Hi can anyone identify this early Beretta sxs shotgun
It's stamped 1944 but no model??
Also any idea of value?
http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/d19bjc/library/Mobile%20Uploads?evt=email_share
Interesting to see the stamp (ACCIAIO) INOSSIDABILE EXCELSIOR and then there's the ampersand floating at the end. Not sure on the modell, which might be found in a period catalogue(1944), but it appears to be an A&D Action Body with monobloc construction.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Was Beretta still making sporting firearms in the middle of WWII ?
Surprising date!
Quite sure it is a model 411E. What is the barrel length?
Greg
If possible, post an image of the underside of the forend noting any stamps on it.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Don't forget, Italy quit the Axis bafore VE day, and joined the Allies.
Mike
Not sure on barrel length till I get back home I think from memory there 29"
If its a 411e is that worth anything for the age?
Cheers
This sale may help show what a 411E might bring in the USA. As with all firearms, condition determines a lot in price / value
http://www.gunsinternational.com/S-O-L-D...un_id=100455295A new, unfired 411E 12ga from 1950's was offered recently for about 2x that price.
They are great shotguns but not nearly as popular here as numerous other makes. It's all I shoot but I see 50x more Parker's Foxes Ithaca's.
Shoot it and have fun with it!!
I was hoping one of the other members of the Beretta Society would jump in here... For a Beretta, it is not an old gun. They have been around for over 500 years.
What we can tell from the catalogs, they started carrying British guns around 1920. By the 40's, they were producing their own, which leaned heavily on British designs.
Jim Bode published this last year. It is the 1940 catalog:
- Mod. 409bis 4 locks, receiver and tubes in Krupp steel, fins
- Mod. 409 PB 4 locks, Krupp receiver, “Prima Krupp” tubes
- Mod. 409E PB As above, w/ejectors
- Mod. 410 Piccione 4 locks, “Prima Krupp tubes”, special engraving
- Mod. 410E Piccione As above, w/ejectors
- Mod. 411 Piccione Extra 4 locks, stainless “Excelsior” tubes, sideplate, toplever gold pigeon inlay
- Mod. 411E Piccione Extra As above, w/ejectors
They were constantly seeking out sources for barrels. Krupp first appears in the 1930's.
Beretta broke with their tradition and produced weapons of war during WWII. The fascist pressure was unrelenting. Eventually, the Nazis attempted to control production. All the while, the Beretta family was quietly supplying the resistance.
To see a gun dated 1944 from Beretta is very unusual. It almost had to have been made for some one special.
Pete
I think the 411 was pretty much a model 410 with side-plates. Both had the silver pigeon motif on the top lever...Geo
George
Agree if you compare 410E and 411E. Not all 410 guns have ejectors.
All 411 guns have ejectors.
My 410E HAD ejectors. They gave me so much trouble I had'em disabled...Geo
Getting back to the 1944 date- I don't know the reason, but when dating the Beretta post war guns there is generally a roman numeral stamped on the flats. You add that number to 1944 for some reason (unknown to me), to get the mfg date. So my 1961 guns are marked XVII which is 1944+17=1961. Some of the guns of the early 1950's have the actual date stamped like this 1944 on this one, but most have the roman numeral.
Does anyone know why Beretta (and maybe other Italian makers) started with 1944 date?
A second comment I'd make is that Beretta probably had parts available to make guns all through the war. I have a 1948 12ga sxs which is stamped 1948, but the barrels are Beretta marked Krupp Essen and I believe that plant in Germany got leveled by bombs.
Thanks for your help guys
Will be asking again soon for more as i need to know more if possible about a 1887 westley richards hammer sxs
Thanks again
Ben
How 'bout an image of the underside of the forend wood?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
I've added the forend iamge to the original selection of pics in the first link
Um, nope. I don't see anything stamped in the wood.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
I picked up a Beretta 12 ga boxlock at a small local gunshow earlier this summer. It has a cross bolt with an additional bite and sideclips, monoblock costuction with Krupp barrels. 1942 date stamp and the serial number is 71, xxx about 2400 lower than the gun shown earlier. There are some stamps in the wood of the forend that look to be a 3 with an upside down V after it. Good quality game scene and scroll engraving. Nice gun that needs some TLC to remove some light rust problems. It sure appears that Beretta was making shotguns during the war.
Post or forward some images & they will be added to this thread.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Interesting that the exterior of the Greener crossbolt is square while the interior is circular.
forester's Beretta - A&D Action Body Monobloc
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
