Gentleman,

I was just wondering how many of you shoot muzzleloaders or black powder? How and when did you you get your start?

I started with a used CVA Mountain Rifle back in 1980. For a while, I shot black powder exclusively. Took a few deer and even a moose back in 1982 with a .54 T/C Renegade. I now shoot a 20 gauge flintlock fusil fin, and have always loved percussion revolvers. Sort of OT, but I had a blast Saturday shooting the old guns. Have any of you tried duck hunting with an old double?

Kind regards,

Started with an absolute mint Brown Bess 50 years ago, used it to demonstrate ball accuracy with militia units, hunted briefly and sold it to buy a Fox.

I do, but I'm just about done with it. A good friend of mine retired about 3 years(1991) before I did and moved to Utah. He suggested we get ML kits so we could hunt the ML deer season when I followed his move. I got us each a T/C Renegade kit from Midsouth. By the time I moved up here, he had deteriorated into playing pasture pool and we never hunted together with them. I went to rendezvouses and got into shooting a ML shotgun. Shot mostly skeet at a few shoots over the next 16 years, including this year. Never shot a deer with the rifle but killed a bunch of clay targets and a few pheasants, chukar and doves.

I started with a CVA Frontier rifle to a TC Hawkin and finally a .50 cal flintlock by Jack Garner. I reenact the War of 1812 and have taken a nice doe with it and a handcast round ball. Your fusil...is that the type C tulle? Do you do French and Indian war with it?

I got the bug to hunt waterfowl with a blackpowder cartridge shotgun but luck didn't smile on me when I had my 10 ga. in hand. Next Year! I have the Republic 5 dram, 10 ga. #4 bismuth load.

I'm almost finished building a .54 cal flintlock sporting rifle (1740 period) built with Jim Chambers components and a Rice barrel. The only things left is a small amount of engraving and bluing the barrel. The rifle has not yet been fired. Most likely this rifle will be used mostly for punching paper. Frankly, I enjoyed the challenge of building this gun from a bag of rough bits and pieces.

Started about '78? Gosh there is darn near a rifle for every event or hunt here (.32,.36,.38,.40,.50& another .50).I do "need" a 54cal. or a 58cal. though. Only factory gun I have now is the Lyman GPR I bought back in '79, after a disaster with another factory gun.2 of the rifles are originals the rest are custom. Then there are the shotguns. All of mine are SxS's 3 in flint (16ga.,18ga. and a 20ga.)one custom, the other 2 original. Also 3 in perc.(12ga.,14ga.and a 16ga.) all of these are originals. I am shoot them all and have a great time with hunting,fur and feather, or shooting clay and paper.

Our family hosted a black powder club on our property when I was growing up. I was around BP shooting/rendezvous all the time. My first rifle was a TC Hawkin and that is all I had to hunt with my first 4-5 years. I started shooting ML shotguns when I was about 16. It was an old Brown Bess replica.
In muzzleloaders, I have 2 flint rifles (36&58cal), a 1840's vintage English percussion 13ga. single barrel w/rifle barrel, and 2 English percussion doubles. I still shoot them frequently, and compete in sporting clays at Friendship with the single and both doubles.

How is blarstin' non-tox stuff in olden barrels?

I had no luck waterfowl hunting with blackpowder cartridge shotgun. But I can tell you bismuth patterns very uniform in my 10 gauage, choked modified and full. I have a gun marked W. Richards but examination has found the locks are hand made but the metal bearing surfaces are'nt polished. Not a mark of quality or craftmanship. The gun has 1887 to 1904 Birmingham Proofs stamped on barrel and watertable. The barrel is marked London Laminated Steel, no address. It does however work. The barrels ring and have been manga-fluxed and passed.


I use the Republic Mettalic Cartridge load:
5 drams of bp
1 1/8 oz of #4 bismuth

Bismuth will not harm the barrel. I'd like to try tungsten matrix if it was available for reloading.

