I'm just back from my umpteenth Southern SxS. These are great shoots, as much for the camaraderie as for the targets and gun vendors.

What would you think about the addition of an optional side event or two for slide action guns? Of course, it would be all true pairs. Classic pumps, while certainly very different from side by sides, are so very American and they can have a charm of their own. Viz the Winchester Model 42s.

The pumps wouldn't be in competition with the SxSs. Just an event on the side and some extra fun. Many of you enjoy both types of guns. What are your thoughts?

Bruce

Many of us who now prefer doubles began with pump-guns. Mine was a Remington model 31 20ga and I wish I still had it...Geo

Bruce,
You should talk with Jent Mitchell. He runs several pump gun shoots in the Mid-Atlantic states. I think you would enjoy talking with him about this.
Milt

Last year, during the 2012 shooting season, at The Flying Rabbit a side event for pump guns was held during the Virginia State Sporting Clays Shoot.

Last year at PHSC a THREE BIRD shoot was held for one of the charity fund raising shoots. They had a pump gun division and a semi-auto division. When the shooter called for the birds three birds were launched. I do not recall how many of the stations were true three birds but several of the stations were true three bird stations. Other stations were following birds. It was a great deal of fun. Some of the stations were set up to see if the shooter was smart enough to get two. There was no way for a normal human to shoot at and hit all three of the clays thrown but a normal shooter could get two of the clays if he planned it that way from the beginning. It was a small version of an IQ test. If the shooter got greedy and tried for all three he might end up with a one or a zero instead of a sure 2.

These THREE BIRD shoots are great great fun.

Good Shooting To You All, Jent

Sounds like a good idea. I don't have a classic pump. I'm afraid all I have is an old Bubba camo'd (YEEHAA pass the krylon!)12 gauge 870 Express I picked up at a pawn shop for bad weather hunting. Of course that don't mean I couldn't get me one

I think the idea sux. Let pump gun guys go and start their own associations, set up web sites, promote their own choice of gun and set up their own shoot events. It sounds like you want them to piggy back on work of so many others who devoted time and energy to get side by side associations started. Reminds me of the lazy grasshopper and industrious ant fable.

Why couldn't a guy bring along his pump gun to shoot, as long as he shot the double portion as well? Is there a line of demarcation twixt double gunners and pump gunners, or are they sometimes one and the same? Perhaps a younger guy, with only a pump to shoot, could discover an interest in doubles if he was permitted to enjoy an event with his own gun.

Reminds me that people who look down their noses at guys with a pump gun are usually not someone you'd care to spend a day afield with.


Best,
Ted

It has nothing to do with the gunner and everything to do with the type of gun, and it's not a turn down of the nose down on pump guns. Yah and the guy can bring his hump back auto, flint lock, percussion, pellet gun, one hole target rifle and paint ball gun and shoot them as side events at the big side by side shoots. Just cabbage on the work of others, instead of showing initiative and setting up their own associations. CB

Ditto Ted. My son who is now 16 started shooting with me in Vintager events when he was 11 with his kids-sized BPS 20. He quickly graduated to SxS and does quite well. Pump gunners have their own association, but none of the guys I shoot SxS with would begrudge their participation. I wouldn't.

That's the doublegunshop.com spirit, boys!

A "big tent" is where it's at.

I think I'll take my Street Sweeper to this year's Vintagers!

(I oughta clean up on the clays course!)

I think it is a good idea. Pumps, while looked down upon by some, are truly American and as I read somewhere "it takes a real man to shoot a pump gun."

I mostly shoot doubles but I do use my Browning Uplander pump gun when walking over treacherous terrain or when out waterfowl hunting in salt marshes. I also use it when in grizzly country where I have the first two rounds consisting of bird shot and the last three rounds with magnum slugs.

Amen. Gil

"Never bet folding money against the man who shoots a well-worn pumpgun"-- Rudy Etchen shot a 870 for years, along with his Purdeys--

Bruce's idea seems like good marketing - if we want to someone to come along after all us grumpy old doublegunners, inviting pump guns shooters (and others) and showing them the sublime joys of double guns might not be a bad idea.

Reminds me of recruiting . . . .

Do you think we should point out that in real life, the ant has about a two week gig, no matter how hard he works, and the grasshopper dies at the end of summer no matter how much food he has around him?

Or, that it is a rare day that this board has more then perhaps 100 people looking at it, at any given time?

Or, that license fees collected by DNR departments across the country have been in a down hill slide for two or three decades, with fewer people interested in outdoor pursuits that include shooting?

No, we wouldn't want to be proactive or inclusive. Just let it rot on the vine.


Best,
Ted

I think we should include them in discussion here on this board. The classics anyway. That should lead to some lively discussions.

Skeet is in freefall in these parts, as the NSCA game has drawn us away. Until recently our club fielded a full squad of M-42 shooters annually for a NSSA .410 event. We always had fun but 42s now turn out for NSCA .410 events......even winning. CH, RU, and B1 used repro 42s at the state .410 shoot (23 entries) this past June.

Also, separate pump and SxS events drew about equal numbers of shooters at state. In general, the pump side events are better populated vs SxSs.

