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Posted By: Marks_21 Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 11:47 AM
Summertime humidity in the south is a constant plague. I use bags of desiccant in the safe but still see surface flashing on guns more regularly than I care to. I considered taking a few guns I don't shoot so often and giving them a typical light patch of oil wipe and then vacuum sealing them with a food sealer before tucking them back in the safe. Thoughts? Am I nuts ?
Posted By: claycrusher1900 Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 11:49 AM
Never thought of that. Sounds like it might work if you have dessecant packs in there, otherwise any humidity that gets trapped in the bag with still rust the guns.

What about using a quality oil and re oil it once a month maybe?
Posted By: Marks_21 Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 12:09 PM
I'd be happy with oil suggestions. I use hoppes gun oil , Lucas oils gun oil, remoil, outers. They all seem about the same to me. Certainly if I was oiling once a month id be ok, I find it hard to commit
Posted By: GLS Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 12:10 PM
I'd be concerned with some sort of reaction with the metal and vacuum bag material. I've read accounts of bubble wrap leaving a film on gun barrels and wouldn't rule out the same with the bag material. If you pursue that route, I would dig deeper into the issue. A good HVAC system in the house does wonders for lowering the humidy here in coastral Georgia. Gil
Posted By: DAM16SXS Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 12:11 PM
Try Ballistol.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 12:16 PM
It's humid as it gets here and I've never experienced any rust problem in either of my gun safes....on the other hand a buddy of mine had his in a bedroom next to a bathroom door and he had a serious rust problem. He put in a Golden Rod and it fixed his problem.

For a protectant I use Ezzox...
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 12:24 PM
I have a gun safe in an area with no HVAC, in the Coastal Plain of Georgia. I put a Goldenrod in it when I got it, wipe my guns down lightly with any old decent gun oil, and have never seen even a dusting of rust in many years. If, however, I leave them out of the safe in that area, bets are off. They will almost rust as you watch.

SRH
Posted By: claycrusher1900 Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 12:35 PM
I'd try Gunzilla, it's made here in Michigan. I've run it on my 3 gun competition guns for several years now, it has seemed to last longer on them and my otherguns longer then hoppes or Rem oil that iI've used in the past. I oil up my deer rifle at the end of November, and the next fall it's still has a nice film on it. And it's available on Amazon
Posted By: Flintfan Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 12:38 PM
My go to for long term storage is Birchwood Casey's Barricade. Whatever you use make sure it is specifically made for rust prevention, not all oils are.
Posted By: Abn Sarge Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 01:18 PM
Some people like Ford, Some Chevy and some Dodge. When I have to use a rust preventative I use CLP (cleaner, lubricant, preservative)made by Break Free. This is the rust preventative used by the Army. It was used on items that were stored in less than perfect conditions like barrels on tanks stored outside with no problems.
After the WWII M1 rifles were stored in sealed drums with a light coat of oil and a desiccant for long term storage. I believe that this procedure worked.
Posted By: Mitch Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 02:41 PM
There is no HVAC system where my safe is located either. I don't have problems with rust what I have is mold trying to grow on the gun stocks. It's an all summer long battle to keep it cleaned off. Any suggestions on how to stop this would be appreciated. I do have a Golden Rod installed and another device for safes that circulates warm air. By the way I live on the gulf coast. Thanks, Mitch
Posted By: James M Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 02:49 PM
I coat the exterior of my guns with Renaissance Wax and I've never had any kind of rust problem. Keep in mind that any oil used is permeable and probably won't keep moisture from your firearms.
It is typical that some of the used firearms I acquire have surface rust on them. I remove this using a product such as Flitz before coating them with Renaissance Wax and the rust has not returned.
Jim
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 03:07 PM
James,
I can't imagine rust is the issue in Arizona that it is is some other parts of the world.
That said, getting back to the original question, I suspect trying to vacuum seal guns could actually be a disaster, if the vacuum got near the threshold of 22 inches or so. Any moisture left in the wood would begin to boil off around 20 inches, and I don't believe this would be a good thing. It would likely result in splits, cracks and shrinkage over time.
I doubt a home food preservation system can get down to that level of vacuum, but, it might just be a case of the same thing happening but, not quite as much of it at once.
The best way to counter rust is to find a way to keep the metal in the guns at the same temperature and the same hunidity (40-50) at all times. If the metal is cool and is suddenly put in warmer, more humid air, you will get condensation, and it will begin under the oil you have put on the gun, rendering it useless.
If you can't control the temp and humidity, you will have a hard time controlling rust.

