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Posted By: Humpty Dumpty Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 05/21/13 04:52 AM
I’m researching the story of Manton & Co Calcutta. Yes, I’m doing it for an article. I used to imagine that the person behind Manton and Co, Calcutta, was a Manton’s salesman in India, who collected a handful of orders and came back happy only to learn that Manton is bankrupt and there was nobody to execute these orders. A shrewd businessman, in this context, could try to have the guns made by other makers, and then return to deliver them only to find there were more orders at hand, so why not make it a regular business? I suggested this as a theme for an article, and the editor liked that. The reality, however, proved to be, erm, slightly different.

Here’s what I learned so far from the Web and the books available to me. The sources are numbered and given at the end of the post.

To begin with, there wasn’t a salesman. According to Teasedale-Buckell, Joe Manton sent his son Frederick to open a branch in Calcutta – in 1820, when the business was still going strong. [1] Then again, the bankruptcy doesn’t seem to have a connection to the establishment of the company, since Manton & Son was founded in 1825, and Joe Manton’s bankruptcy occurred later. Teasedale-Buckell gives 1829 as the year Joe was put to debt jail, but the first bankruptcy came in 1826; however, Joe Manton’s business was carried on and off afterwards. Finally, the bankruptcy wasn’t something that stopped Joe Manton in his tracks once and for all. According to Peter Hawker’s diaries, in 1829 the business was operating, even though ‘in the hands of the Philistines’ (external management?) Apparently, without old Joe’s eye, the quality diminished, as Hawker states that personal control was necessary to ensure that the job was done right [6]. So, there was someone to execute the orders, at least in the first years after Manton and Son (Manton and Co) foundation.

In 1825 Manton & Son is started in Calcutta [2], presumably by same Frederick Manton. This causes some confusion, as there was another Manton & Son establishment in London, but this was run by John, not Joseph, Manton. [5] I also found someone quoting John Blackmore's Gunmakers of London, that Manton & Son was founded by Frederick Manton, but managed by other sons of Joe Manton, John Augustus from 1828 to 33 and Edward from 1834 to 46. Curiously, John Augustus was also imprisoned for debt (runs in the family, heh?) in 1836. [7]

At some further point the firm was renamed Manton and Co, which may or may not be coincidal with a change in ownership. To quote Teasdale-Buckell, “The business of Manton and Co. was purchased by Mr. William Robert Wallis about the year 1847; he worked the business successfully until his retirement from India in 1878, when the same was taken over and is now worked by his sons. The firm has flourished, and has held the appointment of gunmakers to every Viceroy of India, and bears the highest reputation as the pioneer gunmakers in India.” [1: 286]

While Joseph Manton could be defined by the Boss slogan “maker of best guns only”, Manton and Son was different. They dealt not only in sporting firearms, but also officers’ swords and lance heads, a web search turns up lots of those marked Manton & Co. There’s one military musket bearing Manton and Co name – a very crude and cheap thing, actually - but the experts believe it to be a gun assembled in India off parts, and converted, perhaps for sporting purposes [4].

By the late XIX century Manton & Co apparently sold all kinds of weapons. They had their guns made for them in England, and also apparently in Germany [3], and, presumably, in Belgium. However, they could supply their client with the best gun, as testified by the fact that they were gunmakers to Viceroys of India, the fact they proudly stated on their guns [5]. Maharaja Cooch-Behar, a demanding customer and a Holland & Holland fan, writes that he had a couple of double rifles, a .450 and a .400 NE, made by Manton & Co, and describes them as “excellent weapons in every way and leave nothing to be desired” [9]

Apparently, by the XXth century, Manton & Co became a dealer of all kinds of weapons by catalogue. The content page of the 1926 catalogue (which can be had as a reprint, I don’t have it, only looked up the front page online – [11]) mentions weapons as diverсe as muzzleloaders and Mauser ‘broomhandle’ pistols. A recent article in African Hunting Gazette speaks about Manton & Co double rifles as solid, but plain workhorses [8]

The company is still in existence, but since the export of guns into India was banned in 1984, it doesn’t deal in firearms or ammunition [10].

There’s a curious lawsuit brought by Manton & Co against Indian government in 1965. Apparently, the government misunderstood the self-designation of ‘gunmaker’, and applied to the company the regulations which were normally applied to manufacturing plants. The company claimed that it did not in fact make any guns, and all their stuff of 46 were either office workers or gunsmiths employed for repair and maintenance of guns. [2] Incidentally, the same lawsuit mentions that the firm was transferred to Indian ownership after the country gained independence. Confiscated?