Sam

I don't know for sure but: is there a rule against shooting pump guns in registered shoots of any gauge??

I shoot four hundred and ten and twenty eight gauge in open registered sporting clays events. Of course my scores are low compared to the twelve guns, but I take ample doses of blood thinners and slickers and can't take the recoil and when I do shoot twelve gun it's a three quarter ounce load.

I shoot only for the pure enjoyment of shooting sporting clays. Sometimes I'll shoot a four ten pump gun or four ten drop in tubes.

If it's a side by side event I don't shoot, simple enough. Watched a eight year old boy shoot the crap out clays several weeks ago. Shot a little twenty gun Remington automatic?????

IMHO: The pump guns separate the men from the boys.....
Just ran across a winchester 42 with a solid rib, scratched up but not shot much. Poo hoo, I just purchase a Browning 42 Grade V for my Grandson.
I think the Mrs. would shoot me if a bought another . . .

Junnie, There is no rule against use of the 1/2 oz .410 in any 12, 20, or 28 ga NSCA or NSSA event. I'm sure you know this and are jesting. I haven't tried a 42 in a main event, but have used M-12 16s, and various 20s......mostly with 3/4 oz weenies.

I don't imagine you could enter your 42 in a SxS event.

Solid ribs are my favorite 42s, although the VR repros make really steady range guns (and ideal candidates for choke tubes).

But, no, it is not possible to have too many 42s.

Sam

Over the years there haven't been too many rumblings on pump threads or remarks that have stuck to the classics--M12, M42, M17, M31 and M37. There's been a few you-know-jOe "bumper jack" remarks which have actually been funny. (I know if he can shoot a turkey with an auto SBE, he has to have a spot somewhere in his heart for pumps or at least in his 4x4 to change tires.) As long as we don't have "pimp my pump" threads and keep it to a minimum, most will tolerate our nostalgic backsliding.

I'm agin' it. I don't think pumps should be included in this forum. Too much tolerance in the world today, anyway.

Include pumps, then the next thing will be introducing "vintage automatics", as if that isn't an oxymoron.

Let the pump gun enthusiasts start their own forum. Doubleguns and singleshots is a wide enough berth, IMO.

SRH

I would have to concur!
DT

Aw, come on...

This is turning into the Model 12/pump gun/All-American Shootin' Machinery forum anyway.

Before you know it, ed good will start torching Remington 870 receivers!

(don't ya just love it when a BBS circles the drain?)

OK Gentlemen and Ladies, Everybody is invited to speak and share pump guns on FACEBOOK at----

https://www.facebook.com/groups/141122002664156/

We were not able to shoot our pump guns often this last summer, the summer of 2013. We hope to do more pump gun shooting in the summer of 2014. At our pump gun shoots we try to always have a few three bird stations, three clay targets in the air all at once to shoot your pump gun at. Our All American Pump Gun Club is based in Virginia but we have been seen in South Dakota and Kansas chasing pheasants with our Model 12s and Model 25s in hand.

Good Shooting To You All, Jent

"Feel free to use this system to discuss your doubles, drillings, combination guns, other fine firearms, and related material. The rules are really simple: Stay on the subject matter, keep it clean, and contribute answers when you can!" Dave's preamble at the top of the forum.
"Other fine firearms" is expansive and doesn't limit discussion to doubleguns, and has been noted, already includes single-shot.
BB aka Ed, would you stand a little closer to the drain? I'd like to take a group photo. Move closer. Keep moving...I'll tell you when to stop.

Actually, Robert, the fine print has always read "and other fine firearms" since the inception of the double gun BBS-not that you'd know that, since, you are a more recent, festering addition. Along with jOe, you missed the forum in it's earlier, more freewheeling form, when a spade was called a spade, and a festering addition was called a festering addition. Or, worse.
I can't believe I just wrote that, but, hey, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Pumps, American, and otherwise, have been discussed, and information shared, here, since day one. Henceforth, when you see information shared on a pumpgun here, don't think of it as a "circling of the drain", in the same light as when you rinse your little swimmers from one of the orafices of "Patches", your well worn blow-up doll.
Think of it as just a forum for the sharing of useful information. Useful information that you consistantly fail to supply in your posts, by the way.
Not that anyone notices.


Best,
Ted

Ah, Teddy Bean...

The mind of a true sophisticate.

And the vocabulary of a sewer.

He's right. You haven't added even one piece of information to this board on anything.

So, I ask, why are you here, to annoy us?

Thank you. A pleasure, Robert. As you post completely useless, and, dare I say, unwanted little rants, simply think of me as the glaring mirror in the sun that illuminates, for all members to see, the true you-and your inflatable playmate.


Best,
Ted

I guess with Dave's forum rules being what they are, if pumps are automatically included under "fine firearms" then A5s, and 1100s, and Super-Xs, and SBEs, and Colt 1911s, and M1 Garands, and Rem. 700s, and Springfield '03s, and AR-15s, and Glocks, etc., are, too. All could be argued to be "fine firearms" under the broadest sense of the term.

