I bought a J. P. Sauer 16 gauge sidelock hammergun from a man in NH. It arrived at the dealers today. It is beautiful. English stock, splinter forend. Great wood, double triggers 28.?" barrels IC/ IM chokes. It is super slim, weighs 5 1/2 pounds. The barrels are Krupp steel and ring like crystal. There are no dents. Action is on face, and very tight.
The dealer did a terrible packing job. The gun was in an old vinyl case. The case was in a 6" X 6" single layer cardboard box. There was one piece of bubble wrap around the case. There was at least 3 " of space around the bubble wrap inside the box for the case to slam around in. Then He shipped it UPS. The stock is cracked completely through at the wrist. this gun is everything I hoped for, The checkering is still nice and sharp and the engraving on the locks is very nice. My dealer is livid. He said this should have been the best gun in his shop, but it is ruined now. I know there are guys here that can repair anything. There are no pieces missing or splintered out. The stock is just broken. The crack runs through the checkering and looks like it should be invisible when glued or however it can be repaired. I am in the office now, and can't post any pictures till I get home. Any ideas what a repair like this will cost? I have to make up my mind what to do by Monday. If this is a reasonable repair, I will go for it. I was planning on re-coloring the receiver and locks anyway. This old girl deserves to be used again. HELP ME PLEASE.

Bill

Bummer Bill:
How far are you from Craig Libhart?
Susquehanna Stockworks
Bainbridge, PA (717) 367-3414
http://susquehannastockworks.com/about.htm

You might send a pic to one of these repair experts (and David's and Bob's amazing 'cures' are on the PictureTrail):

David Trevallion Maine dtrevallion@maine.rr.com

Robert Fulton
307-436-5561
stocks@highstream.net
Glenrock, WY

Dennis Smith
The Stock Doctor
Tygh Valley, OR 97063-9797
(541) 483-2182
thestockdr@riflemag.com

Thanks Revdocdrew,
I know about these men from reading this site. This break is nice and clean, not any where near the disasters on the picture trail. The problem is I have to to have some idea of price by Monday. I was hoping someone here had this type of repair done before and could give me some idea of the cost. If the seller will split the cost with me I will proceed. If not, the gun will go back as much as I would love to keep it. I am probably going to have a hard time getting a refund. The shipper should be responible, and I have never heard of anyone having any luck with UPS, if the shipper even insured the gun.

Bill

Was the gun shipped whole? (not taken apart). This is a major cause of broken stocks, in my experience. Even with a good packaging job, inertia (when they throw the box into the UPS truck and it hits the wall) can cause a broken stock. All guns should be shipped barrels-off the action, if possible. Your shipper is at fault if he did not take the gun down before shipping.

Dennis Smith can fix the stock among others as noted. It will probably cost at least $500.

One other note; re-case coloring a nice old gun is not without risk either.

Good luck,

C. Kofoed

Call Dennis and discuss the break with him in as much detail as possible. He can and usually will give you a cost range for the repair, subject to inspection. If the packaging was as bad as you have described, the seller should bear some responsibility, and I would hold his feet to the fire, especailly if a "professional" dealer.

Replacement,
The seller paid a professional dealer to handle the transfer. The dealer shipped the package. My dealer called him, and he said he had been especially careful with this gun. He also said he did not notice any damage when he packaged the gun. As far as i am concerned the dealer that shipped the item should be held accountable. I have never seen packaging as bad as this. I wouldn't ship a ball bat in packsging this poor.

Bill

Who was the dealer he paid to "handle the transfer"? Once agian UPS destroys its package,guess you should feel lucky it showed up at all,a dealer is brought in for no reason and the end result is a disaster.Why in the world did he not take the gun down,as suggested by CKofoed package it correctly and go to the USPS for a registered mail like he should have?Bloody shame

If you ship any gun by UPS, use NOTHING but overnight delivery and insure the gun for full value.

Take pictures of it before you ship it too.

RGS:

I just had one repaired by Dave VanDenbrand (sp?), nice clean break right behind safety. His phone number is 616-399-6767. I want to say it was about $450 to $500. You can not see repair except for tiny lines at bottom of safety.

