W&C Scott Premier Imperial
12 gauge
30" Damascus barrels choked 33 and 34 thousanths
21 minimum wall thicknesses
Sideclips
Crossbolt
Ejectors
Made in 1892
7 pounds 5 ounces
14-5/8 x 1-9/16 x 2-9/16
Stock broken in wrist - pinned repair.
Mike, you must be proud of this gun, but I can feel the energy being sucked right out of the bbs.
Sometimes, smaller is better - I feel like I'm at a drive-in again.
Interesting, all finish turned to brown red including trigger guard. This is particular the case of Bad Storage Conditions. I wonder where it was for at least last 50 years, on garage shelf?Straigt candidate to total refurbushing.
very nice! could anyone please put a name to the damascus pattern on the barrels.
thank you
Thanks for the replies!
Lowell do you mean that when people view the thread the large pictures load up the BBS hardware and slow the service down? I am not challenging your statement - I just want to understand.
Geno - the receiver and trigger guard are "French gray" - just my poor photography skills make them look dark brown. It is just the barrels that are a very dark brown. The barrels have not been refinished. I have been negotiating to buy it for three years - it was at a pawn shop. And the pawn shop did keep it stored in the orginal W&C Scott case - with the lid closed.
Thanks Mr W.
Mike
Deleted double post, please excuse.
Mike
I believe the Damascus is Fine or Finest Damascus Three Rod, if Fine would be 67% steel, Finest would be 70% steel.
That's American terminology, don't know what the Britts would call it, the one thing it's all the same what ever name.
BTW, forgot to mention, a very beautiful gun and it shows the workmanship. Seems that most to all pre-1900 guns made here and in the U.K. were the finest quality compared to later.
JDW - thanks. My friend Flintsteel and I had an interesting conversation with Dale Edmonds about the lack of color contrast in the Damascus. He said he has run into barrels from this period where he cannot get contrast. He speculated that the steel had more carbon and wouldn't take the color. Dale said he had picked up a two volume set of books by "Walsh" from the 1880s and that there was discussion in the book of the English makers starting to make their own Damascus tubes instead of importing them. He again speculated the barrels on my WC Scott could be made in England. Anway he knew immediately what we were talking about when we started describing the color and lack of contrast.
Best,
Mike
Stunning Mike-your Brits might be proud to hunt with you now!
I agree with David-looks to be very high quality '3 Iron Crolle' and I'm going to add the pics to the 'Damascus Barrels' PictureTrail
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery.fcgi?p=999&gid=16082038Check out the (black & white) pattern on the T. Kilby
Your Imperial is very interesting. Scott's top tier guns were known for their scroll and game scenes. The oak leaf is often seen on the Excelletia Triplex guns.
It is my opionion only but I think the buttstock is a replacement. The checkering is very American is style and execution. The white line pad is obviously an American addition.
Here are two pictures of another Imperial Premier that were shown on this BBS.
Utah Shotgunner, Mike asked me to go with him to the pawn shop to examine the gun since for some reason I've never understood he considers me to be fairly knowledgable about these guns. Well, when I saw the checkering pattern on the stock I immediately said it was no doubt a restock--and a rather newish American one at that. Then I commented that the barrels seemed to have been refinished at some time because of the rather uniform blacking with little damascus pattern showing in normal light. "Blah, blah"....on I rambled with my high and mighty opinion. I discouraged Mike from even trying to buy it, saying the only thing original was the action.... Well, all I can say is I've been eating a bit of crow. I found a picture of the gun in William Reed & Sons catalog circa about 1906 that shows the exact checkering pattern! And then after Mike and I visited with Dale Edmonds and had a chance to look at the barels under magnification it is obvious the barrels have never been touched on the outside. So, I have learned a huge lesson in "looking" at a gun and "LOOKING" at a gun. Preconceived ideas and opinions are dangerous. I know this--had I known then what I know now Mike sure wouldn't be the current owner....I would. It is an incredible example of the best of the best workmanship from one of England's best makers. Congratulations, Mike on beating me outta this one!
Thanks Utah and thank you Joe.
