Gentlemen,
Was the Ithaca Flues model the only Ithaca doublegun model that had the frame crack failure, or were other ithaca guns simularly plagued? In the year of manufacture chart the Western Arms models are not included and I am wondering about them? Are they simular to the flues? I somehow beleive them to be of later manufacture and have a "work horse" reputation, is this correct?
Thank-you,
Kurt
western are written about after the l.c.smith guns as "western long range.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/dgsnos5.htmDon't ever remember seeing that the Western arms had weak actions, just bottom line firearms but more then serviceable.
Kurt, these guns were a lower priced version of the Lefever Nitro Special made by Ithaca. They had a frame made of mallable iron rather than forged steel, no checkering, they seem to hold up ok but are rather crude in workmanship. My serial list shows that they were made from 1929 to 1946 and had their own serial number range from 1 to 65779. They are similar to a 311 Stevens and I see prices that are in my opinion are ridiculous. I wouldn't give more than 200 or so for one in 12 ga and it would have to be pretty nice. I see them on the auction sites for 500 to 700; you can find NID Ithacas for that price, or decent Belgian box locks that are far better guns.
Jim A.
James - What is the disadvantage of the mallable iron frame ? Are the Westerns better than the 311's or the other way ?
I saw a MDL 21 20 bore with a cracked frame years ago. Even the strongest had problems on occcasion.
bill
Capt Billy, there probably isn't any disadvantage as far as strength is concerned, I think Ithaca used it on these guns because of cost. It was less expensive to cast the frame rather than forge it, as it was made to sell at a low price. I have never seen one with a broken frame but I believe that frame failure is a combination of bad design and improper loads. If you inspect a Flues action you will note that there is very little metal left in the bar under the standing breech because of the cocking arrangement. Combine that with loads the guns were not designed to be used with, you have a disaster waiting to happen. Western Arms and 311 Stevens were made to sell at about the same price, they are both dependable functional guns made for utility not beauty.
Jim A.
I'd venture that most cracked frame problems were usually caused by the nut behind the trigger using the wrong load.
James, wb and others,
Thank you for the replies and information! Exactly what I wanted to know.
Thanks again,
Kurt
I have a 410 Western Arms that is nearly mint but one thing has always bothered me about it. The case colors are like in pastel colors not the normal bright ones. Anyone has any thoughts on this?
Tom
I have a 20 western arms, it is not pretty, but I would have to say much better balanced then a stevens 311 (and much lighter) I have shot a bunch of birds with it.
Tom: The Western Arms case colors were cyanide, rather than the bone charcoal used on both the Ithaca NIDs and Lefever Nitro Specials of that era.