i have reloaded rifle and pistol ammo for decades, but have always used store-bought shotgun shells. well, the number of 2 1/2" 12b shells i am shooting is climbing. i have been saving my RST empty shells and am about to make the commitment to reloading.

my main question is what is a range of typical prices per shell should i expect to pay if i do reload?

could you please give me a ballpark figure on the price of single stage hardware required to reload these shells? it would be for relatively low volume shooting.

thanks!

Marc,

I have just recently been successful(?) in reloading some 12 gauge 2 1/2 inch shells using once fired RST hulls. I load 1/2 and 3/4 ounce lead loads. I'm using a MEC Sizemaster loader.

I use Alliant Extra Lite powder for the 1/2 ounce loads and IMR 700X for the 3/4 ounce loads. I use Winchester primers and Claybuster 6100-12 wads. I use a 0.125 inch thick card wad in the bottom of the wad for the 1/2 ounce loads.

I made a quick attempt at using a shot shell reload calculator but was not successful in getting a per shell cost. I haven't given up on that, will try again later.

Forgive me for doing a quick reply, getting late here and it's past my bedtime. I can get back to you later with more detail if you'd like. (And hopefully, I'll figure out how to use that calculator.)

Edited my post after trying that calculator again and figured it out.
Cost for the 1/2 ounce loads is about $4.23 per box of 25 and $4.59 for the 3/4 ounce loads.
Be happy to provide my component cost if you's like.

Jolly

as far as equipment

find a good used MEC 600JR on eBay (or often found on craigslist)

then order a short kit for the loader

lots of dealers carry them - for example

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1308849

It's Five Dollars a box more or less. I don't use the cheapest components .

. Mec 600 will do it Mec Sizemaster will do it better . I have a 600 with the short kit it does not size Cheddite hulls very well. Most times I size and prime on a PW 375 finish the shell on the 600 with a short kit. Sizemaster would be easier no press switching.

You don't have to use Cheddite 2 1/2 inch hulls, several ways to cut better quality AAs or STS hulls to 2 1/2 inches. If you buy new Cheddites they have to be shortened to 2 1/2 inches so might as well set up to cut.

You can Roll crimp too, I want the roll route first, found a cheap 600 used now fold crimp almost everything.

Boats

There is a link from Trapshooters.com that you can use to put in the prices of your components and it will spit out the price of the shell.

http://www.trapshooters.com/pages/reloadcalc/

I would agree above, its probably going to cost you between $4.75 and $5.25 to reload after you buy the initial set up.

As for presses, while the Jr. will do the trick, if you are shooting more than one 12 gauge, the Sizemaster would serve you better. While the Jr. can use a "ring" for re-sizing the shell head, the Sizemaster's collet does a better job. If you are using one gun only in 12, then the Jr. would work fine as there is no need to re-size the shell head. The head would be "fire formed" to the gun's chamber. I mostly roll crimp, but those loads are low volume for woodcock and turkey. For those, I load new, primed hulls. Rolled hulls don't yield as many reloads as do pie crimps. Gil

Biggest cost is the shot. You save with lighter loads.

I load some 3/4 oz 12 G Lot of 7/8 oz and a few 1 oz. Some of my 12 G SxS's shoot 11/16 OZ very well and it's all you need for short clay targets. Most of the time load 7/8 OZ 7 1/2 to avoid changing the crimp adjustment though. Small volume run on the lighter loads, savings on shot not worth it.

Thing I like about loading short shells is you can tailor the load to the gun. No matter what the price hard to find mild loads suitable for SxS guns in some shot sizes.

Boats

I'm not sure MEC offers a short kit for their 12 gauge Sizemaster to change it from 2 3/4 inches to 2 1/2 inches, at least I didn't find one.

Simple solution is just make a 1/4 inch spacer to place under the shell at the Crimp Start station and Final Crimp station as illustrated below. And additional Rube Goldberg (an engineering term some of you may be familiar with) feature to add to that spacer is a rim guide to more precisely position to shell at that station and to keep the shell in place on the up stroke.

Jolly

If you don't have any 12 gauge 2 1/2 inch hulls for your short chambered gun, you can easily shorten 2 3/4 inch hulls and use a Hartin crimp.

Just shorten the hull 1/4 inch, use your powder, wads, etc. that you would use for your 2 3/4 inch loads but put an over shot card on top and crimp as you normally would. There's enough material left on the hull to crimp it securely. Of course the over shot card keeps the shot where it belongs. You can mark the card with your load, ie, 0.7 ounces.

Couple pictures below pretty much says it all. I did make a jig to position the hull precisely so that I would squarely cut off 1/4 inch using a serrated steak knife.