Post deleted by Dave Weber

Since about 1962. Navy Arms octagonal bbl .36 Navy. Handled and shot that piece 'til it ingrained the underhand toss, single-action, point-n-shoot revolver technique into my teenaged neural pathways for the rest of my life. About as cloverleaf accurate as an average .38spec for the first three shots. After that, the shallow re-pop Italian rifling couldn't handle much fouling.

I was hooked and remain so. There have been years, and even decades of lapses from the soot-belchers, but now am returning to those roots. .40cal flint Tennessee-style po'boy. Practice 'Load from the bag' incl any matches; no bench baby, me. Still working toward "Mark Baker" perfection [ ML columnist].

Proper "Management of the arms" is part of the usage, to me. BTW, for good fictional portrays of those skills, albeit Brit Napoleonic era regulars, the long saga of the 95th Riflemen and their Baker rifles, has a fair feel for it. So does that author's three piece "Yhenglyshe longbow" novels.

Altho, by constast to my simplistic approach , some of my best internationally-ranked BP friends are meticulous "plunder box at the loading bench" guys. Same attention to every action; just a different approach, And, much better shots than I, too. And, no -- I don't enjoy doin' historical-costume, period re-creation stuff --whether it's buckskins, linsey-woolsey, or Brit Edwardian.

Shot competitive SS BP pistol in the late 70's, and fiddled about with assorted long guns. In the early days of this BBS, had a decent Pedersoli SxS 12 percussion re-pop that got hunted regularly in all seasons. Did clays, etc.

Then double guns swept everything away for a bit. Now returned to a variety of shooting, what with SA revolvers, lever actions, Lee-speed style bolt-ers, .22's: the normal ass't. Mo' rounded out shooting life. Heck, gimme a case of surp 7.62x39 and one of those good Yugo SKS's from AIMsurplus and I'll empty that case in an afternoon, at tin cans. All good.

Took a Baroque carving class from Wallace Gusler, and another longrifle carving class from Jim Chambers. He produces top-notch nice kits, him. That English gent's rifle mentioned above is really sweet for a DG guy. The late John Bivins was the original builder and carver of that pattern; and Chamber's good mentor and friend. Been whittling some stock maple and making some white clouds those examples in mind.

There is an awesomely talented lawyer around here, but mostly on SSM, who about five years ago did a piece good enough to enter at the Gun Faire in Pennsy. Cast his own Rococo furniture, and did a high-commercial quality job. If he's as good a lawyer as a craftsman, he earns his money.

I'd really like to see the archaic waterfowl 'gauge' laws rescinded or relaxed; esp for black powder. A couple of years ago at the March Cleveland Decoy Show in Westlake, I handled a wonderful antique American four-bore single percussion that just begged to go a-hunting again.

Lowell, the reports on satisfaction with synthetic black powders appear to as varied as each user. One would suspect some learning curve there, as the same product can an emphatic no or yes from the reviewer. For my own part, there has never appeared to be any reason to leave blackp.

It's use and clean up can be as complex or simple as one want's to make it. If a shooter really wants smokeless powder maintenance in a muzzleloader that replicates cartridge gun performance, with modern optics, sophisticated bullets, and two hundred yard pinpoint accuracy -- well, heck howdy. Great. I do not hate either the product, gun, or user. Mo' hunters and legit gun owners is GOOD, mostly.

But for me, I see no real use for the new stuff. I want simple. A gun, bag and horn, and the knowledge to work 'em, keep 'em working, and to savor their heritage are what is important to me. That's just me.

Were the modern powders of interest, for whatever reason, there is lot of literature out there, as well as some fantastic guns and bullets to take advantage of their characteristics. Great deer smiter-s in non-cartridge rifle areas.