Other fellows are:
Toby Leeds - 920-921-9199 (not sure if he does stock repairs - he makes them.)

Mike Orlen - 413-256-1630

J. David Yale - 970-562-4225

JJ Perodeau (sp?) 580-237-7388

For what it's worth my understanding is that even a well repaired brokenwrist greatly reduces the value of a gun. Ohter's maybe able to give a ballpark of how much.

If I do decide to fix this stock, the gun will be a keeper. I really don't care about resale value, I just don't want to tie up a ton of cash in it. I'm sure I will never collect a dime from UPS, and I don't even know if the dealer bought any insurance. I'm sure the seller will not refund my money, he will tell me to collect from the dealer or UPS. A loser all the way around.

Bill

I'm no lawyer, but...

Seems that the shipping dealer was acting as an agent of the seller, thus you should have recourse against both the seller and the shipping dealer, as well as UPS through their insurance (if purchased). Take lots of pics of the gun and the packaging as it arrived at your location. If it arrived today, take the pics today. If it's a digital camera, make sure the calendar and clock are set for today, and display a time stamp in the pics. Save all of the packaging.

Here are some pictures of the broken stock.

RGS:

That break looks like you took a picture of the one I had and posted it. Dave fixed it for about $500 and I had a middle man, because I sent it back to the dealer I bought the gun from. I am sure he had some type of mark up on work. I want to say it took about 6-8 weeks to get it back. The guy does great work - you really can't see repair.

If you really love the gun and are going to keep it the wrist will probably be stronger after the repair. The modern epoxies are stronger than the wood fibers, and they will probably put some type of rod in the wrist. I have probably gone through a case of shells since I got mine back with no ill effect.

Best of Luck, Chicago (Mike)

Chicago, Thanks for the news. I spoke with Craig at Susquehanna Stockworks this afternoon. He is only 3 1/2 hours from me. Once he gives me his opinion after looking at the pics, I told him I would drive the stock to him to examine. I will never deal with a lawyer again, so I imagine I will be stuck with this gun as is.

Bill

RGS,

If you find you need a second opinion I would recommend Toby Leeds without reservation. He is a friend and incredible stockmaker and gunsmith. He does do repairs as two of my guns have been to him for similiar work.

Be aware that if you needed this gun bent for fit you will not be able to do so now.

RGS:

Best of luck and I have also heard great things about Toby. I am no expert, but that repair looks pretty straight forward, and I am sure your fellow will do a nice job.

Too bad about recourse. I would at least take pictures (dated) and paper UPS to death on it. Can't hurt and shipper will know if insured. For that matter if you take packaging to local UPS vendor they may be able to scan and tell you if insured.

Utah: Good thought on bending stock, and I thought I read some thread about a repair where the fellow made sure the gun still had at least a 1/2" of bend after repair. My recollection is the work was done on a Boss. It was not clear to me if that meant you could bend stock after repair.

RGS:

Not to beat a dead horse but it has really offended my sensibilites that you are getting no recourse on this. You have probably already thought of this but if you paid by check have you tried to stop payment. If by credit card contested that.

Best of luck....Chicago (Mike)

Chicago, Paid by check. Cleared my bank last Friday. I may come out ok. The seller may be an honest man. I know his dealer said the gun was not cracked when it left his shop, so why would the seller care? The dealer should be held at fault. As I said, one pice of bubble wrap that was not big enough to wrap around the soft vinyl case inside a single thickness cardboard box that was 6" square is what caused this. UPS is not really to blame. The dealer was responsible. My loss.

Bill

Inform the seller that the gun he sold you arrived damaged. End of story. Stop speculating on whose fault it is on his end, it doesn't matter, he sold you a complete gun in a certain condition you agreed upon, it is his responsibity to get it to you that way. Stop moaning and take action, jeez.

Hansli: I dont think he was moaning, just sorting through his thoughts.