I, personally, always thought Dave's preamble, being at the top of the list of all the forums, was a way of saying, "Here's a place to discuss several categories of fine firearms, and forums for each of them". I do see forums for (1)Doubleguns, (2) Double Rifles, Paradox Guns and Gauge Rifles (3) Classic & Custom- Single Barreled Sporting Rifles (4) German and Austrian Sporting Guns and ......... Aw, Shoot! There it is, Gil, under Misfires it clearly lists it as being the forum for "non-fine firearms". My sincerest apologies, there IS a place for pumps here.

Just funnin' with you, buddy. SRH

Because:

Simpletons like you and Teddy Bean are so easily annoyed...

Most arrogant pump gun dupes are.

(new information?)

And, easy is what you are all about. "Patches" wouldn't have it any other way now, would she old boy?

Do you remember the day your poor old Mom discovered her, in her basement, where you live? Egads, that was wretched.

Bad form becomes you, even in her eyes. Well, since then, anyway.

I actually want to thank you. I consider you the poster child for leftists everywhere, hiding anonomously behind their screen name and their keyboards, next to their inflatable soulmate, although she is hidden from your elderly mother. Wouldn't want to revisit that now would we?

Where would we be without you? Just as the King had his jester, we have our douchebag. I'm sure you are the envy of the board, along with old jOe, the idiot who proved for all to see he couldn't identify a screw grip. Or the other moron who recently asked if Gene Hill was still around, preceded by asking if boxlocks ever had intercepting sears.

(God am I so glad I didn't say that).

The yucks are so worth it.

Best,
Ted

I thot the original question was pretty much covered in the title. I can see no reason not to have such an event if there is sufficiant interest. I suspect many here beyond those that have spoken to this thread have & use or did use a pump of one sort or another at some point in time or still do. An additional 'event' takes nothing away from anyone. I would liken it to an ATA [Down the Line] shoot for lack of a better example where there are typically three events, 16 yd., handicap & doubles. If you don't wish to shoot one of them no one cares in the least. Why make an issue of an honest question posed by a standup guy?

Jent's format sounds like fun, but I'm sure there could be variants and the non players would find something to complain about there too. That is not being said to 'pick' on anyone, rather a simple observation. Let up guys! Mr. Buck's inquiry sounds like nothing more than an opportunity to have a bit more fun at a venue w/people we share common ground and interest with.

I guess if there were sufficient interest/demand [which there isn't, far as I can tell] Dave could be petitioned to create a specific forum for 'others'. As it is we have gleaned some interesting information from time to time from members here regarding both cartridges, their development and other 'skinny' from what originated as a 'pump gun' inquiry. Personally, I can't thank people like researcher & others adequately for their willingness to share both their personal knowledge and their archived information.

A pump gun event only sounds like an opportunity for a bit more fun for those attending these get togethers of shotgun enthuiasts. I'd go so far as to say that I'd bet if you do not own one & wished to shoot that another shooter would be happy to have you shoot theirs.

Just my thots.

Kind regards, tw

I've got a gun or two that doesn't fit under either category.
Gil

You my friend are an old bumbling idiot....how about leaving me out of your insane rants.

I don´t see why not, esp if old. I started shotgunning with one. Got my licence from the local post office fo 50 pence (about 1 dollar) when I was 14 years old. It cost me 90 GBP and was a mossberg 500, 8 shot police gun with a lengthed barrel (24" is minimum in UK), took me 6 months to save for it in my part time job, and used it to shoot DTL on Sundays in the field next to the pub where the old man went for a drink. Had to sell it when I went to college as I was skint. I wish I still had it. Those days seem so long ago. That is the reason I bought Mike McIntoshs´ model 12, nostalgia I suppose, best, Mike

The Gator Skeet and Trap Club will be hosting the World Vintage Skeet Championships in the first full weekend in March of 2014 and there will be events for pump gun shooters as well as S x S shotguns. Some events will be S x S only, but most will have pump gun classes. We will post a link to the program when it's available. Thanks for looking, Jim Pettengill

I'm with Stan. There's just too much tolerance these days. I'm getting intolerant of tolerance.

Yeah Chuck, that tolerance intolerance thing is sort of an oxymoron. You ought a be a doctor.....talk about tolerance intolerance in this day and age. Don't speak of anything political at a hospital.......and God forbid making disparaging comments re ObamaCare, unless you like getting kicked in the balls or even castrated. I was born 100 years too late, I think.

I'm with Stan too! Toleration, multiculturalism, co-existence and diversity is just like letting the skunks nest under the house. It always causes a stink...Geo

Funny - the doubleguns in my safe seem to get along just fine with my father's Model 12. But then again, no one told them that they are different . . . .

Now that's what I call tolerance.

To protect the 21s I must keep them separated from the 12s and 42s. See, I don't shoot the 21s as well as I do repeaters and......well......the repeaters know it. They can be cruel and insensitive; and doubles are easily offended. And that just increases their maintenance needs.

How do you explain to a repeater that hitting stuff isn't everything? Don't we all sometimes want to look good....even if we mostly miss?

Some people think "storage wear" just happens. I know better.

Sam