Jolly

I do about the same thing except run half a dozen at a time in the table saw. Sliding table that fits in the saws miter gauge slot with 6 holes, rest is just like your tool. Just finished 400 3 1/2 inch to 2 7/8 inch 10 G Federals. Either method yours or mine is a lot better than Precision Reloading’s Tool. It's hard to use and will wear your wrist out twisting the hull to cut.

And like in the photos you don't need a short kit at all if using O/S wads.

On Short Kits. I think Mec's kit fits 600 JR's and Size masters. But the home made rig shown works just as well I bet. Problem I had with the 600 Jr was with short 10 G hulls. Cheddites brass is thin and I was bending some rims when running the shell through the Decap and prime stage. Which caused jams closing the action. Bought a 10 G die for my P-W 375, size prime and knock the primed shell out of the die with a short Delrin rod dropped in the mouth and pushed by the knock out die. Then over to the Mec for powder wad shot and crimp. Mec Short conversion crimps are very nice. I should say I don't have this problem with short 12's

Extra work but no jams now.

Boats

Precision Reloading sells new 2 1/2" primed Cheddite hulls in 12 & 16 gauge. See link below.

https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!q=cheddite

I cannot give you a price on 2 1/2" reloads but my 2 3/4" using 3/4 oz. was below $4.00. That is using Red Dot(at the time, Claybuster wads and Eagle Brand shot. This was a few years ago when reloading prices were not as high as now.

I use 12 ga. 2 1/2" hulls for my vintage 1892 Greener. I cut the shells in my drill press using a dowel turned down to fit inside the hull and set the height next to a block holding a box cutter, push the cutter against the hull and it parts it smoothly.
This picture shows me cutting 20 gauge hulls to 2 1/2".

I roll crimp the 12 gauges with an old hand roll crimper, I find it faster than the one in the drill press.

These are 16 gauge done in the drill press using 2 1/2" 16 ga. Cheddites (bought)


As to using a spacer, I made one out of 1/4" aluminum and put it underneath my 600 Jr.

Well, not to be a party pooper, if you could use light and low pressure 2 3/4" loads in 2 1/2" guns, would you? Guess what!! You can. The main purpose of the 2 3/4" hull was to allow the loads used in ye 'olé 2 1/2" hull to be loaded into a folded/pie crimp case. Then, you can use compression formed hulls which will be good for several loads each. No surgery on hulls. No spacers or kits on your press. Oh, yes, go ahead and reload anyway. The savings and custom. Light loads are well worth it.

DDA

You can use longer hulls and many do, it,depends. AAs measure 2 11/16 many 2 1/2 inch chambers measure 2 5/8. 1/16 inch "too long". Not telling anybody what to do but I think 12 G AAs do fine in 2 5/8 chambers.

Almost all my short loading is 2 7/8 inch 10 G were I have to cut 5/8 inch off the hull. I had a 20 SxS that needed short now have two that don't. Stopped cutting 12s shorter.

Saving money ? Case of 100 2 7/8 inch 10 g, $ 120 dollars. Load them using the Mec with short kit 25 cents a shell.

Boats

JDW, I also find that the old hand cranked roll crimper low tech approach is efficient and more than satisfactory for my needs with a bonus of minimal storage space. I have them in all gauges but use them primarily in .410, 20 and 16. In the past, I have loaded 16 for snipe at the rate of about a box an hour as I weigh each charge and load. I don't need as many shells for woodcock or turkey. I have yet to have the courage to mount the crimper in the horizontal as you do, but mount it vertically on a clamped board with the crimper head on top. Gil

The "short kit" for a MEC will work on either a 600 or a Sizemaster. You can switch from 2.75 to 2.5" in seconds. I've switched from roll crimp to Hartin crimps for my 2.5". As to saving money, you will have to shoot A LOT to recoup the cost of equipment. I look at handloading much the same as fly tying, the pleasure of my handloads out performing factory stuff and the ability to load specific loads I can not buy. Handloading has always been a hobby in and of itself for me.

I think Chuck H. said it best when he wrote practicality disappears when a hunter drives past the first KFC on his way to the hunt. Gil

Cobbhead,
I could not find a Short Kit for a 12 gauge Sizemaster to convert 2 3/4 " to 2 1/2". I looked again, same result - did not see one.
I may contact them directly and see what that turns up.

And absolutely: "the pleasure of my handloads out performing factory stuff and the ability to load specific loads I can not buy."

Jolly

The part number is 1008850 for the short kit. Mecs phone number is 1-800-797-4632. I can reload a box of 12ga 3/4oz loads for under $4 a box, but I buy in volume through our club and there's no shipping or sales tax.

