Please try to sell me one.
I do own a 410 single but rarely use it for anything while I have a twelve gauge readily to hand.
They are expensive to feed factory ammo & I feel very limited to range by the shot sizes, however there is a double for sale nearby & I keep looking at it.

It is only a hundred bucks because it has a missing forend , both iron & wood. I can deal with that as I have another gun the same make but in 12 G that I can copy. Good little project.

I figure that I could load brass shells cheap enough but still don't know if I would really use it much unless I load slugs or buckshot. So why not just keep using the 30 30 for that type of up close work on pigs down in the creek ?
Something is tempting me to give this a go.
O.M

real men can hit anything with a 410.

That doesn't mean it is going to DIE from being hit with the .410. On wild pigs? Stick with the 30-30.
I've managed to avoid having a need for a .410, my whole life.
Good luck with whatever you decide.


Best,
Ted

I like .410’s and began shooting them when I was training my dog on pen-raised birds and using a 12 gauge became boring. The .410’s were effective enough on pen-raised birds that I began using a 36 gauge (.506” bore) muzzle loader on the birds. I found that .410’s with proper chokes and shot sizes are extremely effective for even the average shooter, like I was then back then, out to 25 yards.


The above is my favorite .410 which I had to sell several years ago do to some extreme economic hardship I was going through. I'd love to buy it back but still can't afford to.

Steve

I grew up shooting a .410 as that was the first shotgun my dad gave me many years ago. I will still grab a .410 from time to time as I think they are a neat little bush gun. As far as using it for birds, the wildlife where I am isn't that plentiful to worry about what shells cost. In fact, I bought another .410 double about 2 months ago.

+1, Ted.

I used the .410 for all my shooting needs for about a five year period to get past a nasty flinching problem. I had tired everything. Used middle finger as a trigger finger, pre mount gun, low gun, gas auto, different guns, hypnosis and learned how to shoot left handed. I'm would flinch one out of four shots somedays and nearly shot others. So I went to shooting a .410 for everything for three plus years. 200-500 rounds a week and gradually the flinch went away. Kept shooting the .410 for two extra years and graduated to a 28. After about a decade I can shoot anything from my mighty .410 up to a 10 ga. So sometimes a .410 can be used to fix a shooting problem.

Full disclosure. I could not hunt waterfowl with my mighty .410. I did shoot a few wild quail and more game farm birds. I shot a lot of clay targets. But the .410 is not a do all gun in my hands. Inside 25 yards I am quite good with it and can cleanly kill anything. 25-30-33 yards I can pick my shots. I do shoot a lot of dove with it and set known distance markers so when I say 33 yards I mean it and then only on calm days. Not an estimated 33 yards but a paced off distance. When you measure a 33 yard shot to the bird it becomes a 35-37 yard shot because you shoot up the long side of a triangle.

Most people think a 33 yards shot is 40 plus yards in part because we are lousy at judging distance and partly because they step it off to where the bird is retrieved. They forget to subtract the fall distance after the bird is hit.

I bought my 1st 410 last year at age 56. A Grulla sidelock. Great fun at the skeet range.

I personally don't think any gauge smaller than 20 with less than an 1oz of shot should be used on live game [well maybe squirrels].......if just out wasting time shooting targets...use what you want.......
but once again this is just my opinion...



if I was in a bad mood the above would of been written as...

nothing more ridiculous looking than a 300lb guy holding this 410 or 28ga toothpick and professing that its a magic wand....push away from the buffet table and go buy a real shotgun....or quit hunting....and use your putsy S toothpick only for targets...

once again....free country...do what you want

They're cute.

I don't use an ounce of shot in my 20s, and can report being quite successful on live game, up to and including pheasants. I hardly think 1 ounce of shot would be required for woodcock or ruffed grouse.
Having said that, I've never even used my 28 to hunt birds. Someday, I might. I'm still pretty sure I can avoid any need for a .410.

Best,
Ted

Hmmm.... Like Andy Devine shooting his .410-bore Parker at Grand Junction!!

I've never owned one, but have seen some horrible patterns that the .410 produces.
Maybe within a specific distance, the bore could be a reliable game getter.
A friend who is a state skeet and trap champion for many years brought his .410 to a dove shoot. He made it known to everyone that he would be shooting the bore to get his limit of dove. He didn't and was very frustrated.

