This is something you don't run across very often. I just picked up my first ever small bore hammergun in 16 gauge.
A T. Wild of Birmingham 2.5 inch nitro proved 16 gauge SXS. 28 inch barrels with straight grip. It weighs about 5lbs and has double trigers.
The length of pull is only about 13.5 inchesIt does not fit me very well so I need to decide what to do with it but it was too cool to pass up.
I'd like to know what the English proof marks mean and try to narrow down the year it was made. Anybody know anything about T. Wild? I tried to do a lookup here but Wild is not a very good search word.
I could do with information on this maker too. Anyone ever seen a trade label?
I have a BLNE with like new colour by this maker thats seen very little use which needs restocking to do.
T. Wild is a well recorded Birmingham maker. One of the guys will be along with the internet gun club info shortly, I'm sure.
DDA
I Found some information. This looks it might be one of their lower offerings at about 7-9 British Pounds when made prior to the Great War.
Still a cool gun.
For starters:
Thomas Wild Gunmaker
Birmingham England
Well regarded maker
Established 1857,through the years listed at various addresses in Birmingham. Boothroyd gives a Price Street address circa 1989.
See these links for some more info;
Dogs & Doubles article Roland Watson site your friendly google search
Again I will wait for someone with access to Internet gun club data to cut and paste it in. Thomas Wild was a very prolific maker of guns of all grades. Your gun is post 1925 nitro proof and looks in good condition. The little bit of information that may date the actual year it went through the Proof House is not clear in the photo. If you look at the picture of the barrel flats that you posted there is a small mark in the upper left of the picture. This is the crossed sceptre mark and should have one or two letters in the cross. If you can read these and post it I can give you the date. The serial number looks like 19797, if this is so then it dates to 1938/9.
Don't worry about the length of stock as you can either have it lengthened or use a slip on pad. Use and enjoy but note the 2 1/2" chambers and use the correct ammo. Lagopus.....
These old eyes can't make out the letters, sorry. Not even with a magnifying glass.
Also, I've got a veritable lifetime supply of Gamebore and RST 2.5 inch shells. I even have a full case of roll crimped black powder 2.5 inch 16's which are a lot of fun to shoot but not so much fun to clean up after.
Cheers for that lagopus mine is similar to the one pictured but just a non ejector and the case colours are a bit fresher.
Just started heading up the stock today along with three others i am doing!
Got a nice canvas case i am restoring for it as well.
These old eyes can't make out the letters, sorry. Not even with a magnifying glass.
Also, I've got a veritable lifetime supply of Gamebore and RST 2.5 inch shells. I even have a full case of roll crimped black powder 2.5 inch 16's which are a lot of fun to shoot but not so much fun to clean up after.
If you do decide to shoot the BP, make sure you get all of the petroleum based oils and lubricants out of the barrel. I just learned that lesson the hard way and am still scrubbing fouling out.
For BP, hot, soapy water works well and equal parts Murphy's oil soap, rubbing alcohol and hydrogen peroxide works even better. Usually I can clean the shotgun after BP shooting in about 15 minutes.
http://www.shotguns.se/html/uk.htmlHere's a link to a page with the date codes (bottom of page)
The gun looks really nice. Seen a few in 12 and they seem to be good solid guns.
Good, you're o.k. for ammo then.
The little box lock pictured is a 20 bore ejector. I took a picture as I would have bought it but just didn't have the ready cash at the time.
I've had four hammer 12's in my time but sold them on. One was nice 32 inch barrels live pigeon trap gun. A friend once owned a nice side lock ejector. I wonder if they colour hardened their own guns as all the Wild's I have seen have had a particular dark plum colour not usually as deep on other guns from Birmingham. Lagopus.....
Thomas Edwin Wild was born in Leicester in 1825. Where he was apprenticed is not known but he was recorded in 1849, probably as an outworking stock maker at Court, 17 Steelhouse Lane. At the time he was living as a lodger with Richard Johnson, a cordwainer (boot and shoe maker), at 42 Whittall Street.
Almost certainly, he did work for Benjamin Watson, and at some time between 1851 and 1857 he married Benjamin Watson's daughter and then moved to 29 Whittall Street. The firm later claimed establishment in 1857.
It has been widely reported that in 1857 Benjamin handed the business over to Thomas Wild, and these reports imply that he ceased to trade, but this is not correct. At about the time of the marriage of his daughter, Benjamin (aged 52) appears to have decided to concentrate on being a "percussioner" to the trade and, in order not to upset his trade customers, he left Thomas to run the retail side of the business under the Wild name. In the 1861 census Benjamin was recorded as a gun percussioner living at 14 Steelhouse Lane with his wife, Sarah, who was recorded as a burnisher. From 1861 to 1864 Benjamin Watson (III) was also shown in the street directories as trading at 73 Moland Street. At this time the firm was probably exporting arms to the USA for use in the civil war. The Moland Street premises had become his principal place of business, but he still lived and worked at 14 Steelhouse Lane. At the time of the 1861 census Thomas Wild and Sarah were living above the shop at 29 Whittall Street.
