There's a new kid in town. The name is Dickinson. She is just a kid, a .410. She moved in on Monday, and today she was on a sunflower/dove field with me. She has 30" barrels, ejectors and is a real sweetie.





We had a great first afternoon together. I missed the first bird that came by, but decked the second, a long shot that ended with a very dead bird, not a cripple. I struggled for awhile with the new gun, then the birds stopped flying on my part of the field, then it all started in earnest.

We ended the day with a limit, handily. I killed a true double with her, my 11th and 12th birds. A right, then a left. That was encouraging. I saw two doves coming toward me and I thought "This is a two-fer". I killed the first with the right barrel, and as soon as I saw the first bird start to fall I swung on the second and killed it quartering away. Very satisfying for a new gun. Heck, for any gun.

We had maybe 12 people shooting this afternoon, and sat around for a long time while the thermometer climbed steadily. Finally, about 3:30 pm we went to the field and took stands. We quit about 5:30 to let the birds come in and feed undisturbed.


Good day. Here's the "pile" of birds.



I am so pleased with the Dickinson double. The two things I was most concerned about turned out to be non-issues, the trigger pulls and regulation. I patterned her this afternoon on the way to the dove shoot, on the side of an old dairy barn milking parlor on my place. The barrels printed 50/50, both right and left, and both were dead on center. The trigger pulls were the other concern, but that was worry for naught, too. I haven't measured them, but they are great. Absolutely a non-issue, probably about 3 1/2#. I put a leather lace-on pad on her this morning, to increase the LOP to suit me, but took it off for most of the pics so you could see the wood figure.



Very high quality for the price, guys. I am pretty discriminating about "new-made" doubles, but the Dickinson exceeds my expectations. The doves didn't care too much for it, tho'.

SRH

Well done, thank you for the report.
Mike

Thank you for the report. It looks to be a lot better made gun than my Fox model b 410

Stan
That's great!

About how much does it weigh?

Chuck,

The website says 5.5 lbs., but it doesn't specify if that is for 24, 26, 28, or 30 inch barrels. I will report back a bit later with the technical data on actual weight, choke dimensions, etc. But, for now, it's a keeper.

As an aside to the technical stuff, IMO the hardest thing about shooting a .410, for game, is limiting my range. I am so used to killing long doves with 7/8 and 1 oz. of shot with my 20s and light 12s that I just have to remind myself constantly to stay under 35 yards with the little guns. Most of my misses today, and any day I'm "doving" with a .410, is when I try those longer birds. I could shoot a pretty good average on the dove field with it if I could just use more self-restraint.

SRH

Glad you like it, Stan. Maybe we can shoot together soon.

Stan
Sounds like it's a keeper. They look nicer than the SKB Turks.

Let me know when you head to AZ. I'd like to hook up for a hunt if you're interested.

Glad you like it so much Stan....great guns with great quality IMO.....

Thanks for the phone call, see you this winter....

Best,

Stan, do I remember correctly that you are coming to the Fall Southern? If so, bring "er" along and we will measure the whole shootin' match of handling dimensions.

Very good report and fine photos. Thanks.

DDA

I am amiss if I do not give Tom Bryant, who posted above, due thanks for the indispensable part he played in my getting this Dickinson. He is the gun library manager at the Cabela's in Sidney, NE ............... as many of you may already know. We talked several times about the possibility of having one ordered with the long barrels, since I knew the Dickinson website showed that as an option. He would return my calls in a timely manner every time, and emails were great help I think, too, in pinning down the details. It was one of my better long distance gun buying experiences.

Thanks again, Tom. Truth is tho', without PA24s prior experience with these guns, and his high praise of them I may never have "bit". When Doug tells you something, you can engrave it in stone.

Don, I do plan to be there all weekend at the Fall Southern and will certainly have it along to shoot in the .410 "hammerless" event. I was actually thinking about us spinning it yesterday evening. Thanks for the offer.

Usually I don't shoot the .410s much after Labor day on doves, preferring to go to a 20. This year is going to be different, I think.

SRH

Chuck, I will certainly do that. Give that new Ferlib a wringing out in the meantime and maybe we can get them together for a hunt.

I forgot to mention, earlier, something I noticed on the Dickinson that really impressed me, and that is the fit of the ejectors. When they are lying flat down against the breech face you can hardly see the line where they meet each other. If you did not look closely you would mistake it for an extractor gun. They worked with authority, too, yesterday. Gun is still tight to open and close, but it will loosen up some as I get her broken in.

SRH

Tom Bryant's a great guy. Given all the stores Cabela's now have, they need about 100 more like him!

Good to hear the Turks are doing a better job on triggers. That's been my main complaint on most of the Turkish guns I've played with.