This is connected to the question if Manton and Son, in their early days, had a production unit in India, or it was a trading operation only. The general opinion is that they never made any guns themselves [8], and the data from the lawsuit supports that, at least within the breechloading period. But what about the early days, when a gunmaker didn’t need either to have a steam engine for making actions etc. or to outsource from one which had?

It could be assumed, that in 1820s Joe Manton already experienced financial difficulties, and probably the decision to explore the Indian market and sending Frederick there was prompted by the same reasons. But which market was meant – one for sporting weapons, or for military ones? Was there an attempt of catering for the needs of East India Company regiments, ensuring orders locally – or was it a sporting gun business from the start? Militaria and generally weapons designed for killing [censored] sapiens are out of the field of my interest, so I am at a loss here.

And, then again, why did the company with Joe Manton’s name took hold in India but not in Britain? That was certainly not due to lack of trying, for they kept a London address. But it didn’t seem to work out.

Was it that the British consumer was more sophisticated and well-read than an Indian expat?

Or did Manton & Co manage to gain a stronghold in India before the confusing news about Joe Manton being out then back in then out again reached the subcontinent?

A risk that paid off, with the Indian consumers having no alternative than to go to Manton and Co, no matter what they thought or had read?

Or was it that the product they offered was nothing special in England but a rare and valuable commodity in India?

Whatever the reason, it goes to show that having a good name is not enough. It’s satisfying the customer that counts.

That’s about all I know. Any additions, comments or corrections are welcome. Especially suggestions on where to read on sport in colonial India, which could help to reconstruct the profile of a Manton & Son / Manton & Co consumer in 1820, etc. Calcutta.

Thank you for your attention.

References and proof links:
1. G. T. Teasedale-Buckell, Experts on Guns and Shooting, 1901
2, - http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/1252857/
3 - http://www.thegungeek.com/SGP/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=8913
4 - http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/14467#.USxllZZKBjs
5 Hawker, Instructions to Young Sportsmen, 1844 edition.
6. Colonel Hawker’s Diaries, Vol. 1 p. 366
7. http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-67782.html
8 - http://www.africanhuntinggazette.com/wie...the-manton-name
9. Maharajah of Cooch Behar. Thirty seven years of big game shooting.
10 - http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=196910&an=0&page=3
11. http://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/item_desc.php?item_id=473
Posted By: PeteM Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 05/21/13 01:08 PM
The firm of Manton & Co was reportedly established in 1825 in Calcutta, the capital of India at the time. The firm later claimed to have been established as J Manton & Co in 1828, and this claim may be more accurate because it is likely that Frederick Manton was sent out to India in 1825 but the firm was established only in 1828. He may not have gone on his own, Charles Manton may have accompanied him; Joseph later recorded Charles as owing him £2500. Whatever the facts, the firm was established in India partly because by 1825 Joseph Manton's business was in serious financial difficulties (see Joseph Manton of London), and partly because the market in India was seen to be very large.
It is generally assumed that Frederick was sent to India by Joseph, but it is more than likely that John Manton was involved in the decision because he was able to give the necessary financial help, if not to his brother, then certainly to Frederick and Charles, who were his nephews. The firm of Manton & Co appears to have been a joint venture between John Manton and Joseph, or John Manton and his nephews, or even John Manton acting on his own as sole proprietor.

Establishing the business in Calcutta would have taken money and a stock of guns and equipment which Joseph, being virtually penniless, would have been unable to supply. The luxury gun market in India was large, but the majority of people wanted soundly made reliable guns, and by far the majority of these were Birmingham made. It would appear that John provided most of the funding and most of the stock. Not only did Manton & Co buy Birmingham guns so, some years after John Manton died in 1835, did John Manton & Sons, and many were exported to the USA and elsewhere. All Manton & Co's guns were engraved "London" including, towards the end of the century, some that had been made in Germany and Liege, Belgium.

