Have any of you dealt with Paul Crosnoe or Gamefair, Ltd.? They have Model 21s for sale. Paul Crosnoe has a Winchester 21 Trap 12ga. 30" full & full. Factory vent. S.S.T. Automatic ejectors. Beavertail. 14 1/2 LOP replacement pad. 96-97%. Very nice grain in wood. Factory letter. He is asking $5,850 for it. Gamefair has a 21 with Pistol grip, single trigger, ejectors, beavertail forend. 28” barrels choked Full and IC. 98% finish remaining on an old restoration. A great 21 for clays or the field. Simmons vent rib. 13 1/2” x 1 5/8” x 2 5/8”. $3,495 NEW PRICE. I wrote to Gamefair concerning the price of the 21 and they sent the following: "The fact that the gun has been restored and has the Simmons rib affect the price quite a bit. This gun is a nice shooter,not a collector piece. You can see better photos of the gun on our website gamefairltd.com. When you get to the home page, click on guns,click on American guns, and click on the description of the gun to bring up photos. If you have any questions please call me at 615-353-0602. Thanks,John Allen." I am looking for a side by to take to Bull Run Regional Shooting Center or Fairfax Rod and Gun Club to try and bust clay pigeons with. I think that either one of these would do the trick. Any opinions or recommendations?

Colin: I think John Allen at Gamefair is a stand up guy. I believe he worked for Dunn's in the old days. I recently bought a Hussey from him and feel like I got a good, fair deal. I was told this gun had chopper lump barrels....they were dovetailed. I wonder if he knew the difference??? He gives a 3 day inspection and I could have returned the Hussey with a full refund had I chosen to do so. Paul Crosnoe is...well a gun dealer but so is john Allen. I've found it best to know what you're doing when dealing with gun dealers.

I appreciate the rapid response and the information regarding Game Fair. I was impressed by what John Allen sent me concerning the 21. He was very forthcoming as to why the price of the gun was what it is. It sounds like he knows what he is talking about. By the way, how well does the Hussey shoot? I went on the web and pulled down a web site that had some pictures of the gun: nice looking English side by. Again, many thanks for you response. It will go a long way towards my making my decision.

Colin,
I purchased a shotgun from Paul Crosnoe and ended up returning it; not due to misrepresentation. The transaction was very smooth with no questions or objections and a prompt refund; I would certainly buy from him again.

Yes, both fellows are gun dealers.

C.

I recently purchased from Crosnoe and many years ago traded with John Allen. In both cases there were very minor surprises, but in both cases I felt the deal was fair and I kept the guns. Both were willing to accept a return.

I ditto the above sentiments between the two. From past experience though Paul will take a gun back if after doing your research you find you bought a rubber ducky even if its a month or two later

Bought from Gamefair, good results. Prompt delivery, as described except for choke measurement. You might have them double check choke measurements if critical. I did not follow-up as the more open than described was better for me anyway.

I drop in from time to time in Game Fair LTD and at the very least I'd say John is fair. I've purchased from Paul Crosnoe and he will all but bend over backwards to accommodate you.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

All my buying experiences with Paul Crosnoe have been exceptional.

Check out Orvis - I believe they had some 21s in their gun room.

I live near Gamefair and have bought several guns from John- nothing highly collectible mind you. I don't mind paying a little more from a brick and mortar shop just to compensate for browsing priveleges. I'd say every transaction has been at fair retail value, and everything has been as advertised.

Colin, you are buying the gun. A good dealer helps, but in the long run, you are buying the gun. The Crosnoe gun is bored full and full and will increase in value. The stock may be way higher than you are used to shooting. The Allen gun may suit your purposes better, but will never be worth a dollar more than you pay for it. He was very honest about that. If you can live with full and full, buy the Crosnoe gun. I would look for a looser choked original gun from another reputable dealer.

I have known John and dealt with him for close to 30 years. He has always treated me fairly and been honest in all transactions.

Colin: IMHO For Model 21's I suggest you take a look at William Larkin Moore and Sons. Jerry

OK, two different guns from reputable dealers. The Crosnoe gun is at least semi-collectable. Why would you pay for collector value in a "using" gun that will almost certainly suffer scratches and wear, and will probably need stock work (trap guns normally shoot high compared to guns used for other games, such as skeet or sporting clays, or for hunting) all of which will reduce the value of the gun, as originality is important in a collectable piece. Buy the Gamefair gun and get it fitted, use it, and if you decide you want a high condition collectable at a later time, get one.

Very sound advice, IMO.

I've been pleased with purchases from Paul Crusnoe.

Jerry Goldstein
St. Louis, MO

Paul Crosnoe and John Allen are both very reputable and fair. John is a personal friend of mine, known him for about 30 years or so. Either one of these guys will treat you right.

Having said that, the l.o.p on the Game Fair gun is very short, and that would be a big issue for me. I would prefer a 30"-barrelled gun for target work also. The comb on the Crosnoe gun is high enough that it can be shaved down to fit you perfectly as well.

Being original and more suited to the purpose, the Crosnoe gun just sounds a lot better to me, even considering the price difference.
JR

For those that know John - does he sale guns that he has on consignment for others or is he mostly selling guns that he owns?