With all of the interest in new Dickinsons, I thought this might be appropriate as all of these guns below are offered from the same maker.

Turkey doesn't exactly have the best reputation for quality guns but they are up and coming. A company by the name of AKUS is leading the way. This gun maker has contracted with several larger companies to produce guns under each company's own name. They built the Hatfield "London" sidelock. They built the Elite lineup of SXSs and O/Us for Smith & Wesson. They built the Marias (O/U) and Valier (SXS) sidelocks for Kimber. And now they are building sidelocks for Webley & Scott.

These guns are not your typical Turkish doubles.

The sidelock SXSs are built on a 7-pin Holland & Holland sidelock style action.... with ejector or extractors. They are stocked with grade 3 Turkish Walnut (with the option to upgrade to GRADE 4 or 5). They are oil-finished and hand-checkered to 24 lines per inch. Full checkered butts come standard. The actions have bone-charcoal case hardening giving them beauitul colors. The internals are nicely polished and attractive. Scroll engraving is at 25% coverage. These guns are also available with rounded actions. These were first brought in as the Hatfield "London", then Kimber "Valier", and now as the Webley & Scott "3000".


The over/unders are back-action sidelocks. Not sure of the inspirtation for the design but a review mentioned, along with the AKUS website, H&H... maybe their new Sporter O/U? Regardless, the O/U is available in game and clay versions. This was first offered as the Kimber Marias and now offered as the Webley & Scott 3000.

The boxlock SXS is not your typical Anson & Deeley action but is a rounded trigger plate action (according to one review, it was designed by an engineer from Kimber... apparently they had a deal with AKUS to build the boxlock, but it fell through and S&W picked up where they left off... who knows?). This gun was first brought in as the S&W Elite and now as the Dickinsons.

The options are all bespoke and nearly endless: engraving, wood grade, grip and forend, stock dimensions, barrel lengths and chambers, triggers, chokes (fixed or thinwalled), weight, ribs, and finish types for both metal and wood.

Here you can view a new catalog of all the guns (and options) now being offered from Akus

http://www.akus.com.tr/huglu-Av-Tufekleri/ing/products.asp



These were the prices emailed to me from Commando Arms who is the main distributor for AKUS in Europe.

"Prestige" SXS Sidelock 20 or 16ga_____Ejector - $2249_____Extractor - $1999




Grade 10 SXS (didn't get this price)


"Prestige II" O/U 20ga Sidelock Ejector - $2799


Grade 10 O/U (didnt get this price either)






"Elite" SXS Boxlock 12,16,20ga_____Ejector - $999_____ Extractor $829_____

Super nice, thanks for your research and sharing the information here Adam....!...

So WHO is going to be the importer for these guns into the U.S...?.........Adam, I think you can add another 30-40% to those prices by the time the importer and middle men collect their fees..........

Best,

A few more photos....

First the Turks whipped the British at Gallipoli. Now a "Webley & Scott" smoothbore is made in Anatolia. Sic transit gloria mundi. Farewell Old Albion!

J.K.B. von Falkenhorst

Or maybe, "the sun just don't shine on the same dog's a** all the time.

Thanks for posting, Adam

SRH

Nice guns if you're looking for a boat paddle....

The issue here, I think, will be the comparative quality of higher grade guns, and how reliable they are based on significant use. The Turks have succeeded in establishing themselves in a price range of about $1500 or less. What they have yet to do is convince very many Americans that buying a $5K or up Turkish gun is a wise decision. The Valiers did not sell very well. The Ruffed Grouse Society bought a bunch of them for banquet/life sponsor guns and had a lot of trouble getting rid of them. The high dollar Marias OU got a pretty negative review in Shooting Sportsman, from either Bruce Buck or Vic Venters (can't remember which). Thus it still remains in question whether they can compete against established Spanish sidelocks in the new sxs market. But then it took the Spanish some time to establish themselves in that market, and the Turks may eventually get there.

Thanks! I paddled mine all the way to South Africa and back and it never missed a stroke







Heck, I have even paddled it around the US a fair amount.


A limit of sharptail over my pup this year.