Jolly,
My shortkit, purchased from BPI I believe, is simply a 1/4" steel plate that fits under the spring and shell holding plate. The offical nae appears to be "Quick hull length converter". I do know it works on my 600 20 ga. and Sizemaster 12 ga. Simply relieve the spring pressure and slip the plate under the shell holder plate. No need buy new dies. Happen to have a BPI brochure under my elbow....part number you're looking for is MEC 1308849. $25.99 from BPI. Likely cheaper from Amazon or Ebay if you're so inclined.

Paul and Cobbhead,

I did send a note to MEC and Ron replied: "The Short kit #8849 will for the 3” to 2 ¾” conversion and also 2 ¾” to 2 ½” conversion."

and their kit table shows: "Converts 12 Or 20 Gauge 3" To 2-3/4" 1008849 $36.06" (Does not mention to 2 1/2".)

And their 1008850 shows: "Converts 12 Gauge 3-1/2" To 3" Or 2-3/4" 1008850 $48.75"

It is not apparent from their table or on their web site that their kits show the 2 3/4" to 2 1/2" 12 gauge kits.

And sounds like the BPI system is more economical or I can maintain my frugal (as in cheap) ways by using my 1/4" thick piece of wood. But I will for sure check out the BPI part. Sounds much better.

Thanks for your help.

And Marc, have we helped you out?

Jolly

I am going to guess Ron at MEC just isn't accustomed to requests for 2.5", but the BPI book does mention that. Only stands to reason that something that converts 3 to 2.75 would convert 2.75 to 2.5. I assume you're aware you can convert your MEC from 3 to 2.75 by removing the bolt from the main beam and sliding it up/down?

Steve

thank you very much for posts and pm!that is exactly the info i need. please keep it coming!!!

re: no real world cost savings - looking at used gear, $12.85/box rst shells, and $5.00/box reloads, the stuff is paid off in the first 2 flats of shells.

Marc

Most of my loads are a little bit lighter than RSTs too. 12g 7/8 oz I use the lightest published Alliant Red Dot load for a pair of Parker VH's that weight 7lbs 9 oz. Two 12s, I own 1 frame Parker & Birmingham Hammer Gun that weigh about 7 lbs go one powder bushing lighter than published with good results.

Load your own, you can tailor to the gun.

Boats

Actually I was not aware of that. So with my Sizemaster set to load 2 3/4" shells, I can move the beam up to load 3 inchers? I don't have use for those tho.

Marc, glad we could help.

Jolly

Bill - I shimmed the 10 ga short kt with wood to adjust it to 2 5/8 for the British hammer 10 -

the 12 does take that gauge down for 2 1/2

also- you only need the short kit if you fold crimp - since those are the only stations affected, no need if you roll crimp

No, Bill. It might not work that way. I wanted to do that with a progressive MEC and emailed MEC. They said that was not possible. This is post #430562.


Stan Online content
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Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 4266
Loc: somwers in Jawja
KYJon and Skip,

"Received a reply from Ron Freitag at MEC today. He says that none of the MEC progressives are able to be converted to 3" loading, with the exception of the 650n4103, which is a "special order".

Thanks for the suggestions. Still watching for a good used single stage.

SRH
_________________________
"Somehow, the sound of a shotgun tends to cheer one up" - Robert Ruark

I load 2 7/8 and 2 5/8 10ga shells all the time for my old SXS's with spacers on my 600jr. A couple years back, with too much time on my hands, 2" 12ga were reloaded. Enough spacers and a spacer soldiered on the punch in the final crimp station did the trick. I use the same short kit [ and homemade spacers when necessary] for both the 10 and 12.

If you factor in what your time is worth, reloading is way too expensive. But I like the custom factor, so I do it anyway.

Hi Marc,
I cut down the blue Rio hulls using a homemade trimmer from a piece of dowel rod an x-acto blade and a wood screw (search around the Internet and you'll find a pic; otherwise PM me and I'll take a pic of mine). The Rios seem to hold up well. I use 15 -16 grains of 700X, Cheditte or Winchester primer and either a BPI Piston Skeet Light or SRC wad and a 6 point crimp using a MEC 10ga Spindex crimp starter. This combo gives a height which doesn't require any spacers. The BPI wads are more expensive but I still load for about $5 a box which is less than half the cost of store bought 2 1/2" shells. I get by with a MEC 600 press but I deprime then size on a Super Sizer. If you're a competition shooter this is way too slow but if you only shoot a few boxes a week it's fast enough. I use a batch process.
Phil