Take an aspirin and let this pass. I'm surprised no one else has brought this up: never buy a double gun that is missing its forend iron. A bridge too far. And you cannot "copy" the 12 ga. version due to the huge difference in dimensions. Unless you are Dewey Vicknair.

I have a couple of tiny 410s,a Weston and a W Richards and they are a joy to carry on a long hunt. Bobby

You make the point, Researcher. The .410 is an expert's gun. Or a specialist's for a specific occasion, as above.

less lead to pick out of the meat.........

trouble is everybody and their cousin think they are an expert shot with a shotgun...and just because you can chunk and chip you way around the clay fields with your tiny gauge doesn't
mean you should be using it for hunting....

A single barrel .410 does not normally need a forend iron to function.

The 410 is just lots of fun. And it brings back memories. I still have my Stevens clip fed bolt action . It always fed the next cartridge , some of the time.

Hunt with a .410?
Who needs a steenkin' .410 SXS when a single-shot will do? Stock tattoo by Mark Larson after last season.

Certainly nothing wrong with a 28 gauge fired over a pointing dog at a bobwhite.

My opinion is that in that same situation a 410, used by the right gunner, would also be effective.

Really? Unless you're not concerned about the barrel coming loose from the receiver every time it's opened, I suppose you're right.
JR

In my little world, there is nothing more fun to shoot than a .410 . . . and if it's a .410 back-action hammergun it's all the mo' better.

I have a handful of single-shot's. Not all, including the one above, require a forend to hold the barrel to the action. The hinge pins must be removed to separate barrel from action. Gil

Stick to the .30-30 for pigs. A 1/5 oz low-velocity slug or about 3 buckshot pellets won't work as well.

If you want to wingshoot upland birds inside around 25 yds a .410 works fine.

I agree the .410 should not be stretched, but there is some quarry it is well suited for. You just need to be on your game.



John

There's a world of difference between a .410 and a 28 ga.

If you can't kill non-water fowl birds with a 28, you probably shouldn't be shooting.

That said, I was brought being told a .410 is a poor way to start a kid out shooting. It's not enough gun to instill confidence. I started with a 20 as a result and never regretted it. As an adult gun.....it's fine if you show restraint.

550 reloads per bag of shot in a 2.5 410. We are getting ripped off with scrap lead at .75/pound and dealers charging $40+/bag but you can fight back with a 410.

bill

This is my grandson at age 9 with a .410 double (Stoeger Uplander), cut down to give him a decent LOP. It didn't seem to hurt his confidence at all to take 9 doves fairly and on the wing with 1/2 oz. of shot, judging by the grin on his face. Come to think of it, he hasn't suffered from arrested development at all, and so far shows no tendencies toward a lack of self confidence. He also smoked the very first thing he ever shot at moving with that .410, a clay bird off a trap quartering away, at age 8. The .410's bad rep is blown way out of proportion by those who will not use it PROPERLY.



I have big fun taking a limit of doves with my .410s.







SRH

P.S. moses, it ain't a hog gun.

"The .410's bad rep is blown way out of proportion by those who will not use it PROPERLY."

I agree 100%. Beyond the light load's limitation of the small bore are the shooters limitation. We(I) just do a lousy job of judging distance and keeping shots restricted to close shots with a high percentage of success. I have shot more than a 150K .410 shells. I shot it exclusively for several years to work through a bad flinching problem. 200-500 rounds every week. Within 25 yards I am just as good with it as I am with a 12. Past 25 yards my kills go down and past 30 yards I rapidly drop off. I know my limitations. I try to get precise range marks or measure key points around any stationary hunting situations. But when working behind dogs or in moving hunts I just pass on a lot of shots that I would easily take with a larger gun. That's fine with me and I am sure most other here. A mans got to know his limitations.

I'm not saying a .410 will fail to instill confidence in EVERY shooter. Your grandson is obviously a prodigy. What I am saying is the line of thought, right or wrong, is that the gun has enough of its own shortcomings and that placing it in the hands of a beginner is doing the beginner no favors.

