I frequently see in posts references that a certain gun would be good as an "upland" gun.

Being UK based I am guessing what upland actually is. Could someone please describe what upland means. Is it dependant on elevation above sea level, is it the basic topography, trees or no tress or is it a description based on the quarry species.
Thanks
Bob

For me "upland" hunting is for pheasant, quail, grouse, partridge, or dove. Generally it is "walk up" hunting done with dogs. I have always assumed the "upland" came from the English hunting tradition but apparently not. In the US I don't think it has anything to do with elevation as the traditional Southeast bob white hunt was usually done just a few hundred feet above sea level. I live at 3700 feet. Duck, goose, and crane are not considered by me as upland hunting.

Upland guns are lighter than water fowl guns because they are intended to be carried all day while walking behind the dogs. You practically never see anyone carrying a slinged gun behind pointing dogs here. Since they are used behind pointing dogs at closer range there are lots of 16, 20, 28, and 410s used in upland hunting.

I cannot answer why I consider doves upland game as they are mainly taken by pass shooting or ambushed coming into a pond in the evening or a grain field during the day.

Best,

Mike

Interesting query - I always assumed the "upland" referred to the terrain being largely dry and not shoreline or tidal flats, hence the hunting is not for water birds such as ducks.

Thanks for the prompt reply, now I understand the need for a special gun with emphasis on light weight for long walks
Bob

As a avid 'upland' hunter, I would pretty much agree with Mike's assessment, adding prairie chicken and excluding dove which is more of a migratory bird. However, woodcock migrate and are considered an upland bird. I think upland denotes bird hunting where the birds are found in some sort of fairly heavy cover and are usually hunted with dogs. I would think 'rough' shooting in the United Kingdom would qualify as upland hunting. Interestingly, Ruffed Grouse and Woodcock, both of which are considered upland birds, are often found in swamps, especially in dryer than normal conditions.

I agree with Mike and Buzz, named for the type of hunting we do for birds, excluding waterfowl, and not for any type of geographical features.

Bob, I see you’re from Norway, how's the hunting there?

Upland in my mind...














The individual states commonly list "upland" game as most of these species and sometimes more: quail, dove, chukar (partridge), pheasant, grouse, pigeon (bandtailed), snipe, grouse, etc..

The division for me is waterfowl and upland game. And upland would include turkey. It's not so much a descriptor of hunting style to me as that of quarry.

I really don't consider phesants in the upland catagory, and consider them a seperate catagory just like waterfowl. I picture the perfect "upland" gun and the perfect "phesant" gun as two different weapons, but thats just me - your miliage may vary.

The upland gun needs to be light and nimble, carried at port arms ready for the unexpected flush or the bird trapped between you and the dog. In my neck of the woods I dream of a 28ga.................

The phesant gun can be slung, and for me one of my lighter 12ga duck guns does well.

This is the UP of Michigan, an ES is backing my SMP


Here is my little guy pointing an early season woodcock in the LP of Michigan, tight cover and quick shooting

I only work in Norway, I live and "shoot" in the UK. I spend 10 days working in Stavanger and then return home for 4 days cramming as much shooting in as I can. I have never hunted in Norway so I really would not like to comment in case I got it wrong. I only have second hand knowledge gained from hunting work mates.

Snipe must be thrown in with the other upland gamebirds just because they couldn't figure out what else to call them. They're nearly always found here in low, wet, boggy places. Woodcock, too, but in the woods.

More upland hunting.





SRH

[quote=Chuck H]Upland in my mind...














The individual states commonly list "upland" game as most of these species and sometimes more: quail, dove, chukar (partridge), pheasant, grouse, pigeon (bandtailed), snipe, grouse, etc..

Lovely fotos indeed, the one with the white Pointer in the distance, and the two Labs closer to the hunters-?? How do you work a pointing dog with a Flushing dog afield without conflicts--ie: Your well trained Elhew bloodlined Pointer jacks up tighter than a nun's pursestrings, you heart beats a mile a minute as you walk in on the point- off to the side so the dog can see you, gun raised, eyes out to where the nose tells you from experience the bird(s) will flush, and then- Blam-o-- here come Butch and Sundance bustin' in, the bird(s) scatter like gangbusters, and the Pointer is throughly confused--

A.B. Frost's painting on the cover of "New England Grouse Shooting" by William Harnden Foster



The Upland Gunner's Book: An Anthology edited by George Bird Evans is available as an e-book
http://archive.org/details/uplandgunnersboo00evan

I would think a 12 bore British game gun perfect for "upland game"

Indeed it is, Mike--including pheasants.