It is stated in the authoritative book "The Manton Supplement" by W Keith Neal and D H L Back, that a letter was written by Manton & Co in about 1900 which said that "Frederick Manton was sent to India by his uncle [John] to start the firm in Calcutta. On the death of his uncle all the books connected with the firm of Joseph Manton were sent to India. These have been entirely destroyed by white ants. The most valuable book was the stock book, from which we could trace for whom any gun bearing the name of Joseph Manton was originally made, but even this has been destroyed. We now have in our posession the several weapons mentioned in the enclosed list. These were also sent to India when Mr Joseph Manton died. The pair of flint pistols were presented to the senior partner of the firm by an old constituent."

In 1828 John Augustus Manton went out to India to take over the firm, but whether he was sent by Joseph or John Manton or both, is not known. Frederick returned to England, Charles Manton may have returned at the same time. In 1833 Joseph wanted John Augustus to return from India to help him establish a new business in London. John Manton was very much opposed to the idea but John Augustus did return, and John Manton sent his son, Edward, out to replace him. It may be that at this date or in 1835 Edward was "given" Manton & Co, this seems certainly seems possible because in November 1834 in John Manton's will he stated "Whereas I have already provided for my daughter Mrs Stokes and my son Edward Manton I give devise and bequeath ... all my real and personal estate and Effects ... to my son George Henry Manton ... ". On the other hand, if Manton & Co in Calcutta was a joint venture between John Manton and Joseph, or John Manton and Joseph and his sons, it is possible that in 1833 Joseph and John Augustus sold their share in Manton & Co to John Manton and used the proceeds to finance the Holles Street firm.

In any event, Manton & Co were established at 10 Lall Bazaar, Calcutta, which was named the Pioneer Gun and Rifle Works.

In 1837 Edward Manton moved the firm to 63 Cossitolla Street.

In 1846 the firm was sold to William Robert Wallis, and Edward Manton returned to England. William Wallis may well have worked for the firm as assistant and or manager, he certainly appears to have been resident in Calcutta before he took over the firm.

In 1859 William bought the firm of Samuel Nock of 116 Jermyn Street, London. The purpose of this purchase was simply to establish a London agent and address for the firm.

In 1864 Samuel Nock ceased trading under its own name and was incorporated into Manton & Co. At this time W R Wallis (W R Wallis (I)) lived a shot distance down the road from the shop at 93 Cossitollah Street. Living with him was his son, also named W R Wallis (William (II)) who was described as his assistant. C T Wallis who, perhaps, was William's brother, lived at 63 Cossitollah Street.

By 1872 the firm had moved to 70 Bentinck Street and W R Wallis (I) had died or retired and returned to England. The firm was run by William (II) with A H Wallis (his brother?) acting as his assistant. The previous 26 years had been hugely successful but the next 50 were to be even better. The European population of India increased tremendously and Indian nobility continued to buy guns in quantity. From the mid 1880s the costs of manufacturing guns in England may have forced the closure of many small firms, but the larger manufacturers had few problems.

In 1874 William (II) was in England on leave. A H Wallis was running the business with W Holmes as his assistant. By this time the firm had established a shooting gallery (rifle range) in South Road, Entally.

In 1876 William (II)was back in Calcutta and A H Wallis became a partner; F L Wallis (a third brother?)was his assistant.

In 1877 the firm moved to 13 Old Court House Street, Dalhousie Square, they had additional premises at 1 Mangoe Lane which were used for workshops and storage. In 1878 William went back to England.

In 1880 the Wallis brothers moved to live at 20 British Indian Street, and the rifle range moved to Tiljullah, South Road, Entally. This was where the two younger Wallis brothers lived. In that year K Ferguson was taken on as an assistant.

In 1883 the partners were recorded as A H Wallis and F L Wallis, the assistants were A Farquhar and J C Rodrigues. The firm's private rifle range was recorded as 18 Tiljullah Road, Entally, and a branch had been opened in Simla. In the hot summer months Simla was the seat of Viceroy and headquarters of the government and the army. How long the firm maintained a shop in Simla is unknown, it may have stayed open until about 1919.

The Calcutta International Exhibition was held from 4 December 1883 to 10 March 1884 to promote the arts, crafts and industries of India. At this time the firm described themselves as gun, rifle and revolver manufacturers and importers of sporting equipment. They were agents for the Calcutta Gun Club.

In 1886 the firm's London agents were recorded for the first time, they were H Birdseye & Co of Gracechurch Street. In this year the firm became agents for W W Greener and representatives of Alexander Henry.

