few Clicks away in Iraq.

Best thing for snipers, a Battery One of VT.

Regards
Ken

I'm doing range sweeps for a subroc program that was making shoots at San Clemente. The sub is not going to shoot for a while cause the engineers have found a problem so we are airborne, loafing above an under cast half asleep. A destroyer Captain calls and says he is Vietnam bound with a green crew and needs to do some shooting at San Clemente range. WE OK it. I'm loafing and out in front appears this cute little black cloud. First black cloud I'd ever seen. Suddenly the sky is full of little black clouds and they are way too close. Those knot heads are shooting their anti aircraft through an overcast without clearing it. We dive down and tell them to knock it off. They go over to the target area and start shooting. We are low now watching because we don't trust them. They are bouncing their 5 inch shells on the water two or three times before the shells get to the target area, these gunners can't even hit an island. I could just imagine being in a landing craft headed for the beach with some knot heads on a destroyer bouncing his "friendly" fire all around me. So much for the pinpoint accuracy of Naval gunfire. Glad I went the aviation route.

Like a buddy once said "I think we entertained more VC then we killed".

"Enough of this insubordination!"

The subject is hockey.


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Michigan National Guard on deployment
https://youtu.be/9p5ZfDg3zdo

"King", the reason your credibility is rarely questioned here is that you have NO credibility here. I, certainly, do not suffer Marxists well.

As far as the Lapua is considered, it is a 338/378 Weatherby without a belt. The 338/378 and 300/378 were developed in the 1960's due to interest by our g'ment. With a 250 grain bullet, the factory ballistics (3050 fps) are 50 fps over Lapua. I have loaded it in a 338/378 Keith Thompson to 3450 fps(104 gr 4350...work up from 90 grains), but it was a barrel burner. For this reason, I dropped back to 3250 FPS. Weatherby made 5 of these guns in the 1960's with the last one named 340/378 but differed in name only. With a break, it can be comfortably fired all day long.

As far as the Browning 50 is concerned, the common loads are 650 and 750 grains at about 2700fps developing 14,500 ft-lbs of energy. It is a comfortable gun to shoot at 24#s as mine was, but is commonly available in 30-40lb guns. A local got one for his 18 yr old daughter for Christmas. She loves it. Of course it might be too much gun for a Marxist Canadian.