I've often hunted pheasants with a European double equipped with a sling, but the only time I sling arms is after I've shot my last bird, or if I'm getting the gun out of the way to snap a picture. Hunting pheasants--or any other relatively open country bird--while carrying at sling arms can work, if you have a pointing dog and shoot only pointed birds. But I've found that pheasants flush in range, quite frequently, when the dog's nowhere around them. I'm not above shooting unpointed birds under those circumstances.

Snipe (and rail), in my view, fall into a sort of in between category. They're found in or near water, and many states require that hunters use nontoxic shot. For me, that makes them not quite upland, not quite waterfowl.

Ducks, Geese, and shoreline hunting of rail are waterfowl hunting. All other game birds to me are upland hunting. Turkeys are too special to categorize .

One aspect of REAL upland guns that some times goes over head of owner is the gun should actually have value commensurate with being taken out in the uplands, briars, thickets, rain snow etc. Particularly guns intended for partridge hunting. Guy wants to get a custom double gun made up, he gets fancy engraving by some master, uses spectacular grained wood, worries for nights over theory like having another 3/1000 inch of choke in left barrel, gets ridiculously long target type length of pull, etc etc etc. Then he usually ends up with high cost vanity gun that lives in safe and comes out for for pictures or to show off to friends , or may be for skeet or while walking very carefully on open roads in blue bird weather. To further confuse upland hunters, some magazine does more pictures and artical on the ultimate upland gun. Readers who are mostly clue less get lost in the engraving and wood, and offer hearty agreement. Big time joke. Give me a well worn honest upland gun that's really been in the coverts. Every thing here is IMHO.

OK, there's a list of birds generally considred by many to constitute "upland" birds.

But where does the descriptor "upland" come from? Why is it applied to these birds. Surely it wasn't just an arbitrary choice of word.

Gnomon, it's good to see your handle here again. I was afraid the Tea Party know-nothings from Misfires had put out a contract on you. A part of me hopes that Romney wins the polular vote but loses in the Electoral College. The crazies would probably declare war though rather than concede. I do surely hope they have to ride out another four years with Obama. I don't think the country would stand for another four years of Congressional obstructionism. We'll see. Oh, I wonder if the term upland isn't meant to distiguish waterfowl habitate from " higher" ground.Regards, Bill

rocky, I tend to agree with you that the "upland" refers to "higher" ground than that where waterfowl are found. And yes, it's our equivalent to "rough" shooting in Britain as opposed to driven shoots.

But when I see those wonderful open expanses out West and the wide spaces between trees in the Georgia pine woods I get jealous. Just hunted grouse in Maine and the cover was too thick for me this year - age getting to me. I think it's gonna be Georgia hereafter!

Don't sweat the crazies. They will always be amongst us. I'm enjoying my doubles while I still can and that's good enough for me.

All the best

Bill, while I share your pleasure at seeing Gnomon back and posting and suspect you may be right at the origins of our use of the term "upland", you might save the political jabs for off topics. There are plenty here who don't appreciate them in this area and your comment suggests you read the off topics but don't have the balls to put your name to anything there.

Regards,

James Roblin

'Uplands' is a variant of 'highlands' and possibly related to the Middle English wald or wold. The concept is certainly not American

Dansk (Danish)
højland

Nederlands (Dutch)
hoogland, binnenland, bovenlands

Français (French)
hautes terres

Deutsch (German)
Hochland

Italiano (Italian)
altopiano

Español (Spanish)
meseta, altiplanicie

Svenska (Swedish)
högland

Obviously, we Americans played fast and loose with French names. Or else maybe it was those voyageurs, crashing around in the woods and paddling the streams, starting back in the 17th century--when French wasn't what it is today. Then you throw in the fact that some of them weren't all that well-educated. So we end up with Terre Haute, IN (might have been upland hunting near there . . . once upon a time); Des Moines, IA (with no apparent connection to monks); and my all-time favorite: Prairie du Chien, WI. No prairie dogs there, for sure, although some connect the name to an Indian chief in the area whose name was dog. My guess would shift the focus to a misspelling, and that it was perhaps meant to be Prairie du Chene--the oak tree prairie, which does make sense.

So much for wandering around in foreign language.

Larry, those French weren't paddling around over here. They owned the continent from the Arctic Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico. In Canada, we're glad they're still here. Montreal is the second-largest French-language TV production centre in the world. Quebec's cultural contribution is particularly significant. Its hunting and fishing speaks for itself. Regards, King

seven pounds or less usually qualifies...

While we're all opinionated as to what constitutes an "upland gun", the reality is that more 7 1/2 - 8+ lb. 12ga autos and pumps kill more "upland birds" by many times over than the number of doubleguns fielded, let alone sub 7 lb ones. They're toted around by young athletic hunters who don't yet know they aren't carrying the 'proper' upland gun or by older hunters that never learned.