OTOH, if you want to pester crows in a personally rewarding manner, then a .36 or .32 caliber, long rifle wand, with swamped bbl, a fast flintlock, knockout wood, ""carv'd and florish'd"", with all the goodies of heirloom quality will scarcely set back you back financially as much as one of DoubleGrails you seek. And, use only makes a fine flinter BETTER! ;~`)

The high holy days at Friendship, Indiana -- six+ hours east of you down by Cinci are something any BP interest'd person oughta attend at least once. Do not under any circumstances bring expendable funds. Nosssir!!! The annual 'master's' show up in pennsy is really nice, too. Sorta a gathering or the Guild, tho not all folks agree on decisions made. "More authentic than thou, and I'lll say what is authentic" can happen, in the judging. Like dog shows. See "Best of Show" for a non-coverging parallel take on 'opinion' and judges. ;~`)

Well, my dog-induced,"gotta go out, there are wolves in the yard" middle of the night insomnia is now cured. Adios.

These days I usually can't remember back that far, but I think my first muzzleloader was in the early '80s, one of the Parker-Hale .451 Whitworth percussion rifles. Graduated to flint soon after and have enjoyed a Pedersoli "Mortimer" .54 quite a while, just supplemented in the last month by a 14 bore flint fowler built by Stuart Wear. It's also been a hoot to field a brace of 1860 Armys in Cowboy shooting the last several years. As I get older I seem to be going backwards in time... or maybe just going backwards!

Smoke 'em!

Building my second flintlock, first with Jim Chambers parts, Getz barrel. Not into paper punching as burned out on that years ago. But the .54 Lancaster feels good in my hand when hunting elk, deer and I like the discipline it forces about getting close. I did the blackpowder cartridge rifles with a great Sharps and took a bull with it. Quite a lot of fun but I have dropped that interest as not enough challenge. Intend to keep building (I am very slow at it) until I have a couple more rifles. May build a flintlock shotgun next. Also enjoy making the bags, horns and knives, sheaths to accompany the rifles. I have been focusing on the period beginning a decade before and through the Revolutionary war.

I whack my deer with a Knight Bighorn in .50 cal. I use 250 grain polymer tipped sabot bullets behind 150gr. of pellets. I used to have a Hawkin flintlock, but gave it away after fidding with it for 10 years and not being aboule to hit a broadside of a barn with it. I have taken about 4 deer with the Bighorn and it kills pretty good, but not as quickly as a modern cartridge gun.

I eat, breath, both exhale and inhale, sleep and dream about muzzleloaders. Got caught up in the Hatfield craze back in the 80's and bought a 50 caliber flinter, the only ignition system you are allowed to hunt with in PA during the primitive season after Christmas. I was star struck by their rich red curly maple stocks. I hunt extensively and paper shoot mine, the club I belong to the Westmoreland Rifles has both primative shoots, I'm not into that, and paper shoots.
And one thing I have learned about muzzleloading, you take on those Ohio boys you better bring your 'A' game because they always bring theirs!!!!
All the best

ABout 12 years ago I bought an Uberti Colt Walker, took it out to AZ and had a blast shooting that big hunk of metal. Had it accurized (sort of blueprinted) and haven't gotten around to shooting it since.

Have gone out for deer ML season the past two years with my Austin Halleck but have yet to connect.

Last year I bought a 28ga Birmingham single barrels percussion, it's having a new hammer screw made and will then play around with it. Lovely metal work, the ultimate "wall hanger".

Rob

I started shooting muzzleloaders as a teenager back in '57 when all we had were originals. Had a number of people just give me their relics to use--and use them I did. What I did to some of those guns would be considered to be criminal today but we didn't think anything of it back then. Over the years I've managed to acquire a number of nice flintlock rifles and have hunted exclusively with them for well over 25 years. Taken a lot of game--mostly elk and deer. Don't shoot them much anymore though. My interest has changed from big game to birds and I just haven't picked up my muzzleloading shotguns in quite awhile. Still, traditional muzzleloaders put the "hunt" back in hunting. I love 'em.

Photo is of a bull I took in the Valle Vidal in northern New Mexico in 2003. Not a monster but taken fair and square. Flintlock rifle, .58 caliber round ball. Probably my last bull.

Joe, that is a great picture with a great animal and a great looking traditional gun. My hat is off to you. Great going!