Stan, I have a 16 ga. Dickinson and couldn't be more pleased with the quality and how it shoots. I asked the manager of the Cabelas in Owatonna, MN last summer if any customers are having issues with their Dickinsons and he said "None, and if I had a dozen 28 ga. guns they'd be gone in no time." 28's are the hot seller in that store. The 16 I have is a bit weight-forward and it eats clay targets better than my "target SxS" which suddenly had no purpose. Like yours, my barrel regulation was perfect horizontally and 60/40 vertically.

Stan, is that an oil or a no-gloss poly finish? Like it better than the thin hard gloss that came on my Dickinson 16 ga.

Jay

Charlie, I wasn't crazy about the finish on mine, so I had it refinished in a satin with some grain enhancement. My triggers were very crisp, but a bit heavy. Kody Kearcher lightened them and now they are crisp and delightful.

That looks like a 410 frame on that Dickinson. And, if I'm not mistaken, looking at the pics of these Dickinson's they all look like that have gauge specific frames.

Stan, watching you post about shooting dove limits with a .410 shotgun is an eye opener to me. As for me doing it myself, I am embroiled in a depressing global class shooting slump this year so I don't expect to be buying another Dickinson. I'm still trying to get around to finding someone to lighten up the trigger pulls on the 12ga I bought sight unseen a couple years ago...Geo

It looks to be an oil finish, but the pores are not all filled. I will probably take on the project Dave did. It looks great, Dave. You did a fine job, IMO.

I do think it is a true .410 receiver. I've got to give it a good cleaning this afternoon and I will measure the receiver. I do know that when I look at the underside of the receiver the thing that strikes me is how tiny it looks.

George, I understand your reluctance to the lil' gun on game, but the key is distance. A .410 kills the same way any other gauge kills .......... by density. The velocity of the shot is the same, the weight of the individual shot pellets are the same, and if you close in your maximum distances to shoot, the density can be the same. Given that, what could the difference be? Sufficient density in the pattern with a .410 just means doing the deed at closer range than bigger gauge guns. A dove centered at 25 yards with it is just as dead as a dove centered with a bigger payload.

SRH

Down at my club, Deep River, they have the same gun as this in the SKB. Wood seems to be same maybe a tad better.
Stan, you have answered my one concern about patterns especially with a gun in this price range.
My understanding is the 410 is made on the 28 gauge frame.
Anyway with the rounded receiver and the English stock it looks pretty "Racey".
Dave, you enhanced your Dickinson extremly and picture looks awsome. You mention "grain enhancement", you mean like waht Mark Larson does?
I have the fever now for a 410 and went to the Dickson website. Not sure if the English or Prince of Wales to choose from.
Anybody here have a Dickson with a POW? Maybe post a picture?

Thanks, Stan.

Yes, Mike, Mark Larson did the work. The gun was extremely high-combed and I sand-fitted it for drop and cast before sending it to Mark. I couldn't be more pleased with this shotgun.

It's hard to imagine a 28 on this frame, but I guess it's possible. Here are the measured dims. Sorry for the fractions but I couldn't put my hands on my dial caliper.

Across the flats 1 5/16"
Across breech balls 1 3/4"
Between f. pins 7/8" CTC


Interesting note, the fore end lug is one piece 4 3/16" long. Should be very strong.

SRH

You are correct Stan. PALUNC and others are wrong.

Dickinson DOES NOT use THE SAME FRAME for multiple gauges, they do not double up like CZ/Huglu and others.....

The Dickinson is a trigger plate action and easy to work on with excellent internal quality parts, many stainless and all are either polished or stone tumbled and deburred. Internal adjustments are easy.

Look at the internals of a CZ/Huglu and then look at the internals of a Dickinson....they are worlds apart in quality.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=313064&page=1 (Pictures of internal parts after removal)

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=313064&page=3 (Internal factory diagrams}

Best Regards,

Hmmmm . . . it was reported on another forum that the .410 and 28-ga. Dickinson frames both measure 1.34" across the hinge pin.

Guns of different gauges with frames of same width and depth can be described as "gauge specific" based on differences in size of fences and distance between firing pins.

Jay

So, does anyone have a 28 they could measure for us?

SRH

Glad you like the gun Stan. i was planning on using mine for yesterday's opening day shoot but I chickened out at the last minute and took my 12 instead. I'm gonna use it on the next shoot though.

Mike,
Here is a Dickinson sidelock with POW grip.... I'm not a huge fan of the looks of their POW grip
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100514438

Adam

I just sent an email to the Dickinson importer in Moorpark CA. They're located about 40-50 miles from me. I asked to visit their facility to view and discuss their guns.