In 1889 the firm became agents for the Schultze Gunpowder Co, the Rhenish Westphalian Gunpowder Co, and C T Brock & Co (pyrotechnists) (firework manufacturers), they also became representatives for Westley Richards & Co Ltd. Their London agents were recorded as Alex Birdseye & Co of 5 St Benets Place, Gracechurch Street.

In 1890 the firm's rifle range moved to 18 Teeljallah Road.

In 1892 A H Wallis was recorded with the title of "Honourable" which derived from his election to the Bengal Legislative Council.

In 1894 the Wallis brothers were living at 1 Mangoe Lane.

In 1896 the firm took on an additional assistant, E D'Costa, in 1898 he left and was replaced by E Entwhistle.

In 1899 the rifle range moved to 88 Teeljullah Road and the assistants were recorded as A Farquhar, Frank H Harrison and J C Rodrigues. Frank Harrison had been apprenticed to P Webley & Sons.

In 1900 A H Wallis and Frank Harrison appear to have gone to England on leave. In 1901 A Farquhar was made a partner, and an additional assistant was taken on by the firm, M Echlin, but in 1902 he was replaced by G E Gold. In 1904 W Medland was employed as an assistant. In 1907 A H Wallis was on leave in London and the firm was run by F L Wallis. Frank Harrison was made a partner, Douglas E Whitehouse was recruited as an assistant. Herbert & Co of Bedford Street, Covent Garden were the firm's London agents.

In 1910 the assistants were recorded as J C Rodrigues, H A Philips, J Henderson, E C Taylor and A James Brown.

In 1911 A H Wallis was recorded back in Calcutta. A James Brown was recorded as a partner, and J D Campbell had joined the firm as an assistant. The following year saw the partners recorded as A H Wallis, F L Wallis, A James Brown and F H Harrison. A R Gibbs was recorded as an extra assistant.

In 1913 the firm's offices were recorded as being on the 1st floor of 1 Mangoe Lane, and the rifle range was recorded at 1 Tiljullah Road. A H Wallis was back in England, the assistants were H A Phillips, J D Campbell, J C Rodrigues and E C Taylor. In this year an extra assistant, W J A Martins had been taken on, but he was replaced the next year by C T Smith. Another important event which took place in 1913 was the opening of a branch in Kashmir Gate, Delhi; one report states that that that the branch was opened in 1935, and Manton's catalogue of 1926/7 suggests that the branch was opened in 1926, but neither report is correct.

In 1915 both the Wallis brothers appear to have been on leave and A W Danter was recorded as an assistant. In 1916 F R Danter and R M Lyons were employed by the firm as assistants. The other assistants were listed as H A Phillips, J D Campbell, Gibbs, and J C Rodrigues.

In 1917 the firm became agents for the Calcutta Royal Golf Club. In this year the firm recorded Frank Harrison and A James Brown as "Indian Partners" which may mean that they participated in the profits of the main shop in Calcutta and the branches in Simla and New Delhi, but not in the profits earned on buying goods to be sent to India.

In 1918 Alec Marsh was appointed manager of the Calcutta shop, but Frank Harrison and James Brown were still in India.

In 1919 it appears the Wallis brothers business to Frank Harrison and James Brown.

In 1920 J D Campbell was the manager of the Delhi shop, he was assisted by W A Jones.

The 1920s in the English gun trade were very difficult because there were few young men left alive to buy guns, raw materials were again in short supply, and labour costs and other problems culminated in the general strike of 1926. In 1929 the Wall Street Crash was followed by the Great Depression. In India the 1920s were good times, and it was only in the 1930s that businesses became concerned about the future. In the event, the depression very largely passed them by.

In 1921 M Donaldson was appointed manager of the Calcutta shop and S G Bearcock was appointed accountant.

In 1921 the firm developed their "Contractile" bullet. This bullet was intended to compete with Holland & Holland's "Paradox" bullet, Lyon & Lyon's "Lethal Ball", and R B Rodda's "Rotax" bullet. These bullets were designed mainly for use against dangerous soft-skinned game. The rifled choke of the Paradox threw slightly imperfect patterns when shot cartridges were used because of damage to shot which came into contact with the rifling. This caused "flyers". The Contractile bullets (as well as the Rotax and Lethal Ball) were made for use in smooth-bored shotguns with or without a small degree of choke, but no rifling of any kind. The contractile bullet had a muzzle velocity of about 1200 fps and a muzzle energy of 1420 ft lbs. It was spherical and made of lead but it had a hollow centre filled with a heavy liquid compound (probably containing mercury!). This lead sphere was waxed and then covered by a thin pierced lead outer shell. On firing, the wax melted and lubricated the barrel, and the shell deformed to a round-nosed slightly cylindrical shape. On impact, the movement of the compound in the sphere assisted in expansion of the bullet.