It would sure be thoughtful if you would delete one of your duplicate posts, especially when they are as long as the old testament.
Thanks

I started about 1980 after reading Foxfire 5 and its articles about building muzzle loaders. I now shoot a variety rifles shotguns and pistols with about 50 percent of my shooting done with originals rifles and shotguns and about 50 percent of my rifle shooting done with a semi custom flintlock.

cheers Doug

I have a percussion double barreled shotgun built between 1929 and 1931, the Spanish proof marks on the barrel, built by <AMR>. I have hunted with it and found it to be a blast, you talk about injecting life back into the hunt. I have also monitored some of the auctions for these doubles noting a particular strange one!! There's a George H. Daw on Gunbroker. The strange thing is that the bidding gets up there and the owner doesn't sell. Then its back on there again. This Daw has been beautifully refinished!!! Also on Gunbroker is a Thomas Bland that has been updated with fluid steel barrels!! Good stuff if you like muzzleloaders.

*Please cite more than the single instance to which you are referring. There are no others, of which I'm aware, but would certainly weed the garden, were I notified of the fact..

It would also be thoughtful if the edit function worked in the first post. It doesn't, won't, is hidden, and I've tried numerous times to make it work. You've known me long enuff to know that leaving dupe posts is not my normal 'Net manners.

As to the post itssowns'ef? Feel free not to read it. I do the same for you. Btw, I have noticed a change in the tenor of y'r address to folks here, Jim. What happened, that brought on an evident anger and consequent on-line posture? I've been hoping for quite a while, that y'd work you way around to being the former and quite likable Jim Legg that usta post here.

Nothin' personal, Jim. Just an observation I've kept to myself, as I have and will continue to refrain from comment or involvement about assorted other BBS things or personalities. Life is short. I'll see if Dave can't remove that offending eyesore. The continued existence of the un-edited first one bothers me, too.

Bon,

John

From: Two BP Lubes for the do it y'rselfer:

SEE discussion

BTW: for those of tender sensibilites, substitute y'r own handles on the reciepts, so as to make them more palatable in disscussion with perlite company.

Stumpy's Moose Juice

A general purpose blackpowder solvent and liquid patch lube. Shake well before using. Can be allowed to dry on dipped patching for a dry lube dry flat on waxed paper & dip twice for best saturation). Add ingredients in the following order and shake well after each is added.

Isopropyl Alcohol (91%) 4 TABLESPOONS
Castor Oil 1 1/2 TABLESPOONS
Murphys Oil Soap 1 1/2 TEASPOONS
Witch Hazel 2 TABLESPOONS
Water (non-chlorinated) 1/2 CUP


Stumpy's Moose Snot

A premium multi-shot between wiping (10+) patch lube stable over a wide temperature range.
SPECIFICALLY designed for use of patched round balls in a loading block

Beeswax 2 oz.
Castor Oil 8 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.


Heat beeswax in a soup can set a pot of water. ( A double-boiler. I keep my beeswax in a one pound coffee can and measure out what I need by melting it and pouring it into measuring cups). Add just enough water to the pot so that the inner can does not begin to float (should be just short of the lube level in the can). Heat the water to a low boil. In a separate can, add the castor oil and Murphy's oil soap (cold). Once the beeswax is melted, swap the castor oil can in the pot of water for the beeswax. Add the beeswax to the oils. It will clump up. Stir with an ice tea spoon as the mixture heats up. When it fully melts there will often be a scum that floats to the top and just won't mix in. Be patient. DO NOT COOK THE MIXTURE. Once the solids are dissolved there is no need to heat further. Skim the scum off. Remove the mix from the heat and wipe the water off the outside (so it won't drip into the container when you pour it out). FINAL TOP SECRET STEP: Add a generous teaspoon of Murphy's Oil Soap and stir vigorously. This last step makes the lube frothy, smooth and more smearable - really adds to the appearance; though it doesn't seem to matter to the function of the lube. Clamp the can in the jaws of a vice-grip pliers and pour into the waiting tins. Allow to cool a half hour.