Best,
Ted
Posted By: bill schodlatz Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 03:12 PM
Here in LA I use plain old WD40, yes it gums up, but that gum is bullet proof when it comes to rust. WD also makes a long term rust proofing oil that tested best amoung all the gun oils on the market.
bill
Posted By: cpa Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 05:37 PM
I've been using a small piece of sheepskin saturated with RIG for almost 50 years. I just wipe them down and do nothing else - have even stored them in cases. Some guns have been in storage for years with the RIG wipedown with no signs of rust. And I live in a pretty humid area, altho nothing like the gulf coast.
Posted By: LeverHead Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 06:31 PM
Take s look at this...

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=398836

I've used Hornady's CLP with great success since seeing the results of this less-than-scientific test. Frog Lube would also get s nod, though I've never used it.

I wouldn't vacuum pack a gun. Even with desiccant bags, you want air flow around steel. Using a high quality rust preventer like above and a gun sock when the gun is going to spend some time out of the safe has worked wonderfully for me.
Posted By: James M Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 06:57 PM
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
James,
I can't imagine rust is the issue in Arizona that it is is some other parts of the world.
That said, getting back to the original question, I suspect trying to vacuum seal guns could actually be a disaster, if the vacuum got near the threshold of 22 inches or so. Any moisture left in the wood would begin to boil off around 20 inches, and I don't believe this would be a good thing. It would likely result in splits, cracks and shrinkage over time.
I doubt a home food preservation system can get down to that level of vacuum, but, it might just be a case of the same thing happening but, not quite as much of it at once.
The best way to counter rust is to find a way to keep the metal in the guns at the same temperature and the same hunidity (40-50) at all times. If the metal is cool and is suddenly put in warmer, more humid air, you will get condensation, and it will begin under the oil you have put on the gun, rendering it useless.
If you can't control the temp and humidity, you will have a hard time controlling rust.

Best,
Ted

Ted:
In a general sense you are correct and rust is not a major problem here. However I get unprotected guns in all the time that I've either bought or that have been left for appraisal. It is rare to fine an example that doesn't have at least some surface rust on it. I have no way of knowing where these firearms were in past years and it's possible they were moved here from a more humid climate.
Another reason I use Renaissance Wax is it protects metal from others handling the firearm.
I'm sure you've seen the result from uncleaned fingerprints left on firearms over the years and it isn't a pretty sight!
Jim
Posted By: NCTarheel Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 08:40 PM
Mitch,

Distilled white vinegar will take care of your mold problem, but you should make sure you use clean cloths to apply and throw them away and do not be tempted to reuse. Some recommend that you dilute 50-50 with water, but I apply more liberally, and I have not had a problem with leather. Mold spores are a challenge to get rid of unless you get aggressive. I have no clue how vinegar will effect stock finishes, but I know it will eliminate the mold.