By about 1921 and in addition to the firms mentioned, Manton & Co were agents or representatives for James Purdey & Son, Holland & Holland, John Rigby, and E J Churchill. J D Campbell was the manager of the Delhi shop, he was assisted by W A Jones. The firm's London agents were Herber & Co.

In 1923 J D Campbell and M Donaldson were made partners in the firm; A Perks took over the management of the Delhi branch. only two assistants were recorded, A Livingstone and T Canham.

There is a report that from about 1923 to 1930 Joseph Beale worked for the firm, but he does not appear to have been recorded. He was previously with Cogswell & Harrison as a stocker, and after leaving India joined Hammond Brothers of Winchester.

In 1924 J D Campbell left the firm, retired or died. V Savage and J Livingstone joined T Canham as assistants.

In 1926 G M Howe joined the firm as an assistant, he had previously been employed by R B Rodda & Co.

In 1928 the partners in the firm were still James Brown and M Donaldson; the assistants were T Canham, V Savage and one new assistant, T Bouckley.

In 1931 the sole proprietor of the firm was James Brown. The assistants were still T Canham, V Savage and T Bouckley. By this time the firm's rifle range was at Mandalpara Road, Behala.

In 1933 the firm's shop was still at 13 Old Courthouse Street but the office was at 15-1 Old Courthouse Street. The workshops and storerooms were still at 1 Mangoe Lane. J V Beale was employed as an extra assistant. By 1934 the office had moved to 13-2 Old Courthouse Street.

In 1935 the assistants were listed as T Canham, T Bouckley, J Fisher, T Dobson and D Fox.

In 1937 James Brown appears to have died because the firm's partners were listed as Mrs G K Brown and M Donaldson, and D A Brown (son of James and G K Brown?) had joined as an assistant. Also listed as an assistant was D J Todd; he had worked as an assistant with R B Rodda and Co from 1912 to 1923 and in 1929 he was recorded working for Lyon & Lyon. When Lyon & Lyon was sold in 1934 to the owner of R B Rodda & Co, D J Todd moved to Rodda. He worked for Manton & Co from 1937 to 1943.

In 1946 everyone knew that India would shortly become an independent country, but they did not know what changes that would bring. In 1947 the firm was sold to Ramnath Bajora. The new owner described himself as a "Gun, Rifle, Revolver and Sword Manufacturer". Over the next few years he continued trading but the loss of European customers and new restrictions on imports and gun ownership affected trade badly. In about 1957 the firm described themselves as "Gun, Rifle, Revolver and Sword Manufacturers, Distributors of German made unlicensed Diana air guns".

There are reports that the business closed at some time after 1966, and that Ron Dufty bought the name, but there are other reports that a firm by the name of Manton & Co was trading up to about 2001.

Manton & Co held appointments to His Royal Highness The Duke of Edinburgh, His Excellency The Viceroy, etc.

Other Info
The firm sold cartridges under the names "Double Brass" (post 1910), "Deep Brass", "Standard", "Tiger Brand" (post 1927), "Red Smokeless" (post 1927), the "For India" (made both in Great Britain and in Bavaria in about 1910!) and the "Contractile".
Much detailed information on the Manton family and their guns is contained in the books "The Mantons" and "The Manton Supplement" by W Keith Neal and D H L Back.

Frederick Manton returned to England but almost immediately emigrated to Australia. He returned to England briefly in 1838. Back in Australia in 1840, he went into partnership with Thomas Walker in the firm of Manton & Walker in Melbourne. At this time he appears to have been fairly wealthy. By 1843 he had emigrated to South America, eventually returning to Sydney. He died in Sydney in 1863. His great-grandson lives in Canberra.

A Mr Manton, probably Henry, arrived in Australia in 1830. He was granted land at Cavan, near Yass, New South Wales, but eventually moved to Sydney. When his bank went into liquidation he became insolvent. It is believed he worked as a stocker until he died.

John Augustus Manton emigrated to Australia in 1838 after Joseph Manton & Son was sold to the Eggs. He went to Frederick's farm near Yass. He too became insolvent when his bank went into liquidation. His great-great-grandson lives in Sydney.

