I own an older gun in which the top lever is to the left rather than to the right when the action is closed. I have been told by a gunsmith this can be remedied by pinging the barrel lumps at the site where the bolts enter the lumps to lock the action. Does this make sense and is this an appropriate course of action? Thx for your opinion.

No and get away from that dude.

You live in the midwest; I would send it to

http://www.mbabllc.com/page/page/7927803.htm

He did one for me at reasonable cost.

Please will people who ask questions like this give some detail. What is the gun ? A purdey? A Parker? A Ugatachea? O/U or side by side?
Apart from that the man who told you "pinging the barrel lump " is no gunsmith . When the bites on a gun wear the lever can come past center ,it could also be that the spindle is worn or that the lever itself is worn . It could be one of several other things ,but without knowlage of the gun every thing is a guess.

Buzz, pinging the barrel lugs to tighten the action is a shoddy quick fix practice equivalent to sawdust in a car differential to quiet the gear noise caused by excessive wear.

Buzz, if I'm not mistaken, you are talking about an L.C. Smith. If the lever goes too far to the left, it is possible the extension rib slope is worn and can be TIG welded and then filed to correct this.
Also possible the rotary bolt is worn, but my guess would be the extension rib slope where the rotary bolt goes through it and tightens up on the slope of the extension rib.

If it is not an L.C. Smith, sorry.

What the hell is pinging? Is that when you buy cheap gas and your car makes a "death rattle"?

I've done some peening, and peeing in my time, but neither of them on a barrel lump.

Oops!! It appears I butchered the King's English in addition to asking an ignorant question. I'm terribly sorry if I offended you Chuck with my ignorance. The gun is a Boss and I'm not going to have it peened or pinged Chuck. Thankyou for your informative answer to my ignorance.

If you had what you call a "gunsmith" tell you that, using those words.....then he is a dork.....you need a new helper, adviser, gunsmith, preferrably someone with a brain.....

Buzz,
No offense taken nor intended.

Regardless of whether you have a nice Boss or just a nice old Parker or similar, keep your guns away from the guy that wants to beat on your guns.

On your Boss, if the lever is to the left, you probably have excessive wear to the bolting. This can be addressed by having a new locking bolt made, or the orginal locking bolt tig or laser welded up and refit. Add this to gunmans reply and you should have good idea on what it'll take to make it right.

Any by the way..for what its worth...there is a place for "peening" in gunmaking/gunsmithing. For instance.. I know a handful of trained gunmakers who tighten forend irons by doing just that. Never say never.

Dustin

Buzz:
Despite all the "Expert advice" you have read here, I'd be circumspect. If the gun is tight, don't worry. If the gun is loose, I'd find a responsible double gunsmith to evaluate it. It won't be in your home town. I'd try JJ in Enid OK if I were you.

In Jack Rowe’s video he shows how to peen the bite to move the top lever to the right. Jack is no hack.

ken: your advise is the correct course. if it aint broke dont fix it. when it is broke, take to an expert for fixin.

Buzz,

I'd take Mr. Apperson's advice [I'd use an 's', but I alawys get castigated for it;-)] .. fast. Not quickly, FAST!

If your situation is from hinge pin wear there is a process known as 'plasma spray' that I believe is being utilized by a well known gunsith [K.E.; I can't spell] in LA. Perhaps Bill S. would care to send you a PM or post here about that. It is minimally invasive, when done/applied correctly and can be better than new.

Good advice indeed. Plasma spray does not produce the heat zone input that TIG (tungsten inert gas) welding does- I am always cautious when someone wants to TIG weld certain areas of double guns- as heat moves or transfers, and from the thicker mass of metal always towards the thinner mass- TIG welding to build up a top rib extension (LC Smith- Ithaca NID, AH Fox- and others) you want to remember that the rib extension is either brazed or silver soldered in place- depending on the maker and vintage of the gun- and excessive heat input can cause that braze or solder to migrate and loosen- and then you will have a real problem indeed.

tw & foxie: pray, do tell us mo bout dis plasma spray stuff...

wood hit hep mah aiken back?

or maybe ah shud jes go an google hit?