I have a reprint of the Westley Richards 1912 catalogue that shows their "Modelle De Luxe" with the Fluer-di-lis (SP?) engraving. The checkering at the wrist was redone after the repair of the broken stock. It is not as good as the checkering on the forearm but still very good.
Here is a link to the repro catalogue Joe references:
http://cgi.ebay.com/William-Read-Shotgun...bayphotohosting I am in the process of reducing the size of the pictures but if you look you at one of the barrel pictures it says "Imperial Premier".
Best,
Mike
Wow - great gun. That's the earliest Imperial Premier I've ever seen.
Thanks for the pics.
OWD
Oh and thanks RevDoc. I am pleased you are including the picture in your damascus gallery!
Here is a link to my photbucket site thing - maybe there is a better picture.
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/AmarilloMike/W_and_C_Scott/Best,
Mike
Edit - I put in the correct link
JDW
thanks for the info re damascus pattern.it is an almost identical pattern to the barrels of a 1904 british shotgun that i own and i am very curious re description.
cheers
First - I wrote the barrel says "Imperial Premier" and it actually is marked "Premier Imperial".
Here is a link to a repro catalog Cornell Publications sells. It
has a labeled picture of a W&C Scott Premier Imperial with the identical stock checkering pattern on mine. The label is on the lower left hand corner(Thanks Joe).
http://www.cornellpubs.com/Images/Read-1906.jpgMike
Since these pictures are not hosted on this site, it does not take memory from this BBS's server. The size of the picture does not cost this BBS in any way that I know of.
Learn something everyday.
I saw the rib inscription. I was not implying that it was not an Imperial. I tried to say (poorly) that it was just odd to see an Imperial with such engraving. I have a 10ga Premier with 100% scroll and no animals. These were custom ordered guns so you could order it however you might want.
The fleur de lis(sp?) was factory??? Well Scott really targeted the market in U.S.A. so I can see it being done. Still surprising on a gun made pre 1900. Winchester really put that type of checkering in the public eye but many years later.
As to pictures size, much better now. It doesn't cost the site anything but I won't scroll and often will back out of a thread with huge pictures. For this thread I stayed with it because I like Scotts but others may have moved on. As I said, much better now.
Joe,
The next time you see and Imperial Premier and you don't want it, feel free to call me. I have had the pleasure to own a couple Premiers but have only seen Imperials in pictures. A damascus Imperial like this one would be my dream find.
OWD - thanks! I am tickled to death with it.
Utah - I did think you thought it might be a different grade. I just looked at the pictures you posted on this thread again. I believe the Premier Imperial you posted has the same checkering pattern as mine. The checkering on the action end of my forend looks just like the one you posted. My forend is fluer di lis pattern.
Best!
Mike
Years ago I purchased a copy of the two Vol. Set " British Sporting Guns and Rifles" by Geo. Hoyem. It's a compilation of Catalogs from the great makers and I think I've looked at it twice.
Just took a look and they have a full reprint of Webley's 1922 catalog. They show a straight stocked Imperial Premier but it has the same checkering pattern as Mike's, just altered a bit for the straight hand.
AM, nice gun and good call on getting it in spite of Joe's input :-)
My first reaction was as Utah's concerning the checkering. That is why I sign (AL).
JC (Always Learning)
Coryreb thanks - I didn't know how it worked.
Rob - thanks for the information. I ordered the William and Read repro catalog from Abby yesterday - along with the W&C Scotts catalogs she has. I hope they have a good description.
JayCee Thanks! Joe got me into collecting old doubles and has saved me from buying dozens of "snakes" over the last few years. I tell people he is my gun buying coach and am very grateful to him. Three years ago I made an offer on the Scott. The pawn shop owner made a counter. I said OK but first I wanted to get my expert to check it out. Joe found the repaired break in the wrist that I had missed. I thought it had browned steel barrels (they are very dark) but Joe recognized immediately that they were damascus. The minimum wall thicknesses are 21 and 22 thousandths and Joe went on about refinishing and lining etc... in front of the pawnshop owner. Anyway I bought the gun last month for half of what the counter was three years ago. Joe has given me excellent advice. I try reciprocate by giving him shooting lessons :>)
Best,
Mike