NCTarheel
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/23/16 10:28 PM
If you vacuum pack a gun, there is still air inside. Despite all of the vacuum pack claims for foods, I still get freezer burned meat in them. Here we don't need to worry about rust, but I have heard, and have no experience, that the Goldenrod works fine in a gun safe.
Posted By: keith Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/24/16 12:01 AM
I'll add one more vote for the Goldenrod in a gun safe. One friend has a very large safe that is in his unheated/ un-air conditioned garage, and a Golderod inside keep his guns from rusting. That was enough to convince me. While not in a Southern climate, we do get several months of humid weather in the summer. I also like RIG for long term storage, and have had good luck with Eezox, Ballistol, Hoppes Gun Oil, and numerous other brands when I am diligent enough to do periodic maintenance. And I acquired many large bags of Silica Gel desiccant which also works great if you remember to bake it once in a while to drive off the moisture. I have a couple guns stored in VPI or Vapor Phase Inhibitor bags that are remaining rust free even though they are past the advertised expiration date. VPI seems like an interesting concept, but I wonder about the long term health effects of having those vapors in your home.
Posted By: Tomball Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/24/16 01:38 AM
Same for me, used rig for years to prevent rust in use and in storage
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/24/16 02:52 AM
VPI paper (vapor phase inhibiting, IIRC) as sold by Brownell's, is very good stuff. I have only used it for protecting the bores of m/l rifle barrels, but it has worked perfectly for me for going on 30 years. I have several .40 to .50 caliber m/l barrels, in the white, in my shop. I recently found one that I thought I had sold 15 years ago. It is a custom rifled round ball match barrel with a false muzzle. I was shocked when I "uncovered" it, and immediately checked it's condition. When I pulled out the rolled up VPI paper and looked through the unbreeched bore it was perfect. That barrel was untouched, in a terribly humid environment with no HVAC, for all those years and had absolutely no rust. It had been simply wiped down, inside and out, with RIG, then had a fresh piece of VPI paper rolled up and inserted the full length of the bore.

SRH
Posted By: Rocketman Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/24/16 03:18 AM
+1 for wax - Ren wax being as good a choice as I know. Try it.

DDA
Posted By: Replacement Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/24/16 04:04 AM
Quote:
I have no clue how vinegar will effect stock finishes, but I know it will eliminate the mold.

Vinegar will remove bluing, so be careful.
Posted By: Jpari Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/24/16 12:52 PM
How about a VCI gun sock. This is not a silicone sock. They are sold by several companies. Run about $12.00. They are made specifically for long term storage of firearms in humid or damp environments. I have been using them for years and have not seen a speck of rust on any of my guns since.
Posted By: Chuck H Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/25/16 04:41 AM
I've used plastic bags and dry nitrogen to store machined parts for long term. Standard cosmoline or similar coating, craft paper, and a nitrogen purge of the bag.
Posted By: Tyler Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/27/16 09:57 PM
Golden Rods and Rig have served me well for over 30 years. Humidity here in Alabama is among the worst!!
Posted By: Geo. Newbern Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/27/16 10:13 PM
Just plain old heat and air conditioning have always worked for me in south GA. My safe is in a closet with an hvac vent close by. No shortage of humidity here...Geo
Posted By: GregSY Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/28/16 02:21 AM
How could you have a gun safe in a non-HVAC area?

It's stuns me that people will have a couch, a table, and a TV stand - all made in China and worthless - in the middle of their living room but will keep a gun safe outside.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/28/16 02:51 AM
You stun too easily. I was given an antique Mosler double door safe that I converted to a large gun safe. It weighs 5200#, is roughly 7 ft. tall, 3 1/2 ft. wide and 3 ft. deep (front to back). It sits on four iron wheels. I live in an old farmhouse built in 1875. No concrete slab floors here. I wouldn't want a 5200# safe sitting, on four little iron wheels, on my wood floors even if I could get it through the doors, which I can't. THAT is one reason someone would.

BTW, never had a problem with it or the guns inside it in many years.

SRH
Posted By: keith Re: Vacuum sealing guns. Thoughts? - 02/28/16 04:14 AM
Stan's antique Mosler sounds virtually identical to the very large commercial safe my friend has in his garage. We about killed ourselves just getting it unloaded and into his garage when he bought it and brought it home on a tilt bed car hauler. Getting it into his house without major modifications would have been impossible. But even with temperature and humidity extremes from dry sub-zero in winter to extremely humid 100+ degrees in summer, his Goldenrod and normal maintenance keeps his guns, micrometers, verniers, and other tools rust free. Just that low wattage gentle heat source is plenty to keep the inside just slightly warmer than the outside so that any damp air cannot condense on the surface of steel.
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