I think that the term used in most of merry England that would translate pretty well would be "rough". The gun you used for "rough" shooting would likely transfer pretty well to "upland".

Best,
Ted

When dealing with land-use planning and particularly impacts on watersheds and wetlands, the term "upland" is used in contrast to the term "wetland". A wetland is defined by being inundated for a certain number of days in a year (the exact number I forget now) or by being a certain distance from a body of flowing or standing water.

So, an upland can be properly thought of as being somewhat higher and drier than the wetland. And the game which lives and is hunted in the one ordinarily does not do so in the other. To be sure, we've all kicked pheasants and grouse out of soggy bottoms if not hummocks projecting above inundations, and seen geese in cornfields. But, the normal habitat defines the quarry.

IMHO, anyway.

The perfect upland gun? One you can carry all day and use to hit what you shoot at.

Hi, RWTF, the other "Lab" in Chucks 3rd picture is my German Shorthair. His pointer, my GSP and his Lab worked very well together. His Lab Jasmine is a very well heeled and trained dog as is Sky (his pointer). I've hunted a lot with my GSP and Labs together, never had any problem with the mix. In fact, there have been more than a couple times that I'm glad a Lab was with us. A pointing brred going on stanch point with a bird in the thick stuff and won't move an inch..send in the Lab! Boom! It works well if all the dogs are well managed, handled and trained. I've hunted with some crappy pointers that would break birds when another was on point, didn't honor at all.

Best!

Greg

Nitro Express I cannot agree with your sentiments about best guns or high end up being safe queens. I hunt my SLE best gun whose engraving and wood are to truly fantastic. Even in bad weather I have hunted it as my 1st string gun. I only shift to my second string gun (a Greener FH50) when I am sore and looking for lightweight option 5 3/4lb vs 6 1/4 lb. I even use my best gun in the duck blind. I won't own a gun I will not hunt.

yes it gets scratched pushing heavy cover, but it is honest wear

[quote=Dave in Maine]When dealing with land-use planning and particularly impacts on watersheds and wetlands, the term "upland" is used in contrast to the term "wetland". A wetland is defined by being inundated for a certain number of days in a year (the exact number I forget now) or by being a certain distance from a body of flowing or standing water.

So, an upland can be properly thought of as being somewhat higher and drier than the wetland. And the game which lives and is hunted in the one ordinarily does not do so in the other. To be sure, we've all kicked pheasants and grouse out of soggy bottoms if not hummocks projecting above inundations, and seen geese in cornfields. But, the normal habitat defines the quarry.

IMHO, anyway.

I hadn't thought of that explanation even though I work in that industry. The only thing lacking in the explanation is that I might add wetland and upland are also defined by the species of flora present in each zone.

Outing November 1898
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_33/outXXXIII02/outXXXIII02t.pdf
For the benefit of some half-dozen inquirers, let me say that for all-round upland and cover shooting I prefer a cylinder-bored twelve gauge of not more than seven pounds weight, and by a maker of established reputation, be he American, British, or other over-sea exponent.
The better the quality of the gun the lighter may safely be built, and there is no sense in lugging about a pound, or less, of useless weight. A twelve-gauge, properly charged with smokeless powder and the correct size of shot for the game in view, will, if held aright, kill that game at any reasonable range.

Earliest U.S. reference to "upland shooting" that I've found

Complete Manual for Young Sportsmen: with directions for handling the gun, the rifle, and the rod; the art of shooting on the wing; the breaking, management, and hunting of the dog; the varieties and habits of game; river, lake, and sea fishing, etc.
Frank Forester (Henry William Herbert) 1856
http://books.google.com/books?id=TtZIAAAAIAAJ
http://books.google.com/books?id=TtZIAAAAIAAJ&q=upland#v=snippet&q=upland&f=false

I have always thought that uplands was a another British expression that we had grabbed. To someone in the more urbane Southern England there are the midlands and the uplands. The uplands being northern England and Scotland, which also is more mountainous.

More walking, more rugged terrain, therefore a lighter firearm.

I was using "paddling around" literally, King. Easiest way to navigate what was then wilderness was by boat. And you're leaving out the East Coast of what is now the USA in your description of how much of the continent they owned. Never that part. But I'm glad they were here too. I was simply pointing out some linguistic oddities they left behind.

Well the French weren't just in the Northeast. Louisiana, New Orleans, Baton Rouge and many more French place-names are in the South. I think the Louisiana purchase has already been mentioned.