Wearing safety googles, face shield or a welding hood with appropriate numerical shaded safety lens is always a good idea when working with any of the welding processes- unless you want to become an instructor in the Stevie Wonder driving school!!

I would bet a lot that the pin is not the problem. It may be the bolt like Fusil mentioned or something else.

Also, I believe English shotguns were traditionally made to have the toplever center when the gun was closed (this isn't the case with all of them today). I think they did this with the way the bolt/spindle worked with each other.

If your 'smith doesn't know this stuff, get your gun away from him ASAP. All he'll do is mess it up and make more work for another gunsmith down the road.

And if the gun needs a new pin, put in a new 'friggin pin. You're talking about a Boss, not some Spanish thing or something like that. Fix it the right way. Best guns deserves to be treated in the best manner possible. Don't abuse your's with short cuts and second rate repairs.

OWD

Thank you all for your opinions. I am far from being a gunsmith and this thought of hammering on the lumps sorta made me shudder. I have read this peening can be a remedy but it seems diagnosing the problem first would be the best way to go. This gun seems tight on the action and shoots fine. I am going to send it to Ken Evursull in LA who has done work for me before.

Dustin,
I agree with that method of tightening a forend iron. And like any technique, there's nice work and not so nice work when doing this.

The cleanest example of this was a set of 3 Krieghoff subgauge barrels I had that had been around the block. A gunsmith had used a small ballbearing or similar on each side of the forend lump, and apparently squeezed in a vice or similar process, just ahead of the rear surface, to push metal rearward. Nice and neat, no hammer marks and no shock from hammering that might dislodge the solder/braze of the lump.

Hey guys...

I have no Boss's here. Likely never will.

But, if the bolt fully engages, the gun is tight on face, and there is no evident wear or sloppiness any place that will accelerate wear in other places..

Just because the lever is past center, do we have a problem?

If the gun is Boss then there are two or three things to consider .Firstly it is the spindle that is worn or has "twisted" with years of use . The simple remedy is to heat it up and set it back ,then re harden and temper .It could also be that it has worn both in the body and on the spindle cam ware it comes to a stop . Again the simple answer is to build up the leading edge. add to this possible ware on the bolt "stop" ,the bit that stops it going in too far.
Without seeing it all is educated guess work ,but those are the points I would look at first . This will entail stripping the gun and checking the position of lever and spindle both with and without the bolt in . Bite is another matter .

To the best of my recollection I have three doubles on which the top lever was made to center & remains centered after more than 100 years each. One is American (Lefever), one English (J P Clabrough) & one German (J P Sauer & Son). Of these three only the Lefever has bolt wear compensation. The lefever is a side pivot opener with a vertical bolt entering the rib extension from the rear. Compensation is applied via a screw through the top tang over the bolt.
Both the Clabrough & Sauer have double underbolts with a Doll's Head. The notches in the underlugs are simply cut on a horizontal plane with the bolts fitting with minimum clearance to allow bolting. Both show considerable use yet both remain tight with no slop in the bolting. Sort of makes one wonder if the "Tapered" bolts to provide wear compensation doesn't actually induce as much wear as they compensate for. None of these guns have a latch for the lever, it being cammed over in closing. As the bolt comes in line with the notch it snaps home. "IF" the bbls are closed smoothly yet firmly, the bolt actually snaps home virtually without touching the notch surface to produce friction. A wear compensating bolt always seats with friction on the taper.
The Lefever also bolts tight, but of course I cannot say if it has ever been adjusted or not.

Interesting observation, Miller.

I can see the logic in that, and it may well be the case.

Still, the wear compensating systems were developed in response to wear developing in uncompensated designs, no?

Buzz
You should take you Boss gun to a real gunsmith like gunman. Don't give it to some red neck with a CAT cap on.

