I have a concern and I’d like to get a disinterested third party opinion about how to handle the matter.

My wife decided that she wanted to give me a very nice shotgun of my choosing for Christmas and wanted me to select the gun. After much contemplation and research, I decided on the Kimber Valier because it fit me like a glove and is an absolutely beautiful gun. I’ve read the various opinions from the board relating to "Turkish" guns but this puppy is beautifully finished and fitted. Great -- I get prices and a local master Kimber dealer orders the gun for me as it is not a stock item for him.

Now, for the rest of the story. The gun arrives right before Christmas and while inspecting the gun and drooling on it after my wife brings it home, I find that the left ejector does not eject with a snap cap. In addition, the pattern sheet that came with the gun clearly shows one of the patterns is largely off of the pattern page. So, I take this nearly $5,000.00 gun back for return. Mind you, the gun has never been fired. It is as the dealer received it -- new and in the box.

Long story short, Kimber has had the gun in hand since Jan. 10th and, from what I understand, has not looked at it or fixed it. I was promised by a representative that the gun would be looked at, and if it could not be fixed quickly, a new gun would be mailed to me. I continue to wait. Given the choice, I want the gun replaced with a different Valier. Am I wrong to feel this way? You buy a new gun with the belief that it will function well. Believe it or not, I still want the Kimber but I also believe that Kimber should service their customers, particularly if it is their quality control that has caused the problem.

I have been reluctant to comment on an ongoing warranty situation in hopes that the problem would be resolved; but, I am getting no where and I’d like an opinion as to how you would handle this matter. My patience is gone and I would readily love to have my money back, which is sad because this gun has the potential to be a great gun. Please offer feedback and suggestions. I do hope that I can report back to you in the near future that Kimber has fixed the situation to my satisfaction.

You say that Kimber has had the gun since January 10, but have you done any follow-up recently? Kimber may have a reason for the delay, for instance, re-regulating the barrels would take some time if they had decided to do warranty repairs. I would check back with the Kimber location to which the gun was sent for evaluation, not the local Kimber dealer.

A question though. You state that one of the patterns is largely off the page. This is not unusual if one is patterning for pattern consistency and density and not for point of impact. When I pattern, I generally do not have a dot or centerpoint on the page, I just fire the instant my gun mounts. I then draw a 30" circle around the most concentration of shot, draw quarters, then count the percentage of shot in each quarter. I could care less if the pattern is not centered.

Kimber may be waiting to pattern the gun, checking for point of impact of each barrel before deciding to either repair or replace.

Give them a call and ask for an update. Kimber has a very good reputation for customer satisfaction.

Sounds like Kimber is unclear on the concept of including a 'test target'.

I appreciate the response. Actually my wife insisted on calling the factory rep. today since she is the one who shucked out the money. I found out that the gun was misplaced at the factory on a shelf and has just found its way to the gunsmith. Neither the pattern issue nor the ejector has been looked at but I hope that is changing as we speak. I have dealt with the factory rep. during this whole thing. I have sent many emails and left countless phone messages and in kimbers defense they have continued to communicate with me. I just feel that an unfired gun should be fixed very quickly or a replacement made and that was what was promised. If the gun was misplaced that probably explains the lapse of time involved. I don't intend to bash kimber, I just want the gun that I paid a hefty price for. These guns have caught a lot of flack recently and I dearly hope it is not deserved. I'll be the first to pat Kimber on the back if they handle this properly.

On the plus side, you clearly have a great wife!

DeWayne

Big 10-4 to that one!

Assuming that the POI of one of the barrels is off a considerable amount, I would insist on a replacement gun. Kimber is not going to re-regulate the barrels, by taking them apart and re-regulating, re-soldering, and rebluing. Fixing the problem by removing material from the inside of the choke area would not be acceptable to me, not on a new $5000 gun. Sending it back to the Turkey farm would entail months of waiting. Your wonderful wife didn't pay for a repaired gun and you shouldn't settle for one, either. That's MO. Let us know how it turns out. Why in the world they would include a pattern sheet that clearly shows the POI to be off a bunch is incomprehensible to me!

It's incredible. Like a pistol being delivered with a 'test target' that has no bullet holes.

Shotgunjones, your signature, "One test result is worth one thousand expert opinions", attributed to Wernher von Braun, actually showed up on BLH (Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton of steam locomotive fame) tensile testing machines back in the 20's. Slightly different wording: "One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions"

Could go back farther than that... von Braun probably plagerized it from the first mechanical engineer... perhaps of 'wheel' fame... It's about time for another quote anyway... I'll look for one..

Kimber is located in downtown Yonkers, NY. I stopped by the facility last year to see about a problem I was having with a gun they made but they wouldn't even look at it. Seems the name has been sold a few times and they said it wasn't their gun.

Unless they brought a gunsmith over from Turkey where the gun was made, I have a feeling they'll be lost about regulating the barrels. Jim's opinion is similar to mine, tell them you want another gun, one that patterns and operates correctly.