Chuck,

Please check p.m.s

Thanks, SRH

P.S. I got a message saying that your are over your private message limit. Can you p.m. me an email that I can use to reach you?

That's inspired me to take out my little AyA .410 this year for wood pigeons. Just a little larger than your doves but there will be collared doves mixed in. Out of interest; what shot size/load and cartridges do you find most effective in your .410? Lagopus.....

I've found the 7 1/2 shot size (American) to be most effective on quail and dove. That said, the collared dove are half again larger than a morning dove or whitewing. I've found that the 3" #6 (American) shot size out of a full choke can really reach out and swat a collared dove at extreme altitudes.

Stan,
I cleaned out my PMs and sent you one.

I agree with Chuck about shot sizes on doves, although I have had good success on early season mourning doves with #8s.

SRH

Chuck, if you're able to visit the Dickinson importer, I'd be real interested in hearing what you learn about them and the guns.

Jay

Stan do the barrels touch at muzzles? What about anyone owning a 28 gauge do barrels touch at muzzles? Bobby

Bobby, my Dickinson .410 with 28" barrels do not touch at the muzzle, but the 28-ga. Dickinsons with 28" barrels do. You can see that for yourself by clicking on this link: http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100583938

I got in late tonight, Bobby. I'll look at it tomorrow and see. I looked at the muzzles to see how much meat was in them, in case I want to put screw in chokes in them, but don't remember noticing whether or not they touched.

SRH

The reply I received from Dickinson indicated they have no showroom and advised I visit Pacific Sporting Arms.

This is just an update. I posted on another thread yesterday that I was going to really test the little Dickinson today on late season doves. I've never shot big, old tough late-season doves with a .410, but the confidence I gained with the Dickinson in the mid-season gave me some bravado.

We really had a good shoot today for the late season, in one of my bigger peanut fields. We didn't have nearly enough guns to keep them flying. I think we had about 12-13 people to show up to shoot a 96 acre field. They were alighting between guns, but, all in all a good shoot.

I started out poorly, having shot the big 32" BE Fox the last few times I've been out, I guess my muscle memory was expecting it. I only killed one out of the first eight shells, then the old groove returned and the little Dickinson went to work as it should. I killed the next fourteen with 29 shells. So, the limit of 15 was achieved with 37 shells. Now, I know that is not shooting to brag about under most conditions, but we did have a 20-25 mph north wind this afternoon, and that makes big mature doves pretty sporty, especially for a .410.

I think this gun is going to get more and more use on birds for me in the years to come, God willing. It is just so much more fun than the big guns. No wounded and lost birds, either. Used 11/16 Oz. 7 1/2s, RIOs.

Until next shoot, SRH

Stan with the way the wind was blowing today that was great shooting with the 410 or any gauge for that matter! Bobby

Stan if you went 25X25 you call it skeet and soon get bored with it. And 15X37 sounds like it was a heck of a lot of fun. I know about your problem getting enough people to shoot late season fields. I tried to get a group to hunt a large field opening day of our late season. Ended up with no one willing to shoot other than my son.

Going to shoot next to a sod farm tomorrow. It will all be pass shooting doves as they trade back and forth over a hedge row. Find the right spot along the hedge row and it can be a lot of fast action shooting. Long shots with little warning or in your face shots with no warning. Best thing is that finding the birds is a snap over well cut grass fields. Being a more modest shot I am forced to take my 28.

i would have been very disappointed if I had shot my 20, or my 12, like that, Bobby. Funny thing is, it just doesn't bother me as much with the little gun. I killed two sets of true doubles with it today, after I got in the groove, a right then a left. Now that is really satisfying with the little gun.

For shooting like you describe the 28 will be much better, I think Jon. Good luck tomorrow. We will probably shoot this peanut field again two weeks from today, if enough birds are still there. Plenty enough time for you and Bobby to plan to be here with me and help us out on this big field.

SRH

I sure wanted to be there, Stan. Appreciate the invite tho, just too much time and distance. That is just downright strong shooting with the 67 ga.
JR

Thanks, John. I missed you being there. You woulda' really had a ball. Lots of doves for a late season shoot. There were doves flying from 12:45 until I locked the cable and left at 5:00.

I'm gonna get better with it. I'm determined. I have the makings for a big steel patterning plate to put up soon down at the pond where ya'll stayed. Once it's up I intend to get serious about finding the best patterning loads for it. For now the RIOs are working okay. I can't blame my misses today on the shells.

SRH

Stan, If I shot that good I would take out a half page ad in the newspaper to make sure everyone knew. Sounds like a fine little gun, btw. Gil

I've been shooting a 12 gauge Dickinson SxS for the past 1-1/2 years and been very pleased with it. Mostly Sporting Clays and pheasant, and a bit of skeet.

