I was recently surfing the net, and came across a beautifully engraved Remington 11-48 by Arnold Griebel who was a very well respected engraver in Chicago in the 40's, 50's and into the 60's.
I enjoy good vintage engraving and wonder what others think of his work. How do you rate his work in comparison to custom work by say Remington and Winchester.

Arnold was very well thought of in his time. I love my Model 32 Remington that he engraved. He was promoted as the best in his era by E.C. Prudhomme, an engraver and critic. John Amber also featured Arnold's engraving prominently in his publications. Where can I look at that Remington 11-48? OK, found it on gunsinternational. I have found most Griebel work to be signed.

Did Arnold sign his work hidden in his engraving? My Model 21 was featured in the Autumn Edition of double Gun. It is agreed upon my a number of engravers that this gun was his work. I could not find were it was signed. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Phil

I had Mr Griebel engrave a Ballard and a high wall Winchester in the early 1960s. In each case, I returned them to him for his "signature" which was placed near the trigger. It is not hidden, but is quite small "Engr by A Griebel".

On the first (the Ballard), when I made the request to add his signature, he said "It is not traditional to sign engraving". I had the same experience with another German trained engraver of the same age group. I think they signed work they were especially proud of, but perhaps did not on lesser examples.

I guess some is and some isn't, but I question some attributions given by supposed experts. Phil, let's take a look at your gun. What page? I assume you are referring to the Autumn 2011 issue of Double Gun Journal.

Rating the skill and artistic ability of various engravers (which I am frequently asked to do)is something of a tricky business. People who own the work of a particular engraver or factory shop have a financial interest that sometimes colors their opinion.

That said, and to try answer Bill's question, in the overall, Griebel's work was superior to the average run of Remington and Winchester work because he was a freelance artist who generally did work for a more exclusive clientele. "Factory" engraving is usually done to a pattern that has been established at a previous time by the shop's master, or a previous master rather than by the craftsman actually doing the engraving.

Griebel is best known as a gun engraver but until his retirement, he was a full time die engraver and a part time gun engraver. Die engravers are usually quite adept at sculpted relief which shows in the realism of Griebel's relief game scenes. Nevertheless the relief animals by Remington's Carlton Ennis done on the F Premier guns are of the highest quality and equal to Griebel's. As to Winchester' factory work, I have not seen any on Griebel's level unless commissioned to an outside engraver like Sam Welch or Kurt Horvath.

The subject of whose work is superior to who's is often the subject of debate whenever engravers gather (in person or on line). My opinions are based on the study of thousands of examples and my own experience as an engraver but it is still just one man's opinion.

Here is a link to a discussion of favorite engravers going on now on the Engravers Cafe' web forum: http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?11549-favorite-engravers-of-all-time

Reagrds,
Roger

I'm pretty sure there is a revolver in the latest Julia catalog done by him with the assumption it was made for a member of his family due to the profuse engraving.

The article on my 21 in in the Autumn 2011 edition. Pages 114-126. Tom Archer did a fine write up and Terry Allen did some great pictures.
The winter edition also has a gun I owned when the article was written. Not Griebel's work, but a fine engraved A2. PG 102-121. Some days even us regular guys get lucky if we in the right place at the right time. I will do some investigating near the trigger when things settle down this week for a posible signature on the 21.
Phil

Thanks Roger for your timely comments---I have both your books and use them regularly as reference.
Phillip, it sounds like you have a fine Griebel engraved M21---lucky you---I'm a M21 fan but have never found an engraved one thay I like or could afford. I have misplaced my DGJ copy, will have another look.
And Eightbore and Terry, you both have fine guns as well.
Thanks everyone.

I have looked my 12 gauge 21 over closely once again, but find no markings from Griebel. That said everything points to being done by Griebel.
After 64 years the coin finish and engraving are still as nice as the day the gun was received by the owner in 1947.
Can anyone give me the name of a good appraiser? I have been contemplating selling. I shot 2 limits of dove with this gun and then parked it in the safe. The only gun I own that I will not shoot again as it is just so nice.

I looked at the 21 in the DGJ article. Very nice gun. About my Model 32, a friend asked if I could sell it for him. The price he asked was a fraction of its value because he knew nothing of Arnold G. I tried to get him to ask more but he insisted that the price was what he wanted for it. I asked whether he would object if I bought it. He said that he would be happy if I bought it. The 32 is blued with gold inlays, very striking but not as involved as your 21.

When I researched Phil's Model 21, I went over the entire work with a glass and never found an engraver's signature, or any symbols that remotely resembled an engraver's Mark. I then went thru my collection of period Gun Digests and various books on engraving, studying and comparing Phil's gun to the work of those featured artists. Griebel's work was regularly featured up to his retirement; and I am personally convinced that the work done on Phil's gun was done by Griebel. Given his reputation as an engraver, combined with the fact that Arnold Griebel and The Marshall Field Company were both located in Chicago; gives further credence to the conclusion that Phil's gun, originally presented to the CEO of Marshall Field, was engraved by Griebel.

I'm not trying to hi-jack this thread but back up into the 1970's Marshall Fields had a really nice firearms department. At one time John Amber, now deceased, who was the longtime editor of the Shooters Bible or the Gun Digest(I can't remember which) was the manager of this department.
Sadly how times have changed in Chicago.
Jim

I would like to hear more about this Marshall Field/John Amber connection. Anyone know. By the way, Amber was the editor of Gun Digest. Shooter's Bible was the catalog of the Stoeger Arms Corporation. Both are interesting research vehicles.

Gun Digest 35th 1981 "My Triumphs in Gun Collecting" by John Amber covers his time at Marshall Field & Co.

I think Amber's friend,Dennis, checks this forum out and maybe he will chime in with what he knows.

Michael, you told us one time that you had trashed AR beyond a certain year. I immediately cleared out a bit of shelf space and throw them away as I read them now. I am surprised that you still have your 1981 Gun Digest. However, on checking, I find that I didn't quit until 2001. Murphy

I haven't quit yet. Have 'em all. Does anyone know if a cross reference index is available for the GD articles. Sometimes it takes quite a while to find the article I'm looking for.

Roger

Roger, I've not heard of a Gun Digest index. It is something I would compile for them, but would appreciate them doing it for us.

There is an index by author in the Gun Digest Treasury volumes, up to 1994 in the 7th editions.

Ghost. For appraisals you night consider John Allen (http://firearmsappraisalservices.com). He has not done any work for me, but I have spent several hours with him at a gun show, where our tables were back-to-back