The 410 with proper chokes and loads is entirely adequate for game birds at skeet range and a little farther....don't try to make it do what a 28,20, or 16 will do at longer ranges.
DeHaan S2 with 30" IC&M barrels and Fiocchi 2.5" #8's @ 1200fps.
Mojo decoys bring doves well into skeet range making a good .410 a hoot to shoot.

I understand the premise, GregSY, not picking on you. I just think it is a faulty premise spewed forth by writers who wouldn't go to the trouble to learn to, or didn't have the discipline to, use it properly.

Now, these few who have strong opinions about it without ever having even owned one, well, I'll just say that I won't be quoting them.

All my best, SRH

You already did.


Best,
Ted

Funny request, "...sell me on the 410...".

To paraphrase a very famous shooting instructor, "You've lost all practicality when you drove past the KFC on the way out of town to hunt."

With the thoughts of that shooting scholar in mind, a more meaningful request is: "sell me on Original or Extra Crispy?"

Eat and shoot what makes you happy.

If anyone sells anything, they owe Dave $10.

Just bought my first .410 with plans to use it for an occasional quail hunt. Tried the little gun last week and it was frustrating at best. My success on pointed birds was 47%. The chokes are way too tight for 20 - 25 yard shots. Many birds shredded when hit. Looking at some barrel/choke work before I try it again on birds. Any suggestions from you quail hunters would be appreciated.

Dennis

???

SRH

I posted the following recently on the Upland Journal website http://www.uplandjournal.com/ under a thread titled “.410 Choke constrictions”. Here’s what I posted.

About eight years ago I was using .410’s mainly for pheasant hunting at an Illinois put & take hunting area. Experimenting with several .410 SXS’s I found shooting 7.5 shot through cyl/mod chokes to be very effective as long as I kept my shots under 30 yards. The other day, after I found my 16 needing repairs, I went quail hunting with a SXS .410 that I hadn’t yet opened the full chokes on. However, I knew from patterning it that at about 25 yards the pattern opened up just fine and I shot several quail with it.

Reading that entire thread, along with researching .410 work done by Chuck H and others on this board will answer any and all your questions. If you’re really interested in .410’s the British http://www.fourten.org.uk/ website also has good information.

BTW as for referring members to other websites, I’ve referred the readers at the Upland Journal website to the Doublegunshop website many times over. After all, we're here to learn from and help each other.

Steve

From the Department of Redundancy Department.
Dang Dennis! It just dawned on me, you're the fellow who I posted the above response to on the other board. Apparently, I need more coffee!

Dennis,
My favorite pointed quail 410 is Mod/Cyl. When I first bought it and found it was reamed to Cylinder on the right barrel, I was really disappointed. After shooting many birds with it from quail/dove, to pheasant, I'm really pleased to pull it out to hunt.

A few of my 410s...

"composed pair" of Ithaca Field grade 28" ejector guns (3 s/n apart)




Italian Ferlib 28"



Parker Reproduction 28" 28g/.410(Galazan)


Ithaca/Lefever Nitro Special 26" Custom


Mario Beschi/Ithaca Classic Doubles 28"

I love .410's.....easiest gun in the world (to sell)!!!

I thank you all for your input to what has become a very informative thread on the .410.

As John E, Gary W & KY John stated, the .410 is enough gun if used for what it is intended & within it's capabilities.
If I am down the creek with the 30 30 to shoot pigs & I see a Buffalo 200 yards out on the flats, am I going to shoot him ? The answer is no, of course. On the other hand if the buff was down the creek & on the end of my barrel I could empty all 7 into him thereby guaranteeing a kill. I learned this at 19 when hunting Buffs with a 12 G Greener double & buckshot. I near got killed myself.
So yes Samuel Hoggson I will not hunt pigs with the .410 single I have now while I have a 30 30, 308 & 54 flinter. I just thought heavy loads, quick second shot, bit of sport, ya know, but Nah ! you are correct.

Concerning gun purchases. Since when has need been a priority when desire overcomes. Fin2Feather says they are cute. Good enough for me.
Others said light to carry, even better.
I do not have one in a double, another justification.