Sage Grouse


Prairie Chicken


Woodcock


Ruffed Grouse


Pheasant


Gambels Quail


Scaled Quail

I also have taken Huns and several duck species with it over the past few years. That gun has been one of the best handling guns I ever bought. I would sell all my guns before that one if it ever came down to it. I have carried it enough to wear the case color off. It has thousands of rounds through it without ever missing a beat. This includes the dirty shooting crap we shot in Africa. Looked like you were shooting black powder when you touched off a round.

Hi All:

This is great news! Welcome new kid on the block! I get a hoot out of people who condemns a product without ever handling one let alone see one! Lol

Wburns,What breed of dog is the fuzzy faced beauty? If the gun worked well for you and you are satisfied, then what do you care if some person does not like it? Enjoy the gun!!!!

Good luck all,

Franchi

History has a lot to do with how I feel about guns. I've a hankering for the American classics that I can't extend to later ones. I respect Turkey, and haven't forgotten their extraordinary valour in the Korean war. I don't think there was a single Turkish POW. I wish them well with their guns.

Hi Franchi, Lakota is a German Wirehair Pointer. I have two of them (Lakota and Daisy). She is only a year old, but so far this year in addition to duck hunting with her, I have shot Huns, Sharptail, Sage Grouse, Ruffed Grouse, Woodcock, and pheasant over her. She will make a trip to KS and AZ yet this year so I hope to get a few quail over her as well.

I agree, if the gun works for you, who cares. I have a few higher grade guns, but when it comes to hunting, its either this one or my Dickson I grab if I need to put meat on the table.

I have quite a few S X S's and I feel the same about my 20 S & W......I wear gloves, so no case color wear, but it sure is a nice handling gun for the few thousand rounds that I've fired through it..........and it will shoot anything you put in it............That is why I bought another one in 16 gauge.........

If it is lost, stolen or damaged for those of us that travel around the world, it can be replaced with another new one for less than a King's Ransom........

They are winners.......

King, if I recall correctly, there WERE Turkish PW's. Not many of them, of course, compared to Americans, but there weren't that many Turks there either, total, in comparison to Americans. What I think you're remembering is that as captives, none of the Turks broke faith with their fellow PW's. Sadly, that was not the case with American PW's in Korea. At least that's the story I recall being told when we in the American military had to memorize the Code of Conduct, which came about because of the Korean War experience.

W Burns,

Is that pup a Drahthaar or a Griffon?

Read the book "Soldier" by col. Anthony Herbert. He was an army grunt in Korea and got hooked up with the Turks when he lost contact with his outfit. What happened after that should be made into a movie and Herbert was honored by the Turkish government with their highest decoration. I would not want to be in a Turkish prison but I would definitely buy one of their guns.

Thye world must have come to an end, because ten years ago EVERYONE just KNEW those Turks would take half-a century to learn how to build guns - if ever even those heathen savages could do so.. Of course, the Italians and Czechs and other Euro-financiers/suppliers/engineers who really kicked the Turk gun industry into gear didn't know anything, either.

That plain scalloped boxlock is a nice-looking practical piece, and thank you for posting those great world-wide hunting pics.

And, Korean War Turks: a single squad of them armed with Enfields, assigned as forward observers, once held a roofless, stone-walled-hut all night long against a mass-wave attack on the Allied lines. Eventually, the North Korean/Chinese advancing masses split around that stubborn lethal bunch and just left them alone -- continuing the Communist attack on the UN forces, which were located well behind the outpost.

Adam,

Thanks for the post of some great looking guns. I'm thinking the Turkish guns may be similar to the Japanese guns - great guns at great prices, but underappreciated in the states. So, those who can see them for what they are (great guns) have an opportunity to get them while the prices are still good.

Thanks again for the post.

Larry, you've straightened me out. The distinction was not turning; good call.

Nice looking guns. Most especially that round action model.

Nice looking guns. Most especially that round action model.

Gotta love the Wirehairs.

She is a German wirehair.

Thanks everyone for the kind words about my dog and photos.

Speaking of round action, here is their rounded SLE.



Adam

The gun pictured is just crying out for a straight grip and a longer barrel. According to the site both are available.

