I was looking at a Baker Batavia Leader today that had a nominal asking price. The rib was marked Baker Gun co ,Batavia NY. The right side plate had Batavia Ny and the left was marked Batavia Leader. The serial # was 50333.
The Baker site is equivocal about that serial # range as to Folsom or Baker Gun and Forging co as the maker.
The gun is in very good condition and tight on face.
Somebody here has the information I know.
I'd appreciate any info about the maker.
The SN doesn't fit Daryl's Batavia Leader series, but he or Researcher should clear things up.
In the mean time
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17434920 1902 Sears catalog No. 112 introducing the Leader
1904 "Baker Gun Quarterly" courtesy of David Noreen
I was confused because the serial# is in the "non exclusive" number series of the Baker Gun and Forging co but the rib is marked "Baker Gun Co" which would make it Folsom gun.
Thanks Drew.
When Baker Gun & Forging sold their gun business to H.& D. Folsom in 1919, it was renamed Baker Gun Co. and the Batavia Leader was reintroduced as a steel barrel gun similar to the old Batavia Special. It should have a 'F' on the action flats following the SN, and 50333 would be at the very end of Folsom production.
Note both the Church and (Folsom) Broadway addresses 1928, and no one has seen a .410 Leader
1929 and the price was falling
During the period of 1915-1919, Baker Gun and Forging Co. was doing a lot of work on forged auto parts and much less work on guns. Baker "normally" had their different gun models in blocks of serial numbers for each gun model, but during this period they had many models in the same block of serial numbers, from roughly the high 30,000 range through 51,000 or so. In that range one could find single barrel trap guns, Leaders, Paragons, Black Beauty, and a couple of others. I might guess your Leader would have a cocking mechanism different than most Bakers. I might also guess your gun has steel barrels rather than the earlier twist barrels for the Leader. These Leaders were well finished, compared to the Folsom offerings.
The name "Baker Gun Company" can be found on the majority of models by Baker Gun and Forging Co. from the late 1890s through to the end in 1919. That term seems to be the preferred one for them. To the best of my knowledge the company was never incorporated.
Upper firing pin retaining screw position in a BG&F Batavia Leader
An early Folsom Baker Gun Co. Batavia Leader with the lower firing pin retaining screw position; interestingly with chain Damascus barrels.
And just to confuse us, there was a transition with no retaining screw
L grade Trap
But the Baker New Paragon Grade - Model Nineteen-Nine looks to have the screw or PIN??
Drew, those are good pictures.
Firstly, I have never seen a Folsom made gun with Damascus or twist barrels. Interesting [to me and about 5 guys in the world]
Secondly, your observance of the firing pin retaining screw is accurate. The interior edge of the sideplate retained the firing pin in the Model Nineteen Nine the L Trap Grade you show. All other L Trap Grades I have seen had the typical Baker Gun and Forging Co. firing pin retaining screw. The Batavia Leader in the 50,000 range that originated this post would also retain the firing pin with the inside of the lock plate. I would guess that it looks like this one from my group.
Sort of a Hi-Jack here I suppose. Recently I was shown an old 12 ga hammer double by a former co-worker & still friend. Turned out to be a "New Baker" made by Syracuse Forging & Gun Co, SN 2473. It carried two patent dates on the Watertable, June 1, 1880 & Oct 4, 1887. The first of these would appear to be #228,165 issued to W H Baker for the forend fastener (J Spring) & the second to A C Mcfarland for the Rebounding Locks (trigger plate action). 30" twist barrels & while I didn't weigh it I would guess a solid 8lbs or more. Not high condition but shootable with appropriate loads. Pretty weight forward & a lot of drop to the stock though. Fairly plain wood with checkering mostly worn smooth, but appears to have been originally a nice pattern, nothing real fancy. I do not know if these were offered in different grades or not but this one would have been a basic field grade if so.
2-piper, the New Baker you saw, if it was marked Syracuse Forging and Gun Company, Syracuse , was made before the factory fire in 1889. After the move of the company to Batavia in 1890 a few guns were marked Syracuse Forging and Gun Co., Batavia. The company name was soon changed to Baker Gun and Forging Co.
Catalogs and ads I have seen show the New Baker in one grade. But, I have seen a few with some engraving and receiver sculpturing and Damascus rather than twist barrels.
Thanks Daryl;
I wrote down the markings so would remember them all intending to start a post asking about this gun, then when this thread came up, just added it on. Markings were New Baker on left frame side. On right frame side was Syracuse Forging & Gun Co on one line & on another line below that Syracuse N Y. From your info looks like this one was built Before the Fire. Thus would appear to be after Oct 4 '87 but prior to mid 1889. Close enough.
I had the chance to examine the gun again today. There is no "F" after the serial number. It's a nice old 12 of whatever mfg. Choked pretty open from the looks of it.
Daryl;
thanks for the pics. Certainly a higher grade than the one my friend has. His would appear to be the basic grade gun.
