Francotte, or not?

I obtained a guild type 16 OU. It is marked "Fabrique Nationale of Liege" or something very close. The gun as now at my smith getting cleaned, so I don't have photo of that stamping right now. I bought it as a guild gun, but just wondering exactly what it is (if that's even possible). The workings seem pretty refined from the well-timed ejectors, to nice triggers, liquid-smooth opening and closing, and a forend that smoothly clicks into place when reassembling. It's nice.

Photos #1 and #3 are of a 20 gauge "Charles Daly Made by Francotte" listed in gunsamerica. #2 & #4 are of my gun.






These next two came from the book, Rooster! A Tribute to Pheasant Hunting in North America.

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These next two came from the book, Rooster! A Tribute to Pheasant Hunting in North America.

I would have to say it's from the FNL factory..Fabrique Nationale etc ,Big firm,...the folks who built the Browning Superposed o/u gun & a whole bunch of other firearms.
Francotte was another v good Belgian maker,perhaps smaller than FNL?, but made a lot of lovely guns ,rifles etc....but weren't conected.
So you seem to have an nice FNL o/u,can't help with what model etc though.
So its not a guild gun if it has the FNL marks.
nice one...Franc

IF its marked as Fabrique Nationale then thats what it is .

Thanks!

FN was the giant. The Ford Motors of guns in it's day. Francotte while not a little one man shop, was not even close in size.

Having said that:

Fabrique Nationale was founded Oct 15, 1888

List of share holders;
Fabrique Nationale Oct 15, 1888
Albert Simmonis, Jules Ancion, Dresse-Laloux, M.A.L., Dumoulin Freres, Joseph Janssen, Henri Pieper, Pirlot et Fresart, Credit General Liegeois, Nicolas Vivario, Auguste Francotte, Emil et Leon Nagant

So, could a gun have been made by FN and commissioned by Francotte? Most definitely. The maker's marks will tell the story.

Pete

Dave, I don't see the Francotte proprietary proof in your last post, so I don't think it's a Francotte. I've owned one Francotte OU built on essentially the same design, a Daly built on the same design (but NOT a Francotte), and a Belgian-made gun imported by Abercrombie & Fitch, also built on the same design--and also not a Francotte. My 1936 AF catalog shows one of the latter--not very well, unfortunately.

Re the "Charles Daly made by Francotte" on Guns International . . . I wonder if that's mere speculation on the part of the owner. The late Don Zutz stated that the Daly "Commander" OU's, imported in the 30's, were made by Masquelier, with Neumann barrels.

Thanks, Larry. When I get the gun back from my smith I'll delve into it a little more and supply a few more photos. Handles a lot like that Merkel 200E that "we" owned. Not stocked quite as high as that one, but this one is not at all low-stocked, I see plenty of the rib. The engraving and carving on this one is much nicer and it has a nicely checkered butt. Overall it's thin and fast. Might be too fast for me.

Dave, I like those Merkel-like OU's from that period. Nice guns for those that prefer vertical barrels, and quite a few of them even have the proper number of triggers!

I don't think so.
Nice looking gun; really like the DT.

I have very similar one but with text Saive Super, Liege. This action design is very typical for Saive O/U shotguns and it seems that quite many smaller belgian shotgun makers used this same action too. Haven´t ever seen any FN with this action. Charles Daly imported and sold with their own name this type shotguns in USA.

Sorry, I never followed up on this thread. The shotgun was actually a Fabrique d’Armes Unies de LIEGE SA. I ended up selling it to a Belgian shotgun fan last summer. I really enjoyed the shotgun for the few years I owned it, but as with most light, fast handling shotguns I was inconsistent with it. I replaced it with a similar Merkel 200E 16 and shot that one worse! Bye bye! My continental O/U keeper is a 12 ga. 200E. That one works for me.

We did flesh this out a little bit on another thread.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=320922

I need a new butt stock for exact similar shotgun so if anyone know where to find one please PM me.