I'm trying to figure out the cartridge for this old hammer cape gun. Twist shotgun barrel is 16 ga. The fluid steel rifle is 67,49 gauge. From the markings can you tell me more about the rifle cartridge? I'm hoping the 4,5 gr NGP ?/71 helps. thanks Jeff

Jeff;
Just recently another poster had a Drilling with this same mark on the rifle barrel. briefly the 67/49 is the "Gauge" of the bore which was marked prior to 1912. 67.49 gauge calculates to a bore diameter of .410" or 10.41mm. Note that this is the bore diameter, not groove diameter so you are likely looking at a bullet of approximately 10.75mm or .423".
11 mm converts to .433" so not likely quite that large but not to be totally counted out either. "I THINK" that the way these gus were marked at this point in time the bore could be up to anything just short of accepting the next size up which was 62/78 or .420" (10.67MM) so an 11 mm cartridge is not totally out of the question.

To determine exact cartridge for which it is chambered I would highly recommend slugging the bore & making a chamber cast to determine exact dimensions of the chamber & bore. You can scroll down to page 2 & find the other post which concerns a Drilling for additional comments.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=435482#Post435482

The proof load would have been 4,5 grammes of NGP M/71 type powder. Was it stamped twice on the same tube or is that some type of odd reflection? I fancy that large K, being either the maker or tube source. The tubeset knitter mechanic CFW was a source for H.A. Lindner.



Me thinks this is Charles Daly Nr. 109 with CFW initials.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

NGP M/71 would be Neue Gewehr Pulver Modell/1871 if memory serves me correctly.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey;
Do note this is a cape gun. It's highly unlikely the 16 gauge barrel would have received the same proof as the rifle bbl.
I may be missing it but do not see a nitro Proof on either barrel. Most likely this cartridge was a Black Powder round.

2-piper,
NGP M71 was a black powder. BTW you are absolutely correct that the only way to determine the nominal caliber of this gun it to make a chambercast. Even then, it may not be easy because there may be more than one similar cartridge.
Mike

Thanks to Miller, Skeettx, Raimey and Mike for the quick replies. As usual, the depth and breadth of knowledge here is impressive.

I will recommend that the owner get chamber cast and slug the bore. But, unlikely he'll be able to feed this old black powder cape gun.

Jeff

It would be a shame, if he didn't try, at least. If he does try, I suspect he will have a lot of help.
Mike

Once you get those measurements post them back here. There are a lot of references to the older cartridges which can be found as well as possible modern Brass which can be modified to fit. There are not many which absolutely cannot be fired, just depends sometimes on how much effort one is willing to spend.