Ken Eversull is classified as a "real" gunsmith.

Dustin

Mr Red Dot,
If may read between the lines here, and I could be completely wrong, but from the little information provided in your profile and your three eloquent posts I think it would be safe to assume that you’re in England…I can also see that you are somewhat biased in your opinion as to just whom should be working on all these misfortunate examples of the British gunmakers art.
So do yourself a favor…and this should be relatively easy for you, please call Nigel Beaumont at Purdeys and ask him to tell you just whom this Ken Eversull fellow in the swamps of Louisiana is…..just remember to take your foot out of your mouth before you ring him

All Best

CJ

Well stated, Claudio.

SRH

My late father had a German 16 gauge side by with double un derlocking lugs and Greener crossbolt. A nice gu, but it had shot loose over the years. He took it to a gunsmith in Fresno. This fool proceeded to lock the barrels in a padded vise and peened the underlocking lugs and the crossbolt extension with a center punch. This was his idea of tightening up the action. I was 16 at the time and while I was able to shoot it, I had my concerns. In Christmas of 1975 I got the gun for a Christmas present. I turned around and took it to a gunsmith in Sacramento. He helli arced the peens and filed them down to where they were flush with the lugs and crossbolt extension. Never had any problems after that.

Here's a simple test, try shimming the barrel hook with a small strip of 20lb printer paper. If the barrel hook moves appreciably to the right, I'd suspect that you need to build up your barrel hook or spindle or both. At any rate, it's a simple test, it won't hurt your gun and it could tell you a lot.
Steve

Two things here I think worthy of note;
1st if the bbl hook (hinge) is worn & the breech end of the bbls have moved forward off face this will allow the bolts to go further forward, moving the lever left.
2nd on the other hand if the hinge is not worn & the bbls are tight on face the lever to the left would likely be from bolt wear. In this case shimming the hook would prevent the bbls fully closing which would bring the lever back some to the right, but this would be a false indication.

Gentlemen , I Think there is some confusion here. The position of the lever has nothing to do with the joint. Many guns that are badly off the face or very loose have lever's that stop at strap center . Other guns that are well on face and tight in the action may have lever's that come past center . Certainly when a gun is rejointed and has had the barrel moved back with an oversize pin then yes the lever when entering the bite will stay to the right,until it has been let in . On an English gun the lever should stop at center when the barrel is off. An ideal bite is that when the gun is closed normally the lever will stop just short of center which with minimal pressure will fully close . Slamming it shut which I do not recommend should close the lever fully.
The only reasons a lever comes past center on any English gun is wear on the lever work and nothing else.

Gunman;
Note the original question here does not state this to be an English gun. My last answer here was bsed on the assumtion it has wear compensating (tapered) bolts. These will in most guns allow the lever to rotate to the left of center for the purpose of wear compensation. In the case of a tapered underbolt if the bbl moves forward off face the bolt will advance by the same distance the bbls have moved, which will allow the lever to rotate left.

On a gun properly on face the bbls should seat against the standing breech leaving a few thousdanths gap between the flats & action flat. Slight hinge wear will allow the bbls to close against the flats which will in the case of compensating bolts cause the lever to rotate slightly further left.

"IF" though the gun is properly on face the bbls should not be brought further to the rear causing the gap between the flats to be increased for the purpose of compensating for bolt wear.

As I said in my last post we have two distinct wear points & these shold be treated individually, though the one can have a slight influence on the other in some cases.

Miller point taken but it dose appear we were talking about a Boss gun. The topic strayed as is common and others had talked about "shimming " etc . The majority of guns that I have worked on all have some facility to have the lever come to a stop .I am not familiar with some of the American made guns to which you were possibly referring . A down side to this method of construction is that when the bolt /bites wear the lever will not travel any further forward so that with continued use the bite wear rate increases and the net effect is that the gun will get progressively looser and will "shoot off the face " .