Or get your money back from the dealer ASAP. For $5K you can get any nuber of new SxS's, the Poli's from Rich cole would be one choice, I'm sure Rich know's what's what with those guns.

I think Kimber will be flying blind.

I think a new gun is the answer to this issue too and have lobbyed for that the whole time. This whole matter is complicated by the fact that this gun is a present. Needless to say this present means alot to me and I want a gun that I can keep. The POI thing really, really bothers me and makes me want to part with the gun. No doubt I would loose a grand or more in the process but I don't want or need a gun that doesn't hit where I point. The gun may pattern better with different shells but I don't know since I did not want to fire the gun with it already giving problems. I wonder if this were a Poli, Grulla, Aya, etc., would they replace the gun or try to fix it? Its a moot point I guess but I wonder how this is normally dealt with in the industry since I am sure that anyone can produce a gun that gives trouble.

Recoil Rob,
"Seems the name has been sold a few times and they said it wasn't their gun"
Just a tangential bit of info: Leslie Edelman bought the Kimber name out of bankruptcy, set up in Yonkers, and got their highly profitable/successful 1911 biz going.

Bulldawg - Get a replacement gun if possible.

You've been given a lot of good advice already but your last post makes me wonder what is really going on here. Who are you "lobbying" with for a new gun? Your wife? Surely the gift is the same whether this gun is replaced or not. "She called the factory rep."(in Turkey?) The gun was misplaced on the shelf at the factory? Is it in Turkey now? Kimber is just the importer, not the factory. You seem to be awfully eager to excuse Kimber for this mess, to me.
I'm puzzled.
I would insist on your(wife's) money back and buy a gun of similar value with a well established reputation, and remember to thank her every time you use the new gun.
JL

JL ,"lobbying" was a poor choice of words. They have a person assigned to the sales and service on this model and he is who I am dealing with. He is clear that I want a new gun. They have communicated with me throughout this matter but keep telling me they will fix the gun if possible instead of just replacing it. I don't believe that it can be fixed satisfactorily. They know that. The frustration is that it seems you have to resort to some form of litigation to get any service on problems these days. Trust me, I would be glad to have my money back at this point but would still be happy with a different "functional" gun of the same model. This is not unreasonable.

You returned the gun, NIB and unfired, why should you loose $1000?

You want a new gun or your money back or file a small claims action. Most states allow up to $5000 in small calims court.

Did you pay cash or credit card? If credit card, get them involved.

If it was a Poli, Grulla, AYA I think they're better setup to have the gun repaired. As Yeti said, Kimber knows ACP's.

I'm curious now about the current Kimber Company. Do they actually have a Kimber factory where their rifles and pistols are made, or they little more than an importer.

Where is your gun now? Is it in the Kimber "factory" or in Turkey? I don't believe for a minute that Kimber has anyone capable of re-regulating barrels on a SxS shotgun at whatever place of business Kimber has in Yonkers.

I believe Kimber's Valier shotguns are made by Huglu in Turkey, and merely imported by Kimber. Normally I'm a big supporter of Huglu SG's (I have 2 and love them!), but it appears a lemon slipped through the cracks.

I think I'd call the rep and tell him I want it settled TODAY - Either ship a new gun or refund my $$$. If you really want the refund, and bought with a CC, ask them to charge it back; after you explain you've returned the product, they should support your request.

As an example of how this could be handled - Yildiz (another Turkish imported SG) had a similar problem; several (about 6 that I've heard of) shotguns were sold with the bottom barrel WAY out of regulation. Yildiz (or Academy Sporting Goods) had contracted with Briley to perform warranty work. The guns were shipped to Briley, fitted with new barrels, and returned to satisified owners. And this is on a $400 gun!

There are two gun dealers in my area who will not do business with Kimber because of their dealings with them on 1911 guns. Resolving issues with defective guns was the sore point. Coincidentally, I had this discussion an hour ago with a small dealer who will no longer even order one if you ask him to.

No offense to Kimber but to "loose" a firearm for roughly a month when the customer's been in regular contact with them sounds just like a story that happened to me when I was in the ski business years ago. A customer had returned a pair of xc skis that had delamed and after getting a r.a. I sent them back to the company. after checking back several times the rep got a bit short because the problem had to be that I made a mistake since the skis were clearly not there. After getting the tracking info from ups I called and talked to the same rep who had the same attitude... That is until I pointed out that not only were the skis at the company for the time that they couldn't find them but that the rep I was talking to was the person who had signed for the skis.

They may not know how to deal with the problem and are stalling until they can either find a way to get the shotgun repaired or replaced.

Parris

Shotgunjones, I f you want another quote, I saw one on a building materials co. calendar from about 1900. " Nothing's any good if there is something better."

