I'm looking at a 12ga Ithaca grade 4 with a demascas barrel, case color pretty much gone, nice engraving with beautiful wood and checkering pattern. Seems in good shape, about $2000. But I know nothing about these Ithacas. I would appreciate advice thanks.
Pooch, is it the one on the rack at the store in which you work?
Well, I was the one who had that shotgun shipped there. But from where I can't remember. I wanted to put my hands on it and see for myself. As best I can recall, it was a 5 digit Crass grade 4. Absolutely beautiful engraving. The cut barrels didn't bother me so much, as the fact that the chambers had been lengthened to 3". Ouch. Being a Crass model, I don't know if it would have come from Ithaca with long chambers. Probably 2 5/8", but I'm no expert. It was once, and still may be a nice gun. It's nice to look at for sure.
Likely Joe Loy engraved. Can you post a few photos?
Must not be on the Cabela's website. I searched Ithaca and the only Grade 4 double is a NID.
Long chambers and cut barrel yuk. I've looked at the gun but not seriously. I'll need to measure the chambers and barrel. I sure didn't pick up on that cut barrel. They are knocking down the prices on guns that have been non movers. So I got interested.
Whats a fluts and whats a NID?
There are three Ithaca grade 4s on Guns America. One has been restocked and two are more original. This one looks the same as the two originals, but is a little nicer.
Crass, Flutes, NID are all different models. If it has cut barrels and lengthened chambers, point that out and offer 800 - get it for a grand.
This may or may not work, but if someone knows how to claen this up so the link works, great. It is at the Cabela's in Allen, TX.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Gun-Library/Allen-Gun-Library%7C/pc/103792680/c/109186380/IthacaCrass-Grade-4-SXS-In-12-Gauge/1334014.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fgun-library-allen-gun-library%2F_%2FN-1105211%2FNo-40%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNP%26recordsPerPage%3D40
Here is the item/stock number:
Ithaca/Crass, Grade 4 SXS In 12 Gauge
Caliber:
Reference #: 2532665
Price: $2,299.99
Well, it works if you copy and paste the link on your browser, but not as a direct link.
Flues not flutes. Was a lighter weight game gun by Ithaca. The name Flues comes from the designer, Emil Flues, who worked for Ithaca from approx. 1906-1915. Little known secret- there were more Flues produced than any single model of double barrel made in the US. Couldn't stand up to the high pressured shot shells produced in the 20s.
I have always ignored the Ithaca SXS that was a mistake. The flues guns are worth a second look.
I worked for a while in the Gun Library. No body laughs. Didn't like it there and went back to hunting where we are always kidding around. I bought some guns at the library very cheap. They were priced wrong. Now every thing I touch gets scrutinized and at times the price marked up. The possibility of me negotiating on a price is zip.
Crass, Flutes, NID are all different models. If it has cut barrels and lengthened chambers, point that out and offer 800 - get it for a grand.
Flutes are wind instruments. Ithaca built more doubles on a design that was the brain child of gunmaker Emil Flues, after whom those guns are named, than on any other design (Crass, Lewis, NID, etc).
Woops . . . redundant post on Flues, following Pooch.
You can also get to that specific gun via the Cabela's website, Gun Library, hit American shotguns, then Allen TX. However . . . I could not get the photos to do anything other than remain postage stamp size. Love the description of the double triggers: "non-selective". I can't pick whichever one I want???
The Ithaca is quite nice, but the barrel is only 26 1/4 inches. A rough choke measurement puts the right barrel at cyl and the left at a light modified. I don't think it's been cut cause of the choke in the left barrel. I thought the the short barrel craze came in the 1920s and expect barrels made before that to be longer. The chambers are definitely cut to three inches. I assume this gun to be made in the last years of the 19th century so I don't know whether the original chambers were 2 3/4 or 2 1/2. It's a nice gun, but in my opinion a flawed gun and at $2200 one has to ask ones self if this is really what he wants.
Can you post its serial number?
Worth 2K for the engraving...maybe a little more if it's Loy engraving with sculptured breech balls.
Serial no on the Ithaca Gr4 is 36596. The more I see of the gun the more I like it. I can't afford it so don't hesitate for my sake.
My knowledge of Ithaca SxS guns is so weak I'm embarrassed, but to my uneducated eye it looks pretty decent.
I have two Crass grade 4s. One is an early Loy engraved gun with sculpted breech balls and the second a later 2 barrel set. They are a joy to behold and have truly exquisite engraving. They are two of my favorites. Both were under a grand on well traveled websites. As much as I would like to add a third to the pile, I have a hard time paying over xxxx for a gun with major cuts or modifications. But hey I wouldn't let mine go for what I might pay for them either !
Lists as a 26 inch 4E. It is a 1899 gun so probably Latham engraved and probably no sculpted breech balls. Still an early 4E. I can't get its photos to come up.
Thank you for the information Mr. Snyder. I though with the odd extra 1/8" measurement, that the barrels had been cut. Maybe I need to read it with a different tape? Anyway, that's why I like reading on this board. There is such a wealth of information. It may be worth another look?
Your tape may have been correct. I have seen some early guns 1/8 off the listed length. That's why one look at the book is worth a ton of speculation.
Robert Runge senior was at Ithaca around this time. I have a great Grade 4E that junior Runge said engraved by dad. Sure wish I could get the photos up of Cabelas 4E.
...a few photos to follow if the link works...
http://imgur.com/jNYxrv7http://imgur.com/kU9YDL4http://imgur.com/TzyuSfkhttp://imgur.com/bPOIILahttp://imgur.com/yC7XBzRI have other photos, but does anyone know how to make imgur.com photos come up as a direct link, instead of having to click on eack individual one? I just switched to imgur from photobucket.
Ok. I found out myself how to do it. More photos to follow.
Pretty gun. Thanks for sharing.
OWD
RedofTx, I see the gun is listed as sold. Did you buy it? Hope so, anyway I can sleep tonight without worrying about buying it. Thanks for the good photos. A nice gun.
Yes sir, Mr. Snyder, it is now in my safe. After you verified the barrel length, which I thought was cut, I went and made a deal. Do you have any idea of the engraver? Need more or better photos?
There's a large 'L' shaped out of the grass blades ahead of the dog on the right side. 'Latham' for an 1899 gun?
Well I hate see the gun go but am happy the temptation no longer exists. I love those barrels and often wondered why no one had bought that gun. Now that you can scrutinize the gun more closely, what do you think of it?
A fine example. RedofTx can be very proud of it.
It's good to see it go to an appreciative owner.