That's highlands, not uplands.
I have never heard the term "uplands" until I started to read American hunting magazines.
"Uplands hunting" is not a British term, Lagopus, Salopian, am I correct?

http://www.ouruplands.co.uk/

Re hunting with both pointing and flushing dogs, I have hunted twice in Virginia with someone who has two pointers and an English-bred Cocker Spaniel. When the pointers are on point, the Cocker is released and he goes in (usually under one of the pointers) and flushes the bird(s). Usually, the Cocker also retrieves and hops up into his handlers arms with the bird in his mouth.

I just came back from hunting quail in GA and that was the standard practice - pointers to find the birds and cockers to flush and retrieve. Works very well with quail - they don't stick around long once they come eye to eye with a cocker.

The little flushing cockers are used on released birds; probably wouldn't work very well or be needed for that matter with a truly wild covey of Bobwhites. I tried my wife's Shitsieu (sp?) as a flush dog since I have to feed him anyway. He just stood on the two-path road and barked when the birds got up...Geo

Well, I'd have to wonder whether a Shih-Tsu would be tall enough to get over the hummocks on the edge of the path, let alone get through any briers or brush if it has the normal long-ish silky coat of the breed.

Still, if one doesn't experiement, one will never know for sure.

Don't laugh guys but my neighbor and I tried his Corgi cattle dogs once. They worked pretty good except for their short legs. Thick CRP land was a total disaster for them.

Considering the huge jungles of impenetrable old blackberry vines that our local pheasants dive into when pursued I have considered carrying a Jack Russel in the back of my vest and unleashing him at the optimum moment. There would be some very surprised pheasants....

That right there is funny!! My wife has had a shitsu, and has a little white bishon/maltiese fuzball thing right now - I'd hate to think what she'd do if I took her little girl out to the bush......

To follow that thought - it was something to watch a poodle retreive ducks at our HRC hunt test. Wish I would have taken a picture. A poodle would probably work well braced with a pointer, so if your wife needs a lap dog.... Or you can just go with a Versitle breed and have one dog.

Gary

My e-pointer is starting to act like a lap dog. She wants to ride in my wife's lap in the truck

Good luck getting the pheaant back, though!

Years ago my best friend had a Dauchuond (sp) that was a great rabbit dog, and if we could get her around some of the, at that time scarce phesants, as long as the snow wasn't more than an inch deep she was enthusiastic to say the least. It was very difficult for her to retrieve a bird but she tried! Later, Mark II

Gordon swears his Westie Albert helped retreive these ducks in Saskatchewan

Ive hunted a plantation nearly Albany GA where the owner's Rat Terrier (or maybe Jack Russell) retrieves and flushes.

Dachshunds are used as hunting dogs in Germany. Their name means "badger dog" and that's what they're intended to go after. One look at one trained for that and it's clear it isn't Aunt Tillie's lapdog.

Friend of mine takes his Jack Russell phez hunting. Much to be desired, but he is a help.

My german shepard would point and find downed birds.

My first German Shepard had wolf introduced into his blood lines. I think he would have ate most of them himself.

I think the point of all this "dogs will do the unexpected" is that they're all DOGS; that is, one species with a multitude of different looks. Most all dogs will point in the right situation; my first brace of beagles would trail rabbits all day but still stop and point a covey of birds when they came upon one. My wirehair would prefer to 'herd' the cat around the yard a little before she kills it. And the toy house dog will get as protective as a german shepherd when an 'intruder' arrives. Dachshunds will retrieve, I've seen'em do it.

By the way, my wife's shi-tsu didn't fail as a flush dog because he wouldn't flush, it was just that he instinctively backed the wirehair and the pointing lab whenh I tried him out. I wish I had taken a picture of those three "bird-dogs" all lined up on a covey of put out quail.

Whatever sort of dog you take as a friend, don't be surprised at anything it might decide to do...Geo

One of the best pheasent dogs I've been behind was a 12yr old beagle. A shipmate had a kennel of hounds, and his oldest dogs would come out for to hunt long tails. Old Jake seemed to know when we were bird hunting, and he only chased roosters, he even had a different bay...... Two howls and even an old long tail would put to the air.

I hunt with Setters but have a special place in my heart for a Scot's Terrier, so I would take the little mugs in the cab with me on a hunt occasionally to have someone to keep me company on the long drives to a hunting spot. The problems were that they would light out after the Setters and having short legs were soon winded and I would often have to carry them back to the truck. Then because of their short stature they were shorter then the surrounding grass and could disappear in to the thinnest of cover. I spent a good deal of time hunting for dogs that were with in a 100 ft of the truck.

My Terriers were great for laughs and companionship but definitely not hunters.