For sheer materialism one can't beat that atitude!!! David

I don't know where Kimber rifles and pistols are made but both shotguns are imported. I know the sxs is a turkish imported Huglu/Hatfield and the O/U is Italian I believe. Local dealers have told me the same thing about problems but I didn't learn this until I had problems.

From their website...."Every Kimber 1911 pistol is proudly made in a state-of-the-art American factory".

Doesn't say if the American factory is actually in America, could be one of those American factories like the one Smith & Wesson built in Turkey.

About the rifles...."Only riflemen can make proper rifles, and most of the good ones are here in America. Kimber is the best of the bunch."

Your call.

They make no claims as to the origins of their shotguns.

I just wanted to leave an update on this issue. I have received the valier back. It is the same gun I purchased. It has had the ejectors timed and based on all tests at this time it is ok and functional. No mention is made on the work order of the issue with the barrel regulation but based on my patterning with American shells it seems to be shooting where it needs to. The Kimber rep and I had discussed the barrel regulation problem possibly being the foreign shells used to test the gun and that was indeed apparently the case. Assuming the gun continues to work I am happy with the gun now. It is a beautiful weapon and points and balances very well. I did not intend this thread to bash either the gun or Kimber but hopefully someone with the companies producing the doubles made today are taking note that customer service and quality control are important to buyers of these guns. I guess we double people can be ornery and demanding cusses when something doesn't work right but when that does happen and it will then a company needs to fix it pronto or replace it. Thats the way I conduct my business and I expect no less of them. I know there are alot of questions regarding these guns on the board and I will continue to post and comment on them. Hopefully all of it will be good from here on out. I appreciate everyones input and the chance to vent.

Great to hear it worked out for you Bulldawg, It's good to know they have someone wrking at the factory that kew how to take care of the ejector problem. They certanly could have been more professional about it but the end result is what matters. Use it well and bring home some birds for your wife, nice gift she gave you.

Does she have a sister?

Regards,
Rob

I would get my money back.....no....(and I don't want to be a prick but) I wouldn't have bought a Turkish gun to begin with. No matter what the cost. But now you are stuck. Don't be surprised if you get the gun back and it is still messed up. Or, maybe you will get the same results another guy on here got when Ruger couldn't fix his Gold Label after several tries- they sent him a Red Label. But if it were me, I would definitely demand my money back.

Good to hear that the gun came back in good shape and shooting well.

A couple of things have been said here that may need clarification.

Kimber has been owned by the same person for 13 years.

The handguns are made in Yonkers. Ditto the rifles. Kimber is the largest maker of 1911 pistols in the world.

I think they have a policy of either not working on, or at least not warrantying, guns made in the 1980s by a previous company with the same name.

I've shot the Valier. Very nice. We had one in Namibia last September.

The issue of Turkish guns is an interesting one, and the comments one hears mirror the comments made about Spanish guns 20 or 30 years ago.

Tom,

Last summer I brought a gun to the Yonkers facility. It was a Kimber Swedish Mauser conversion that they were selling in 1996 and I purchased it directly from Kimber in June, 1996. The gun wouldn't fire, it was leaving shallow hits on the primers.

I waited in their reception area for 20 minutes, a women came down and saw the gun and said they wouldn't touch it, it was made by the former Kimber company and was not their resposibility. I told them I wasn't looking for something for free (warranty work), would the gunsmith just check the headspace so I could determine if it was setback or a firing pin problem? I was told "No' and asked to leave.

The gun was made less than 11 years ago so I think you may have some wrong information. If "Kimber has been owned by the same person for 13 years." then they did refuse to work on one of their own guns.

Either way, their attitude let me know they didn't care about one of their customers and I'll never be one again.

Perhaps there's a good story in there, maybe a radio segment.

Regards,
Rob Di Stasio

Rob:

I'll see what I can find out about that. Thanks for the info.

Tom (still looking for left-handed doubles)

Well, I guess I missed your post saying you had gotten your gun back. Glad to hear it worked out. I'll bet your wife is happy, too. Good luck with your new gun.

My Kimber SuperAmerica rimfire rifle was made in Yonkers N.Y.
It shoots with any Anschutz sporter made, and in the fit and finish dept., it stands head and shoulders above the Anschutz.

First, I am VERY happy that you have your gun back and are happy with the results. But, come on. They got the gun on January 10th and your first post complaining was on January 12th???? Come on, it is only February 21st today. Heck! I have sent sunglasses back for repair under warranty and it took a helluva lot longer than 6 weeks!!!!

I understand that "misplacing" you gun is inexcusable, but! Unless I am missing something, why the big deal about only 6 weeks worth of waiting?

Check the date on his first post again, Steve.

Clemson

Bulldawg, please keep us updated on how that gun works out for you, whether you have additional problems, etc. There have been several posts here (and on other BB's) on the Valiers, and I think you may be the first person to post who actually bought one. A lot of us are wondering how they'll stack up against Spanish sidelocks in terms of performance.