Does anyone know how I can get a copy of the American Rifleman magazine's tests of the Winchester Model 21?
The magazine tells me that their archives do not go that far back. So there is no joy there.
Is there any other place that can offer scanned copies of the tests?
Apparently these were the second batch of tests of the Model 21. The first had been done by Winchester in the 1930s. The American Rifleman tests were like a replay and somewhat more "scientific".
I have the Rifleman from 1945 forward if you can provide a date
of issue in the mag.
Mike
The most reliable date I have seen is in the October 1963 issue. Would really appreciate seeing that article.
We know from experience, not testing, that the forearm and lower rib get ripped off of Winchester Model 21's with beavertail type forearms. That seems to be the only weak link in the Winchester Model 21. Shooters that hold on tight to the beavertail forearms of Win Mdl 21's take up a great deal of the recoil by way of the forearm and that force is taken by the forearm lug which is part of the lower rib. After a few thousand shots fired the lower rib gets loose. The first clue that the shooter has that something is wrong is when the forend begins to rattle. Most all of our SXS's have a weakness somewhere or other, the lower rib lug is the Win Mdl 21's weakness. Good Shooting To You, Jent
Heh heh, yup, it's a bad gun with a lot of bugs. Why would anyone want to know about the flawed AR tests that suggest that this gun is a piece of crap. Oh, the AR tests didn't suggest that? The "forend lug" is a fairly weak point on a Model 21, but the lousy gun doesn't have any other weaknesses that any of us would notice. My friend, Jent Mitchell, mentions a possible weak point, but many Model 21s are shot thousands of times with out the forend lug problem that he mentions. OK, I'll look up the tests and forward them to someone.
Anything mechanical can, and will, eventually break....a shotgun has not been made that is indestructible, and some are weaker in areas than others. An old time gunsmith once told me a Parker with double triggers and extractors would give tremendous service as they were tough, and to avoid any with single triggers and ejectors. He also rated the 21 as one of the best double guns with single triggers and ejectors. When I pressed him as to what he considered the best shotgun ever made, he simply replied; "A Remington 870, I'd hate to have to make a living repairing them."
Capt. Chas. Askins devoted about a page and a half to the Winchester Model 21 in the July 1930 issue of The American Rifleman. Mostly a regurgitation of the failing company's announcement of the gun, including lies about how light it was!! I searched through the remaining issues of 1930, 1931 and 1932 and didn't find a review of the Model 21. The American Rifleman for 1932 did have reviews of the Browning Superposed which the good Captain really took to in January, the Remington Model 32 in May by F.C. Ness, and Magnum Shotguns discussing the Ithaca Magnum-Ten NID in July again by Capt. Askins. I also checked the index for 1933 and nothing Model 21 was listed.
How about this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Magazine...98#ht_303wt_892For about $6, it gets bought and sent to your house
If Winchester, and other American double gun manufacturers had picked up on the J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. method of doing a forearm loop, we wouldn't have so many problems today!!
I handled a model 21 for the first time a few weeks ago. After a lifetime of familiarity with English and European "best" it was a surprise.
It was a plain blued 21 built in the 30s, with a semi beavertail forend and it was solid, and I mean solid. The mechanical quality was a revelation.
THe loop problem is easily fixed by making a new loop with more surface area for the solder, something easy to do fif the gunsmith is not a prima donna. The Stevens loop is interesting but the same surface area can be had in a bottom loop.
The same surface area can be had but it won't be captured, as it is on the Stevens.
Their check hook is another innovative feature the Stevens had. It is described in the ad above. Carrying the shotgun breech open may well be a lot of the reason there are problems with soldered forend lugs. That can put a tremendous amount of leverage against the lug, something I am cognizant of, and careful about when I must do so. When I see people carrying a double (O/U or S x S) open, with their hand under the receiver, walking along with the 30"/32" barrels "bouncing" as they go, I cringe. If you must carry it open, as when waiting to shoot on a squad of other shooters, better to hold it against your side in such a way that the barrels hang vertical, relieving the forend and lug of that stress, IMO.
SRH
Stan;
I am in total agreement with you on the matter of an open gun. Under hunting situations I would on occasion if encountering other hunters open my gun (& Unload) but hold it carefully. If approaching a hazardous area which I didn't want to navigate with a loaded gun I always opened it, removed the shells & then closed it back. I always felt that if I should take a bad tumble the gun would fair better bolted shut than with the barrels swinging free. Plus in a situation such as this if the gun is opened & the shells left in there is as much, or more, of a possibility of the gun being slammed shut in a fall & discharging as there is if it were simply left loaded & bolted.
The American RIfleman February 1982 has a good several page article on the 21 by Michael McIntosh
If someone really needs it , I could scan and e mail it.
Capt Crossman recomendation of the 21:
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Re the forend loop thing. The model 21 with its inbuilt barrel stop prevents any undue loading of the forend loop when the gun is open. I mentioned this feature to several UK trained smiths and they all scoffed at the idea of a useful barrel stop. On the other hand, they tend to scoff at most anything not designed in the UK or embodied into UK practice.
Losing a forend during firing is another thing altogether. I had it happen on brand new guns and from that I deduce that it is not just a matter of static loading, as in carrying the gun open, but a more dynamic thing that occurs during firing.
I have a reasonably good collection of AR going back into the late 1920s. I don't dig in to them that often, but if you can give me a target date, I'll take a look.
The best I could find was that there is a two page article in October 1963 regarding the model 21. I know that the test was carried out in the 60s, but cannot see any other reference to the model 21 in the 60s issue contents.
Thank you for your help.