Charles Manton left England for Australia in January 1839 on the same boat as Frederick.

Frank Harrison was best friends with Reg Leeson of R B Rodda & Co. He retired in about 1926 lived at Burgess Hill near Brighton. When Reg Leeson was nearing retirement he lived in Brighton and he and Frank Harrison had a shoot on the Downs behind Brighton.

1828


1859-1878


1878-1920


1940


All the above is from the Internet Gun Club.

Pete
Posted By: Humpty Dumpty Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 05/22/13 01:14 AM
Thanks, Pete. That's a wealth of information. I wasn't aware of the John Manton connection.

The letter about Joe Manton's books being sent to India on his death was apparently written to Teasedale-Buckell and is reproduced in the Manton chapter of "Experts on Guns and Shooting". It runs " We regret we have no likeness of the late Joseph Manton, nor of his nephew, Mr. Frederick Manton, who was sent by his uncle to start the firm in Calcutta". Funny that the letter gives Frederick as the son of John, not Joseph (or was there a third brother?). Confusing family, these Mantons.

I'd also question the date of the founding of the company in 1828. The lawsuit (http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/1252857/) states the date of foundation as 1825; although it is human to err, a company's lawyer could hardly be expected to go wrong in this, no?
Posted By: PeteM Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 05/22/13 03:28 PM
I would trust your research more than what I posted. I think looking at the occupation of India during this time frame may provide more insight. For instance, what was the relationship of the Manton's to the East India company?

Pete
Posted By: Roy Hebbes Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 05/22/13 11:52 PM
Humpty Dumpty,
In my Collection I have a sporting book published in Calcutta in 1905.This book contains a Manton and Co; trade add. The add states that the business was established in 1825.
The add states that that they are gunmakers by special appointment to:
H.E.LORD CURZON of Kedleston
and to
H.E.LORD KITCHENER,C-in-C.
The ADDRESS GIVEN IS:
13,Old Court House Street Calcutta.
The add confirms that they are makers and importers of "RELIABLE FISHING TACKLE."

It is my understanding that the Manton guns listed in the book Experts on Guns and Shooting,as being in the Manton shop in Calcutta, where still there in the 1950-60s,and in fact were purchased by Westley Richards.

The November 22-28 1979 edition of the British Magazine," Shooting Times", includes an article by the late Geoffrey Boothroyd,,"Manton & Co; Calcutta." The article includes reprints from a 1909 Manton & Co; catalogue that ran to 111 pages.
Posted By: Craig Havener Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 05/23/13 12:21 AM
The best source of data I have found is "The Manton Gunmakers"
By Neal And Back.
Best,
Craig
Posted By: Humpty Dumpty Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 05/24/13 02:59 AM
Thank you all!

Too bad neither the Neal and Back nor the Boothroyd article are available as e-books online. Apparently, one ought to be located in London if one wishes to research these issues smile

I've come across a few more interesting old books at archives.org, though. Will be working with them.

Most of the Indian shooting books I came across so far deal with the Raj (post-1858) period, and that's a bit too late for what I'm interested in. However, some of those reveal the market niche for Manton & Co and other companies in this line. Stories of colonial hunters who brought some weapons along but found the battery incomplete or imperfect. One such character thought he could do tiger shooting with two 12 bore pinfires, a 5-dram double rifle and a shotgun shooting a round ball over 3 drams of powder for backup. In the jungle, he found the latter weapon inadequate, not to mention the confusion between the cartridges. He overcame the difficulty by writing to the gunmaker to send him another 12 bore DR exactly like the first, but next season found himself in a definite disadvantage for want of a long-range stalking rifle. A visit to Manton & Co, provided they had a big stock of most commonly used guns, could have saved him much disappointment; however, this particular chap stuck to the belief that a quality firearm could be had only in London.
Posted By: Humpty Dumpty Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 07/02/13 08:27 AM
Found nothing new about Manton & Co, but stumbled upon an anecdote about Joe Manton, which I can't help sharing:

When Joe was crossing Hounslow Heath in a chaise late one winter's afternoon, he was stopped by a highwayman. On hearing the summons to "stand and deliver", Manton looked hastily out of the window and recognised a pistol of his own make levelled at his head. "Why damn it, you rascal," cried the indignant gunmaker, "I'm Joe Manton, and that's one of my pistols you've got. How dare you to rob me!"