The kid next door is ready for shotgun shooting at 15 but he is small framed & a twelve might knock him about too much. A .410 would be good to start him with & it might possibly lessen the chances of him developing a flinch as KY pointed out. This I would hope would carry over to shooting a twelve better at a bit latter on. Just like I started at 14 with a 22RF & then went to 303 & 25 06.

John Roberts, you do not know me or my capabilities or my trade skills yet you say a fore end iron & wood is a bridge too far. I said I can do it & I am equipped with the workshop machinery & metal work skills that makes many such pieces of what is very simple machine parts. Hardening & tempering & forging & welding are all included. I am not Dewey Vicknair & neither do I need be him to scale down the working principle of a 12 to .410 fore end & then make one.

All in all I think that I will go & buy this gun even if it is just for fun.
O.M

Fun is the best reason to buy any gun. For the wife is the second best.

Why do you mention a 12 instead of a .410? There are gauges between. A mild 20 or 28 would be best.

It might be for other reasons, who knows, but both my brother and I were started on 20 ga guns and neither of us has or has had any issue with recoil. In my estimation, we learned early on that guns recoil and that it's a physically insignificant event. I think that a mild gun would have not prepared us for what 'real' guns shoot like. That's my guess, I can't prove it.

Chuck H is a fine shot.

I watched him kill three wild Kansas roosters with a 410 one wintry day. The fields were covered in snow, the early season birds were sticking, and the dogs were pointing, and Chuck and his 410 were dialed in.

Chuck is a better shot than I. I wouldn't hunt wild roosters with a 410. But I know Chuck knows how to do it right and that he has the skill and the discipline to do it ethically.

Best,

Mike

I should have pictures of that event...but cant find them...ChuckH? dig yours out....That was quite a day...

GregSy, around here you get either 12g or .410 shotgun ammo.
The .410 is a very popular snake gun to have & use around the homesteads, out buildings & the fowl house. A plus on the .410 is that Mum is confident using it while Dad & the boys are not there. For this reason most of the locally stocked shells are #6 or at best #4.
While the 12g is a standard which most have come to accept as the only choice & unless a dedicated gun nut like us they might not even know about the 28, 20 or 16. The 10 is an outlaw. Any ammo or reloading components other than 12g is definitely a special order accompanied by wait & cost, so 12g it is.
O.M

-15F... Wishing he was in Hawaii
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Father Chuck blessing the hunt
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Joe Wood's personal shooting instructor and famous hunter, Brad Pitt.

I remember those pics well, but not all the names. Could you provide the names, Chuck, Mike, or Joe?

SRH

I won't try and sell you anything. When conditions are right I can kill the most fragile game bird in North America just as easily with a four-ten as with anything else. When conditions are not right it would be the poorest choice I could make.

On the other hand, the twelve gauge you mentioned is always the last gun I would choose for what I do. I own a total of one twelve gauge double gun and I only load it with 3/4 or 7/8 ounce loads. Ninety-nine days out of a hundred I would choose both a smaller and lighter gun for launching such miniscule payloads.

I could post pictures like these all day long just as a number of others could but suffice it to say that the combination of shooter, conditions, and quarry are often compatible with the little gun.

Well said, Skip.

SRH

I started my sons and daughters out with 28 and 20 ga guns. I find early success to be very important for new shooters. Miss too many in a row and you'll think this game is not for me. Too hard. But I had the advantage of multiple guns to work with and reloading got the 20 recoil down to light levels. My kids never complained about recoil. Having to pick up shells maybe. But if all I had for them was a .410 then that's what I would have used. It's better to shoot than not as a kid and I can temper expectation so kids don't quit. It's a game and we need to make it fun.

I did not learn how to flinch with a shotgun. My mistake was to shoot a .458 too much. I had sold some timber and planned on going to Africa to shoot Cape Buff and an Eliphant. Late 60's or early 70 elephants were not in such desperate shape from poaching. In those days I still had all my Model 70s and had a .375 H&H and a slightly used .458. The regs were that the .375 was too small for Elephants so I started shooting the .458. It was too much recoil too shoot too much but being young and dumb I kept trying. After the flinch started it just got worse until I had it like a stutter. Plans for Africa were scrapped. I stopped shooting for more than a year but the flinch was waiting when I returned. It took about 50k .410 shells for the flinch to go mostly away. Another 50k and it was gone. So the .410 to me saved my shooting.