Started shooting ML in 1970- went to Friendship in 71- shot mostly pistol and some shotgun. I've built five pistols and twelve long guns. Three years ago I shot a deer with a 12ga matchlock I built. I tried for two years to shoot a deer with that gun [ a little more trouble with a burning wick]. I don't go to Friendship anymore after 28 years, but still shot the local matchs and hunt only with a muzleloader or SxS hammergun. Paul

I probably shouldn't post after tee martoonees.

In shotgun, I shoot a 20ga and a 12ga sxs flint and an 8ga John Mullin sxs cap. I own one suppository shotgun, an old damascus 12ga sxs that my son shoots BP cartridges. I don't own a smokeless shotgun.

I started maybe 35 years ago with a replica Colt 1860 Army revolver. Gave it to a friend before moving up here. Bought a Lyman Great Plains .50 flinter from a friend maybe 20 years ago; I wound up trading that off, but replaced it with another .50 flinter (Pedersoli) from a friend's estate. Since then, I've accumulates a 16ga flint double, a .32 flinter, and Parker-Hale replica Enfield Pattern 1858 (Navy) Rifle, my only caplock.

Joel

My first post here. This thread brings back memories of the very first Dixie Gunworks catalog I got in 1958. I remember it was about the size of a legal envelope nothing like the huge catalog it became in later years. I wanted one of those Dixie Squirrel rifles made in Belgium so bad I could taste it. Joe

Welcome to the Board Old Joe!!!!
Dixie's Squirrel rifle did that look like their later Tennessee Mountain rifle with that Cherry stock?
All the best

I’ve been building guns for (Gawd!) about 30 years now. I’ve done a couple modern guns, but mostly I build flinters. Started out with longrifles, sort of to carry on the tradition of my ancestors – the Pennsylvania Germans who built the original longrifles. My reason was that I was having a hard time enjoying killing deer and I thought that hunting with my own handmade flinter would bring back the thrill - it didn't. I discovered that a good flinter is every bit as effective and deadly in the field as any single-shot iron-sighted modern rifle.

I built a few on my own in the early 70’s – they were pretty awful, but I was able to sell them for enough money to buy parts (bbl, wood, brass, etc) to build the next one. In an effort to accelerate the learning process, I served as a unpaid “apprentice” to a professional flintlock gunmaker for a few weeks - took vacation, parked my camper in his driveway and worked for free in his shop (attached to his house) all day – everything from sweeping floors to learning the colors when making a spring. Things began to improve after that and I made a bunch of longrifles.

Eventually, I got to the point where I didn’t enjoy the grunt work of gunmaking – roughing out a stock, laying a swamped bbl into the wood, etc, and as much as I enjoyed the finish work (relief carving, chasing and engraving). So, I started studying and making the much more elaborate German Jaeger rifles. As you may know, one man pretty much built the early longrifles – doing everything from forging the bbl to the final carving and engraving. But, in Europe, there were guilds – one group did the lock, another the bbl, still another the engraving, etc – so the guns were much more sophisticated.

Anyway I build Jaeger rifles these days. Generally, I find an original that I like and try to reproduce it exactly (except for a longer LOP to fit modern humans).

It’s been a while since I finished a rifle, but here are some pics of my most recent rifle – it takes me several years to build one – I can’t stand TV, so work on them at odd times when I get the urge, like at night. This is an exact copy of a rifle made circa 1690 – a very early Germanic rifle. Interesting because it has the sort of fluting on the buttstock that one see in more southern European guns of the period, but has the classic Germanic architecture. Also very elaborate finishing. For example, if you look very closely at the sideplate, you can see a little guy in 17th Century dress with this very rifle slug over his shoulder. I have a LOT of hours into that sideplate.

Rifle with Hirschfanger (period hunting sword):



View of handmade, engraved lock – note large, rounded lockplate and unbridled frizzen – both features of very early flintlocks:



.62 caliber business end. The rifle shown here is the upper one – the lower one is a simple military Jaeger like the one carried by one of my ancestors, who was a "Hessian" rifleman (Jaeger) captured at Saratoga in ’77 and brought here as a POW.