"Oh! you're Joe Manton, are you?" said the highwayman coolly. "Well, you charged me ten guineas for this brace of pistols, which I call a damned swindle, though I admit they're a good pair of barkers. Now I mean to be quits with you. Hand me over ten guineas, and I'll let you go because you're Joe Manton, though I know you've got fifty pounds at least about you!"

Joseph swallowed his wrath and promptly paid the ten guineas. But he never forgave the highwayman for getting a brace of his best pistols for nix, and he made himself a special double gun, with barrels barely two feet long, which he always carried about with him afterwards when travelling, and christened "The Highwayman's Master". With this weapon I have heard that he subsequently shot a highwayman who stopped his chaise and mortally wounded him.


From "Kings of the Rod, Rifle and Gun" by "Thormanby", London, 1901
Posted By: Humpty Dumpty Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 07/15/13 01:40 AM
Almost a miracle how Joe could have got himself bancrupt, owing as much as 20,000 pounds http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/3...eld-on-saturday

That is, besides gunmaking, he got quite a bit of land with his wife, which was used for an urban development project, i.e. building and letting houses. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=50006#n154

Manton's contracts for East India Company are regularily mentioned, but I can't find any details yet.
Posted By: Humpty Dumpty Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 11/13/13 04:11 AM
A question for people familiar with old English game law. Would the land that Joe Manton got with his wife qualify him for a hunting certificate?

Between 1776 and 1832, one had to own a land which brought at least 100 poinds of income a year, or lease land which brought at least 150. Under the circumstances, I don't think there were many gunmakers in the period who could shoot. If Joe did, it would certainly give him an edge over the competition, in better understanding of what is required from a sporting gun.

It's known that Joe Manton went shooting at least once, in 1827 with Col. Hawker, as reflected in Hawker's diaries. But, knowing Hawker's attitude to game laws, he could have well let Joe shoot without a certificate.
Posted By: lagopus Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 11/13/13 11:12 AM
I have a couple of spare Trade labels form the 1878 to 1920 period as above and would be happy to send you one if you wish. I am unable to access my computer for a couple of weeks but if you leave me a message I will get back to you upon my return.

Lord Curzon at Kedleston was the last Viceroy to India. The Kedleston Estate is just 3 miles from where I live.

I'm not sure about the legislation at that time but I don't think land ownership was an issue at that point I think all it required was a Game License. There were various Game Acts brought in in 1828 and 1830. You should be able to search under Game Act 1828 and Game Act 1830. If you are still stuck on that one I can go into it in more depth when I am back on line. Lagopus.....
Posted By: Humpty Dumpty Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 11/13/13 11:57 AM
Lagopus, thank you very much. The point is I've done research on this topic, for my September column which was about English Game Laws, and land ownership was required all the way until January 1832. I have a few old books (thank Google, Project Gutenberg and www.archive.org - where would I be without those!) which argue very eloquently about the injustice of that.
Posted By: Pete Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 07/29/20 03:19 AM
I just picked up a Manton 20 Ga ejector gun serial 77305 in beautiful condition. I wonder if anyone has a mfg date for this little wand?
Pete
Posted By: Argo44 Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 07/29/20 03:52 AM
As a matter of interest...

7 April 1826 article from "The Morning Advertiser" - the auctioning of Manton's goods after bankruptcy.



Joseph Lang bought everything. (What the heck did Joseph Manton do with a canon rifling machine? And why did Lang buy it?
Posted By: Pete Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 07/29/20 05:43 AM
The story I heard about the bankruptcy was that it was due to Manton making guns to the new caplock system(s) and neglecting to pay a patent fee. Oops
Posted By: GLS Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 07/29/20 10:21 AM
Skeeterbd posted his Skimin & Wood 2" 12 that had been bought by his eldest uncle's FIL at Manton's shop in Calcutta. Skeeterbd lives in as he describes "a forgotten part of Asia." Gil
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=355882
Posted By: greener4me Re: Researching Manton &Co, Calcutta. - 07/30/20 07:21 PM
Joseph Manton's clientele would have been predominantly, if not entirely, composed of the "Gentry".
Methinks it naive to think that this customer base were prompt payers...if at all or better late than never type. It would be a ticklish affair to try and extract the readies from this class and the risks attached to "name and shame" do not bear thinking about !

Nothing changes !
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