The 1861 census records the Isaac Watson of Summer Lane (brother of Benjamin noted in the 1841 census) as a gun percussioner aged 38 living at 23 Lower Loveday Street with his wife, Elizabeth (a provision dealer), Isaac (b.1856), Rowland (b.1857), plus three daughters and another son.
Benjamin (III) died in 1870 aged 65. Between 1864 and 1870 it seems that Thomas Wild took over his business and the premises at 35 Moland Street. These premises did not become his principal address, the principal address remained at 29 Whittall Street until 1883/6.
The 1861 census showed Benjamin (IV), aged 29 and a gun maker, living at 37 Bagot Street as a lodger, with his wife, Eliza (a warehousewoman born 1837), and their son Benjamin (V) (b.1857). It is believed they married in 1857. The 1871 census recorded Benjamin (IV) as a gun percussioner living at 37 Bagot Street with his wife, Eliza, and Benjamin (V) who by then was an iron caster aged 14.
In the 1871 census Thomas Wild and Sarah were still living at 29 Whittall Street (no children were recorded), but between 1883 and 1886 the firm's principal place of business changed to 35 Whittall Street which, probably between 1886 and 1894 (just after Thomas Wild died) was named Victoria Gun Works where they also traded as "The Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Company". The company claimed a head office at 143 Queen Victoria Street, London, and "at Liege".
At the time that he died Thomas Wild was living in Aston. No other census entries for the Wild family have been found, but there may have been a son. A Benjamin Wild worked for BSA then for Midland Gun Co, but in the 1930s he established his own business, Benjamin Wild & Co which is trading today. There were a number of people named Wild in Birmingham at the time, so whether he was related to Thomas Wild or not is not known.
The 1891 census recorded Benjamin (IV), as a gun maker aged 59, and Eliza living at 2 Court, 2 Park Road, Aston Manor, but in 1893 a firm by the name of Rowland Watson was recorded at 17 Whittall Street, as was Thomas Wild & Co. It would appear that Benjamin (IV) retired in 1893 (he died in 1896) and that Rowland Watson (I) took over from him. There are reports that Rowland Watson was the son of Benjamin Watson (III), and was Thomas's nephew but, as mentioned above, he was in fact the son of Isaac Watson of 23 Lower Loveday Street and was therefore Sarah's cousin. Rowland Watson's trade label at this time claimed establishment in 1857 which was the date Thomas Wild started his business, but the trade label used from about 1900 stated the date of establishment of the original Benjamin Watson in 1723.
In the 1901 census, Rowland Watson was recorded as a gun maker aged 44 (b.1857) at 17 Whittall Street living with his wife, Catherine, and their son, Gilbert aged 19. He was recorded not as an employer but as a worker, working from home, and Gilbert's occupation was recorded as gunmaker's assistant, presumably to his father. The firm of Thomas Wild appears to have been operating from 19 Whittall Street, although from about 1901 Rowland Watson's address was also given as 17 Whittall Street.
In 1933 the firms of Rowland Watson and Thomas Wild (& Co) occupied 17 and 18 Whittall Street.
In 1941 Rowland Watson (I) died and his brother Gilbert Watson took over. Gilbert appears to have retired or died in 1951 and his son, Roland H G Watson (Roland (II)) born on 19 May 1910, took over. He was a Guardian of the Birmingham Proof House. The firm remained at 17 and 18 Whittall Street until 1962 when they moved to 32 Lower Loveday Street.
Roland H G Watson retired from the management of both firms in 1987 and also as a Proof House Guardian. He died in 1988 in Solihull, and Barry A King, who had started work with the firm in 1951, bought the business. Barry King started as an errand boy, became a warehouseman, and eventually specialised as a stocker. The firm stocked guns for many Birmingham gunmakers such as Holloway & Naughton, Skimmin & Wood, Midland Gun Co, G E Lewis, William Ford and others.
Guns produced by the firms were marked Watson or Wild, but the same numbering sequence was used for all guns. Obviously, most Watson guns made for the trade were engraved with the name of the retailer rather than with the names of Watson or Wild. The early records of the firms seem to have been lost, but Internet Gun Club has copies of records for 1894 and from 1898 to 1966. The original records are held by Joe Wheater, a retired gunshop owner and the famous clay shooter who represented Great Britain in many international competitions and the Olympic Games in the 1950s and 60s. Barry King retired in 2006. Benjamin Wild & Co occupy premises at Unit FF1, 63 Price Street, Birmingham B4 6JZ, but Colin Wild, the proprietor, has no records or detailed knowledge of his family history.
Other Info
The firm is known to have sold Remington New Club cartridges, they must have sold others as well.
Thanks for all of that information!
The barrels on mine say "T Wild 17 & 18 Whittall Street Birmingham".