View of chased trigger guard – note figure holding this rifle:



Poor view of buttstock carving – again this is the upper rifle – the lower one is a simple military rifle.



Sideplate:



Detail of sideplate:



Butt tang



Rear ramrod thimble:



Front trigger guard tang:



At one time, I did quite a bit of flintlock rifle, pistol and musket competition – traveled all over the place doing this. In recent years, I have the time and means to follow my true life long passion – my beloved pointing dogs and upland wingshooting, so I don’t do much flintlock shooting any more. The one exception is that I still do use a longrifle for our local PA Dutch live turkey shoots each Fall – partly to keep up the traditions of my ancestors and partly because they really are superb offhand iron-sight target rifles that can pick off a turkey’s head at 100 yards with no problem.

Once I built a cool 16 bore English officer’s fusil (think a miniature Brown Bess with some fancy refinements) to use for bird hunting, but I discovered that: (i) it was not really any different in performance than any other single shot 16 gauge; and (ii) it was an enormous amount of hassle to deal with while trying to work active dogs, etc. Gave that up.

Regards,

Greg

Dang, I think I drooled my keyboard to a sto

Beautiful work Greg!!!! And I agree that the flintlock amazes people as to its quickness and its efficiency. People stand spellbound looking at that lock, shaking their heads as I explain how it works. Then a quick sample shot and it goes off in a blink of an eye the usual responce is "wow"!!!
All the best

Yes. Too many people are exposed to cheapie "repro" flinters. The lock/touchhole system on most of those is just horrible - it is amazing they work at all (often they don't). Plus, most people don't know how to manage or load a flinter - they will fill the pan with powder, so it burns like a fuse, and pound bullets down the bore with a hammer (!!) or a "short-starter".

The old-timers never did that - they loaded easily with the ramrod and they developed loads that didn't build up fouling in rifles, so they could shoot all day long without needing to clean between every few shots, etc, etc. They used just a touch of powder in the pan for instant ignition, etc.

A well-built and well-managed flinter in the hands of someone who knows what he is doing is a very effective sporting arm indeed. The biggest weaknesses are the poor BC and terminal ballistics of a roundball and the fact that the traditional tiny, low iron sights are very hard for those of us with some years under our belts to see.

I bought a double barrel muzzle loader in 1969. It was a W. Richards in fair shape. I recently wrote an article about restoring it in the Feb. issue of Muzzle Blast mag.

I mostly use it for Skeet at the national shoot at Friendship.
Both black powder and the sub work fine for Skeet.

Tnx
RPr

I started in 1975 with a CVA flinter in .50 and sold it, bought the parts for this one with the money.
A good friend finished what I started and I have killed several white tailed deer with this .50 shown below.
Next is a 12 ga. flintlock fowler sometime this early summer.

I started with a 1863 Zouve replica 58 cal, and still find it a lot of fun, then threw together one of the old CVA 50 cal double bbl. kits. Finally had a Caywood 36cal souther mountain rifle built in flintlock. Using 000 buckshot and about 30gr of fff it is great, not much fouling and accurate. I just don't have enough time to shoot it much.

Can we get Greg FIVE stars please?!

Some very nice work.

Mark

Hello,

I have been watching the site for quite awhile and finally decided to post because I have become interested in either purchasing a ML Shotgun or builiding one from kit. I have done a kit so I am a little skittish.

Do any of you have advice on buying or building? AND If so any recomendations would be greatly appreciated. I have looked at Pedersoli and some kits at Dixie Gun Works.

My uncle got me interested in doubles as a kid watching him wield a Citori in flooded cypress like something out of a novel. He also shoots an LC Smith that was my Great Great Grandfathers. I have owned my double 12 Ga for about 8 years and love it. I bought it on my own and still get ribbed by buddies in the duck blind for buying an O/U when they all have Autos. I tell them if I did everything like you I would have two exwives and three kids that hate me, since I didn't I have one awesome wife no kids and a heck of a lot more expendable income.