SRH

Hmmmm....here is a fencepost DeHaan S2 .410 with 30" I&M barrels that I paddle around Panhandle waterholes. It seems to do an adequate job. 6 lb. all the screws are timed, wood to metal fit is almost impeccable (I've seen worse on much higher dollar guns), barrels are regulated, balance is right where I want it, and I prefer extractors.....A V grade Parker or English "best" it ain't, but I have a lot of money left over to play with. If it ever wears out from shooting doves and skeet, I'll let ya know.
Same thing for the S2 28ga.

Its hard not too fall in love with 410 SXSs. I wish Akus would offer the smaller gauges.

Amen!

SRH

They got your name written all over them.

Buy a Turkey then sell a Turkey....

O.K. Adam, how do I get one????

You, Sir, are an ass.

Me? Or Homeless?

+1

I'd like to see one of these in a 16ga round action hammer gun model.

He's not talking about you... just the bum. The best thing to do is just ignore ole joe. Like momma said, don't talk to strangers.... I mean strange people.


As far as where to get one.... That's the hard part. As of right now, only the rounded boxlock is available in the states. As you can read in the other thread, they go by the name Dickinson and are carried exclusively by the Cabelas Fine Gun Library. The sidelock models, as of now, are not available.

If you want one, I guess you'd have to contact Komandoav (or Commanado Arms) who is major shotgun importer in Europe (for companies like Beretta, Franchi, Webley Scott, Perrazzi, Browning, Benelli, etc). They represent Akus too. Then you'd have to import it.

Here's their website.
http://www.komandoav.com/index.php

Here is they're online catalog.
http://www.commando-arms.com/

This would be great business opportunity for someone willing to import these. They would sell well AS LONG AS THE PRICES ARENT JACKED UP. Case in point are the Dickinsons. When S&W imported them, their price was much higher and they didn't sell. Now, the Dickinsons are offered at a much more reasonable price and sell well.

I especially think the Sidelock would sell well.

Adam

Yea right.

Thanks Adam. I'd like to check into the sidelock. I'll check Commando.

In recent years the terms "round action" and "rounded action" have been used interchangeably by some makers of boxlocks. Before this I understood "round action" to mean only trigger plate action guns, distinct from A&D boxlock guns. So I also considered the trigger plate action as different from a boxlock. I think the distinction is useful for clarity -- especially since round action is now used so loosely.

Maybe this train is already leaving the station.

Jay

Please ignore. I'll learn someday.

cabela's price is around $1500. predict in three years price on used market will be around $1000, as was the case with s&w gold elite. that will be the time to buy...meantime, best to put your money in the big american four and the japanese made guns...happy new year to all!

I think the S&W in 28", double trigger is a great gun at $1100 on the present market. Every once in a while one shows up. New offerings at retail are only for someone who doesn't own a shotgun yet. I hunt over and live with a seven year old female Wirehair. The Wirehair is the most underrated general purpose house and hunting dog out there. After living with setters,red and white, one great English Pointer, my wife's wonderful Springers, and my "Ugly Dog", Eva, I will never have any other dog other than the Wirehair, popularly known as "The Ugly Dog". I have seen Mr. Burns' dog before and look forward to more pictures of his dog and his guns. By the way, my bird dog ownership now covers 64 years.

Wirehairs are nothing but shorthairs in serious need of a trim. Seriously, although I've owned shorthairs for 25 years, I've hunted with some very good wirehairs. You do, I think, stand a somewhat greater chance of running into a wirehair that's on the "sharp" side, speaking of temperament, than with the other continental dogs. But the 4 or 5 that I've hunted with most recently have not had that issue, and if a little growling and snapping takes place, it's usually my cranky shorthair female that starts it.

I see the BB's censorship program doesn't like the b word for a female dog.

Re Turkish guns, it's probably just a question of proving themselves over the long haul. Americans didn't accept Japanese cars or TV sets as quality products for a long time, or Japanese shotguns. Same story with shotguns from Spain. The more expensive products from Turkey have hit the market priced too high and have had to undergo significant price cuts before they sold. I think the Dickinson is priced more realistically, in terms of how it will sell. But time will tell, and right now the economy isn't very good.