RGS: Sounds like good news, and if you keep it enjoy it. I have owned a couple of Sauers for 30 years, and they were 30 years old when I got them. No clue how many rounds through the 20. Only recently had first repairs done, and they were minor trigger work.

Gone across the channel of late, but still own and occasionally use Sauers.

You are falling in love with a broken gun. This is a bussiness transaction not a marriage. Unless this is a one of a kind think about returning it to the seller. Not your fault it got here broken. It was his fault or in this case his shipping dealer. Let them fight it out not you. Get you money back and go on.

Many here would fix the stock. The gun is worth fixing and I would do it if I broke it in normal use. For instance if while hunting I fell and the stock broke then I would have no problem fixing the stock. But if you fix this stock and two years from now it breaks again you will either be out the price of a restock or have to pay twice for the same repair. Then you will worry every time you use the gun that it may break again. Advoid the hassles and worry send it back. Unless the seller is a real jerk he will give you back your money. Most sellers are fair and honest people to deal with. Until proven otherwise I give them the benefit of doubt. You are on firm ground do not muddy it by fixing what is not your problem.

Ky Jon is right ...... if you fix it and want to sell it later for whatever reason ( like you just don't shoot it well) it would be right to tell the prospective buyer that the stock is fixed ..... which will certainly reduce the price.

Unless you MUST have it ...... send it back.

Al

I agree KY John, there are more guns out there, do what you have to get your money back.

Someone "cleaned up" the checkering very amateurishly. I wonder what else was done to this stock?

BUT, the real problem is that the gun was shipped assembled AND completely unprotected against bending forces.

The seller chose the shipper, not you. The packing was done incompetently. It is NOT your fault, nor do I think should be your responsibility, unless you agreed to terms giving you the risk of shipping.

You may want to ask for a return and refund, particularly if you had no reasonable way to know about the buggered checkering.

I have had several stocks worked on by Mike Jenkins 530-209-6883
Nice work, quick turnaround, and about half the price you have been talking.
Craig

RGS: there is some real merit to recent posts about passing on the gun, but I gather from your first post that lust for this gun is high.

Here is another alternative to consider. Go back to seller and tell him you are concerned about re-sale value with a repair. Have him knock $2,500 off the price for a restocking job. There are alot of great stockmakers that will charge you about $2,000 labor for a complete stock job. You should be able to get a really nice piece of wood for $500 to $700. A good stock man can probably just replace the butt and match it to the forend. Labor for just the butt should run about $1,000 to $1,200.

Best of luck on this........ Chicago (Mike)

Let us know what you decided to do.

I'm curious as to which reputable stocker does a buttstock on a sidelock for $1000-1200? Or a boxlock for that matter.

Is it the photography or my eyesight? But are there not two more cracks in the stock to the left of the guard screw 1/2" or so left? Maybe we have a bigger issue here?

Thanks for saying it RRob. I would really like to know who does this-butt stocks for $1200 and complete jobs for $2000. $2000 will buy you the labor for HALF of a Mauser stock job, much less a side lock.

Also, the idea that the dealer will let some one keep the gun and refund $2500 definitely falls into the catagory of a "stretch goal." Nothing to be lost by asking, but I would think the odds of getting a $2500 discount are approaching zero.

The person you paid is responsible for getting the gun to you in proper order. Who he contracts for packaging, shipping, whatever, does not impact who owes you money right now-the dealer you bought it from. I would either get a steep discount for the break, or ship it back first thing Monday.

John Raymond, but you caught a good goof, that $1,000 price is for a boxlock. Toby Leeds charges $30, an hour and I believe he estimates about 75 to 80 hours for most stocks.

I have never used John, but I know he does work for Westley Richards so I gather his work is decent. I got that quote this week.

What's John's contact info? Any examples of his work? I'd like to keep it for later reference.

$30 x 75-80 = $2250-2400.

John's contact information is below. I got his name from the folks at Westley Richards in Boseman. Apparently they have used him for re-stok jobs. Never investigated his work because I passed on the gun.

S&S Plus (John Raymond)
Polson, Montana
406-270-2293
http://www.ssplus.biz

I have always been under the impression the labor for a stock job was $2,000 to $2,500 for most competent folks - not necessarily the best.

