I'm presently researching a 20-gauge LC Smith Specialty Grade which gun features this barrel stamp "USA-F". This gun was shipped in May, 1942 and was not shipped to Rochester Ordanance; but instead to an entity listed as "Northern Commercial" with no address (anyone know what/who Northern Commercial may be?). All Smith gun shipped to Rochester Ordanance are stamped with a flaming bomb symbol; whereas this gun has no such stamp. In 1942 there was no US Air Force, as that division of the military was designed the U.S. Air Corp in 1942 (the Air Force we know today was establised in 1947) so the "F" portion of this barrel stamp would not designate Air Force. I've personally seen a Smith gun or two bearing the USA-F barrel stamp and had always thought that particular gun had been acquired for the military; but am now uncertain. So my question is does anyone know the significance of this "USA-F" barrel stamp? Has anyone seen this same stamp on other make guns? Thanks in advance for your assistance. Tom

Northern Commercial was a huge company operating in at least Alaska, like Hudson Bay Company in Canada. They traded in almost everything.

Daryl, thanks; that's certainly more information than I had. Was Northern Commercial a sporting goods company, hardware company, etc? Knowing the nature of this business would a;sp be good to know. Hopefully someone will see this post this evening and shed some light on those mystery "USA-F" stamps.
Best
Tom

Tom,
Have you posed this qustion to Jim S, and perhaps someone on our forum can add something ????
Dick

Daryl, your comparison to HBC is quite apt. In the eighties, HBC spun off their northern stores division into an independent public company, known as the North West Company. In the early 1990's the North West Company purchased Northern Commercial. I used to do business with the North West Company.

Tom, those stores service very small, very isolated communities all across the north. They sell everything. They are the closest thing left to a general store, hardware, food, clothing, sporting goods, you name it. If the community needs it, they get it. From a business perspective, the best thing about the operation is there is no competition and highly unlikely that someone will try.

Dick:
Yes indeed this question has been posed to Jim Stubbendieck, and also to barrel stamp expert Drew House; we remain stumped at this pont, which is why I thought it appropriate to pose the question to the double gun community on this forum.

James
Thanks for the additional info on Northern Commercial. As to the gun being researched, the LC shipping records note thie gun as being shipped to Northern Commercial, but do not record city or territory destination. Interestingly the gun was returned to the factory two weeks after being shipped to Great Northern; then was shipped in conjunction with another other of guns, final destination not recorded. The factory commenced building this gun 10 days after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, can't help wondering if the stamp in question may have patriotic significance? Again, all help is appreciated.
Tom

Northern Commercial was as Canvasback says. Early on, the company was called Alaska Commercial. Northern Commercial sold anything from food to Caterpillar. I think their "home" office was in Seattle during my years in Alaska.

The USA-F has been discussed at lengths on the Smith forum. I have seen a number with the marking on the barrels only without the flats markings flaming bomb, crossed cannons and RLB or some other military inspector's mark. All that I have seen were made in 1942. If it is an inspector's mark he only worked in 1942.

Maybe as suggested, USA was a patriotic mark added by worker F or maybe it stands for Fulton. USA-F has also been seen on the boxlock Fultons as some of those were also sold to the military. Ithaca and Stevens also sold doubles to the military but none I have seen have USA-F marks which seems exclusive to Hunter Arms.

I have two fully marked Smith ordnance guns. One with USA-F; the other not. I have one with just the USA-F mark. All were made in 1942.

Daryl, pretty sure you are correct about Seattle being the home office location for Northern Commercial. One of the reasons I am familiar with HBC Northern Stores/North West Company is because they are based in my home town, Winnipeg, and I also knew people who worked for them.

All military use purchases for L.C. Smith shotguns went through Rochester Ordnance. The Government did not purchase "Specialty Grade" L.C. Smith shotguns.

From Serial Number 197,321 on May 9, 1942 to Serial Number 202,813 on April 9, 1943, Rochester Ordnance purchased the following grade L.C. Smith shotguns only, no more, no less:

Field Grade 1,477
Ideal Grade 20
Wild Foul 9

Being an ex military fighter pilot, although from another period in time, and having spoken with several of my pilot friends who did fly and train during WWII, I know of no military lead and lag training that took place with 20 gauge shotguns during WWII from any maker. I think the records bare this out quite conclusively.

Most likely the USA-F = UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - FULTON. Not documented and the people who actually applied those stamps are dead, so pot luck I would say.

Information available as of Spring, 2013 courtesy of Dr Jim Stubbendieck.

The Rochester Ordnance shotguns included 23 Ideal Grades and 1,512 Field Grades for a total of 1,535 side lock shotguns. Eight had the Wild Fowl option (usually 3-inch chambers and a reinforced barrel loop).

William Brophy did not mention that Fulton and Hunter Special box lock shotguns were also shipped to Rochester Ordnance. Fultons (507) and Hunter Specials (186) accounted for nearly a third of the 2,228 military shotguns.

Dr Jim found a 20 gauge Field and a .410 Fulton in the last RO order, but there was no indication in the records if they received the military markings. Possibly officer requisitions?

William Brophy's book is titled "L.C. Smith Shotguns"...why do you think he should mention, serialize or detail Fulton's and Hunter Specials...?.....

Most intelligent people understand what this book is about and why all the gun manufacturing totals are for L.C. Smith shotguns from Syracuse through Marlin, and not Fulton's and Hunter Specials.

The initial poster is asking specifically about an L.C. Smith shotgun barrel marking, not Fulton and Hunter Specials or the Naval gun parts that Hunter manufactured for the U.S. Navy, or any other drivel.

PA 24
Why ? Because Fulton boxlocks are included and a part of Hunter serialization, and most intelligent people have read this in both Brophy and Houchin's books.

Brophy briefly discusses Fulton, Fulton Special and Hunter Special shotguns on page 124. His Serial Numbers By Years on p. 207 "include all types of L.C. Smith, Fulton and Hunter Shotguns"

Most intelligent people enjoy learning.

Tom,
A thought--- how are other manufacturers' Ordnance guns stamped? Do they have the same "USA-F" stamp, or is the last digit something other than "F"? Perhaps Walt can answer this and shed some light.

Briefly is an "over statement" for sure....

Brophy also mentions the bolt action Rangers on the next page, very briefly though....LOL.....

Really glad you and Laxy are on top of it.....must be significant to someone...."keep up the good work"....

"must be significant to someone" who might purchase Dr Jim's new book and check page 114
http://bluebookofgunvalues.com/Products/Product_Detail.aspx?id=538

It's significant to those of us who wish to give intelligent responses to legitimate questions------

Guys
Although this mystery remains unresolved, many thanks the your contributions; and also for the lively side debate.
Tom