Built my first rifle, a Green River Rifle Works .54 Leman in '83. Used it for deer and gravitated to competition. Although a .54 is definitely not the ideal offhand target gun, it won the South Carolina State Championship four times and placed in the top three five more in the '80's and early '90's. Bought a Bean style .36 about '92 for head shooting squirrels and found it to be quite accurate on paper with a .355 ball so began using it in competition. Not great in the wind, but it won the S. C. State Championship several times, too. Then I lost the keenness of eyesight at about age 50 that is SO necessary for fine competitive notch and post sight work, and kinda lost interest in paper punching.

In '83 and '84 I competed at Friendship in offhand rifle and buffalo rifle. Had built a 13# 15 oz. .45 cal buffalo rifle with Redfield 75 and front aperture that is superbly accurate. I have targets I have shot with it using a .455 ball that measures 5/8" inch ctc for five shots. Many will deny that a patched round ball can do that, but I know better. Many other old bench and buffalo shooters do, too.

Bought a 16 ga. Powell double at Friendship in '84 and killed many limits of doves with it here and in S.Carolina with 1 oz. of 7 1/2's over and equal volume of 2F Goex. Sold it a few years ago to a friend and was recently given an original Manton, (not a Joe), 16 ga. double by a dear friend and his wife. It is in nearly unfired condition. Perfect bores and absolutely no pitting around the nipples. Haven't tried it out yet, but will eventually on early season doves this year.

Agree with Greg on the dismal BC of round balls, that is a scientific fact. But not on the poor terminal ballistics. My years of experience with them on game from squirrels to whitetails has been quite different. I have found that the cohesive nature of pure lead, and that is all I use, causes the percentage of weight retention to be quite high. That is, when you don't have complete penetration. And penetration can be phenomenal for a projectile of such low sectional density. In one instance I shot a 220# buck in the front of the chest at 80 yds. with a 237 grain .535 ball ahead of 120 grains of FFg. It penetrated the buck lengthwise and exited underneath his right hind leg never to be seen again. Unbelievable wound channel. A .45 cal. ball ahead of only 60 grains will exit a big buck shot sideways through the ribs/lungs. When the balls do hit bone they deform, and become even more deadly as they plow on, retaining much of their original weight. There's never been a perfect bullet made, and round balls have many faults, but I've never found terminal ballistics to be a problem. But then, I've never tackled dangerous game with one. Many others have, though. I would agree that compared to modern jacketed bullets under many conditions the round balls will come in second. But a deer or smaller thin-skinned game shot properly with one will never know the difference.

My experiences and those of my acquaintances only. Stan

I am one of the shooting instructors for our 4-H Field & Stream Club, instructing mostly in shotgun (5-stand & sporting clays) and muzzleloading. Our kids all shoot muzzleloading rifles for competition (in the NRA Youth Hunter Education Challenge), and many use them for hunting during both the muzzleloading and youth seasons. And some go so far as hunting dove with our double barrelled Petersoli ML shotguns.

I personally started ML with an old civil war .58 cal ML by Springfield (I think) many years ago just for fun. It caught on to the point that I seemed to always have at least one muzzleloading rifle or shotgun in my inventory. I used to take one of my shotguns to the skeet range for fun and everyone wanted to try their hand using a FL waterfowler on # 3 or #4 stations.

Now, with our 4-H kids we use mostly T/C caplock rifles for hunting and YHEC competition; however, Texas State 4-H championships are now including muzzleloading trap. We have just ordered shotgun barrels for our caplock rifles. The kids would much rather practice shooting with the ML than with the modern firearms. Jim Haynes

I've shot ducks with my old, and now gone 1887 Jos. Lang Blne.
Now, I'm hoping to shoot some with my 1902 Remington 1894 AE.
I going to use Gamebore Blackpowder shells and replace the shot with 1oz of TM from another shell.