Mr Brown I find funny you would say that about a wirehair,I've hunted over many breed's like yourself,but quite a few more DD's, I have only seen one who was sharp (three strike's and he was out so to speak ) ,I have heard of quite a few Brit's being so just the same.I 'm mean you still get a cranky fella on a certain day like any other breed

From the one's I've dealt with at hunt test's,and the various breeder's I know aggression is not tolerated and they are hand's down the best behaved dog's I've ever seen,I guess I may have a narrow view of the breed coming from where I do ,but I do know this, the breeder's I know up here in Canada take a great offence to the bred being labeled as sharp.

Maybe we overcompensate on manner training to avoid this ?

All the best ,
Chris

Newf, unless something has changed, DD's--as a requirement to breed--have to pass an aggression test. I believe they have them kill a fox in Germany. At one time, I think it was stray cats here in the States. I had 2 of them go after my dogs several years back, totally unprovoked. The only DD I've hunted with recently (the others being wirehairs, which I think wirehair owners would say is a distinction without a difference, but DD owners would not) is not that way.

I've been around a lot more shorthairs and Britts, and haven't seen similar behavior. My most recent Britt was very much the opposite, in fact . . . except around my setter, which we got several years after we acquired the Britt. Two unfixed boys, I guess. But for whatever reason, the Britt did not like the setter at all--but that was the only time, over the 8 years we owned him, I ever saw any aggression from him.

Cats?!! Now, that's my kind of dog. One of them would be worth having even if there ain't no more buhds to hunt 'round heah' anymore.

SRH

Com'on Stan. I have three tom cats. Best four legged mouse killers on the place. They'll keep the mice out of those peanuts.

The guys I dealt with referred to it as a "hardness test " it's purpose was to confirm the individual dogs reaction to furred predator's ie: fox,raccoon,mink etc,a feral cat is also sometime's used ,but like I said aggression towards other dogs is not encouraged or appreciated in the breeder's I know.

As to the Wirehair /DD thing it's a sometimes heated topic ,Heiko is a Drahthaar, he was breed down from a long,long line of Drahthaars each had to pass strict hunt and conformation tests for the privilege to breed,so I guess that's the distinction there.

As a side note,I didn't run him through the official gamut of testing,just the first two ,has a crooked front tooth which disqualified him from breeding.

So really I guess a dog is a dog is a dog,to each his own in the end ...I adore any dog who point's a game bird,but this guy I have now is like I said earlier, the best I've ever owned ,for me ...because others I imagine have their own view's on what's their favorite.

My best,
Chris

The thing about them I question is their relatively low price ceiling. They're beautiful guns and their track record for durability is getting impressive to say the least, however can you move them out the door if the price has to go north of $2,000 dollars in order for the business to make a profit selling them?

I remember getting a price list from Commando Arms (who is their dealer in Europe). The same guns that sells as the Dickinsons and S&W Elite had a price tag of $1000. The extractor model was $900.

I may be mistaken, but I am pretty sure that was USD.

Adam

In our NAVHDA chapter the UGLY dog is the Grif.

Yes GWP/DD's are "sharpe" but then, when the stray cat population goes away - that's a bad thing????

A guy in our retriever club has a DD male, we were talking about aversion training. He said it didn't work on his male, it was just a mater of how many seconds it was going to take to kill the skunk/porky/snake/small woodland creature he encounterd................ if he found it - it died - quickly

Adam:

How many do they want you to buy for an export

John
Quality Arms

Good question, John. They werent the best about emailing and the English wasn't too great.

Adam

Cabela's has the Dickinson featured on their website. I'm working on getting my hands on one for a field test. I had a chance to play with a couple of the S&W's shortly after they appeared. Both nice guns in terms of appearance, finish, etc, and they shot well--although the ST version had a really heavy trigger. The DT version, which I shot later, didn't have the trigger issues. At least some of the Dickinsons have choke tubes, which the S&W's didn't have--or at least not the ones I shot.

Has anyone handled a 12 bore? I'm concerned about the balance. When you have different gauges made on the same action, as is apparently the case, it usually happens that the smaller bores are balanced pretty nicely, but the bigger bores feel rather like waterpipes. There's not a single one in any of the gun shops where I live, so I can't answer that one for myself.

I shoot one and so does a friend of mine. They are both very well balanced guns. I have one in all three gauges and they all are built to handle well.

Thank you!