Decades ago I developed a flinch shooting 7mm TCU out of a 10" barrel Thompson Contender in IHMSA competition. A buddy helped me lose it with less than 50K rounds. . Using a .22 barrel, he would load the gun out of my sight. Randomly, he wouldn't load it. I never knew if it was loaded or not when I shot practice rounds with Russ. When I tamed the flinch with the .22 we went to the competition rounds and repeated. The same procedure would work with a shotgun. Ever see a man with a shotgun flinch pull the trigger on an unexpected empty chamber? Gil

That would be Chuck H's brother-in-law Darrel.




That is me on the left, Last Dollar imitating Santy, and Chuck H on the right.




Front row, left to right: Chubby Daryl Halquist, SKB's apprentice, SKB, Chuck H's brother-in-law Darrel, and Chuck H.
Back row, left to right: Joe Wood, Mr. Studer, RockDoc, me, and Last Dollar.



Chuck H, Last Dollar, RockDoc posed with roosters taken by me and my dogs. I don't know the name of the fourth horse's ass.

Thanks, Mike.

SRH

I was shooting IHMSA competition probably about the same time, Gil. A doctor in Aiken, SC had a range where we competed once a month, Dr. Allen Kirschner. I, too, shot a T/C Contender, but in .30-30 Win.. Ed Bradley, from Savannah, used to be there every month. i really enjoyed it, for a time. But, I decided to get serious about it and practiced hard at home one month. The next month I shot a score that was two classes above my class and was disqualified. That was it for me. I never went back. It stuck in my craw that a man would be penalized for improving too much.

SRH

Stan you are very welcome.

A bunch of the "old guys" that shoot I informal skeet with in St. Louis use .410's, just for the fun of it. Some of their AA .410 hulls are adorned with scotch tape to cover the pin-holes for 1 or 2 more firings.

Another younger skeet shooting friend (he's only 71)has a four barrel Kreighoff set. He sometime uses the .410 barrels when we visit a game farm for dog training.

Personally, I don't feel the need for either a .410 or 28 gauge shotgun. I can miss with a 12.

gold40

Chuck H, Last Dollar, RockDoc posed with roosters taken by me and my dogs. I don't know the name of the fourth horse's ass.

Ahh Mike, you have such a way with words... I love your dry sense of humor, even when directed in the wrong direction (such as towards me!).

Steve

Hmmm, Mike, what is the limit on roosters ? You need a lawyer.

Stumbled on this thread, love my Dehaan custom .410

And so does Ruby!!!!

I only ever wanted to own half of a .410
These .410 barrels snap on a baby frame Model 21
I don't hunt often enough that I would ever bring a .410.
Skeet only for me. 30", .010 each tube

That would work just fine on a dove shoot, Bob. Beautiful little gun.

SRH

Good evening Stan.
Great to see pictures and read of you hunting with your grandsons.
My first and only grandson is just 8..............weeks old this past Saturday.
He's having great difficulties not only holding his head up but he's not swinging through birds and is constantly shooting behind them.
I'm thinking Dove opener 2025. Be here before you know it!

It will, indeed. My how time flies. Seems like yesterday Jackson smoked the first clay bird he ever shot at with a little .410 Stoeger Uplander. Heck, doesn't seem that long ago that I was totin' a J C Higgins .410 double myself, and worryin' the squirrels, rabbits, doves and quail. I was thinking yesterday of the possibility that in 15 years, at age 79, I could actually be getting my greatgrandson started wingshooting doves.

Oh! the years I have "wasted" in pursuit of that elusive little grey rocket.

SRH

2 1/2 inch reloads with 1/2 ounce of HARD #9s

Superposed with 410 Cordy barrels



Winchester Model 42

Skeetx, that appliance on the end of your Superposed .410 is undoubtedly the worst looking device I've ever seen on either end of a shotgun, lol. Makes a Poly Choke look downright nice. I'm overly sensitive to aesthetics on fine firearms, not one to allow for "if it works, doesn't matter what it looks like", but kudos on your prowess with it. Obviously works.

But dang, that thing is ugly.
JR