A couple of posts here suggest differently - what is your experience?

This is a 'no brainer'.
Send the gun back and get your full refund.
Period.
The end.

RGS022

I understand your desire to keep this gun. Don't. It is a money pit. Unless you can get it for a less than a third of the selling price you will be better off to get your money back and keep looking. In fact if you send it back the seller will most likely have it six month from now and might be willing to sell it for pennies on the dollar to get rid of it. This gun is a money pit and it sounds like you do not have deep pockets for such a venture.

You just got a gun with a $2,500.00 hidden defect. Had the barrels been trash would you have waited on minute to send it back? No. It would cost less to have Teague line the barrels than it would to replace the stock. And even if the $2,500.00 labor plus the cost of a decent blank does not make you stop then consider that you will have two different peices of wood and matching the finish and color is almost impossible. I hate bright butt stocks and dull, dark forends that scream replacement.

If you think that a sidelock butt stock is hard and expensive to restock then just about double the total price to do the foreend. There is a reason that you see only new butt stocks and not new for and aft stocks. Every seller or owner gets to the point where they just wish to stop spending money hand over fist. Either offer to buy just the metal at a steep discount and have it stocked completely or send it back. Otherwise you will end up with more in the stock than the gun is worth. I have seen several people put $3,000.00 in a $1,0000.00 gun, mostly in LC Smiths. You are near that money pit yourself in this gun.

When you file a claim and UPS denies it because of poor packing it becomes the shippers problem. UPS is in fact saying it was badly packed and normal shipping could not be expected to get it here in one peice. The shipper has to pack it properly, which they failed to do. This seller has no choice but to give you back your money. No matter what he says he will loose when push comes to shove. Been there and done that as they say. Took me four months to get all my money back, but in the end they paid up and then some.

I am with KY on this,
if you can get your money back do it.The one thing that the seller could say is that you need to collect on the insurance.If it was packaged correctly and shipped per your instructions he may have a point but it was not.Be sure you have good pictures of the poor packing job and remind him he decided who and how shipped it(never use UPS-USPS registered -they have to sign for it at each stop).
Who was the gun shop in NH that shipped it that way and didn't take the gun down?Did the seller offer why in the world he would take it to someone to do that?

The seller contacted me last night. He knows as well as I do that a broken wrist has just brought the value of this piece to basically nothing. He asked if I would send pictures of the packing materials. I will do that tomorrow.
We talked a long time and he asked if I would want to keep the gun. I told him what the repair will cost me according to Craig at Susquehanna Gunstocks. He is refunding all but 250.00 of the purchase price. He is going afer the dealer that shipped the item. With a repaired wrist, that Craig tells me will be virtually invisible, and much stronger than the original, I wiill have less than 700.00 in this old girl. She will not be a collector, she will be used with light RST loads on grouse and woodcock. I have many guns to choose from, this one just appeals to me more than the rest.
Thanks to everyone for the replies,

Bill

RGS022

Enjoy your gun. For that much money you can take a chance. Heck I took a chance that cost me $5.00 to get in and half a millon to get out.

RGS:
Best of luck with gun. I can think of no better game to chase with a nice light ss than grouse and woodcock.

As my buddy says "I don't know how many guns I have, but I know I need one more"

Mike

KY Jon,

I've taken that same 5.00 chance 3 times myself. Cost me everything at 25, and again at 47. Third time has been a charm.

Bill

Man, sounds like you got a great deal! Sorry that it caused you so much fret and worry in the beginning, but the end result is what matters. You will now be able to hunt with a quality gun for the rest of your life, and the repaired crack will not matter in the least. For the money you have in it, I would sure do it!!!

Can you post pics of the whole gun?

Good luck hunting with it!

Mark, I am shipping the action and stock to Craig tomorrow via next day air. As soon as I get the buttstock back, I will post photos. As soon as Craig tells me the stock is ok, I will probably schedule the recoloring of the action. Barrel blue is still in nice shape, so that will wait.
Bill