I did break one trigger spring, and it was promptly repaired on warranty at no cost. Other than that, zero problems.

I lost one choke tube, and haven't yet found a replacement source. Perhaps as the Dickinson's become more popular, someone will make aftermarket tubes.

JERRY

I just returned from a small dove shoot we had this afternoon in a corn field the cows have broken down. Just eight of us, the usual suspects. Pretty good shoot though I was on the edge of the best flight.

Managed a limit barely with a 20ga and a little over a box of shells. However I had the valuable help of my yellow lab Stella who seemed to think my shooting was too poor and took up with other shooters having more luck than I. She brought all the doves she picked up to me. I had some 400 yard retrieves today...Geo

Stan, I 've been looking at the Dickinsons as well in a 410.
What can you say about what was the furthest distance you killed one with that gun?
My dove field is seeing some doves as well. Cut last September and the farmer left lots of corn on the ground.
Two weeks ago I bet I saw at least 200 to 300 doves flying in the field. Plus a big flock of pigeons from the dairy farm across the road.
I set out my decoys and had some come to the decoys.
Shooting my 32" P Gun with an 1 1/8 ounce of 7 1/2 I managed a dozen plus a couple of pigeons.

A limit in the late season is a thing to be remembered, even if with the assistance of a "convivial" retriever.

All my best, SRH

Mike,

I don't want to mislead about the little guns. With 11/16 oz. loads I really believe they should be restricted to 35 yards or less. And that 35 yards is the equivalent of a 60 yard shot with a 12 ga., IMO. I have said this before about shooting the .410 on doves ....... the hardest part of it is making yourself stick with those limits. KY Jon uses markers to help himself do this. I admire him for that. I probably should train myself to do the same.

One thing important to this discussion, too, is what presentation the shot is offering you on the bird. A straight incoming bird can be killed dead as a hammer much further than can a straight going away, because all the vitals and both wing bones are looking at you. One shot I attempted yesterday was a going away at no more than 25 yards .......... when my brain said shoot. By the time the reaction time, lock time and flight time of the shot "screwed it all up", the dove was probably 30 yds.+. I knocked a hatful of feathers out of him and he flew on, maybe to die somewhere later. I hope not. I shouldn't have taken that shot, and I will remember that.

Most of the "expertise" of using a .410 on game isn't how well you shoot it, it's how well you restrain yourself from shooting it, IMO. Everyone has to learn the limits of range with a shotgun. The .410's is just closer than the others.

SRH

Words for the ages and (all) gauges.

Using markers to help with distance . . . reminds me of the British Army getting ready to face off against the Zulu hordes!

Or Andrew Jackson at the Battle of New Orleans .................. "wait until you see the whites of their eyes".

I recently had a conversation with a friend who, while in school at UGA in Athens, hunted quail around the countryside there. He once had the opportunity to go with a local legend, Mr. Willie. They hunted 2-3 hours that morning, then went by a country store for a hot coffee and late breakfast. He commented that Mr. Willie was far and away the finest shot on quail he had ever seen, and asked how it was that he seemed to almost never miss. He said Mr. Willie got quiet and looked long at the old woodburning stove before answering, then said, "I don't really know, never thought about it. All I know is that when I see an eye, I pull the trigger". They call that "hard focus" now, but it's nothing new.


SRH

Stan I learned how hard going away birds are to kill when shooting geese. A bird incoming or even side shot was a fairly simple shot to achieve a clean kill. But if the bird was quartering away or worse a straight away shot they became almost bullet proof. Part is the heavier feathers you have to penetrate, part is the armor plate of bone that protects the back and the fact that all the vitals are on the far end of the bird. The brain and neck are behind the bird. You could bring down a goose easier by breaking its wing than getting a fatal hit. But my golden hated wounded geese and would grow at me when I shot at them. I thought she was growing at the geese but suspect her critisim was for me. Birds are birds so what's true for one is true for another just scaled to size.

Stan, the best turkey hunter I know won't shoot a gobbler unless he sees a well defined eyeball. Gil

So true, Jon. I found that out decades ago, and it holds true on every bird I've ever hunted. IMO, quail seem to be one of the easier birds to put down going away. Don't know why. Doves are not, they're unexplainably tough to kill dead going way. Range is everything. Many people shoot at doves too far, going away.

SRH

Pheasants can seem almost armor plated when hit going away. There's a lot of bone and feathers to penetrate to reach anything vital if you don't hit the head. There's also a gizzard in the way. I agree that quail aren't that hard to kill going away, although I think most people who've hunted both bobs and scalies would say that the latter seem to take more killing. Not sure why. Maybe the average distance at which they're shot is longer.