I was just reading a blurb on Huffington Post about a soldier who was wounded twice in Afganistan, home on leave, who had to pawn or sell his two purple hearts at a pawn shop to make ends meet, The shop owner, Bryan VandenBosch, was quoted to say that he would not sell the medals in hope that the soldier could reclaim them. A lot of folks have it tough around the holidays but this story struck home. I remember my Navy days when I had to hock my graduation watch almost every month to buy baby formula. I figured that I could kick in a few bucks to get this guy's medals back & I figured that there might be a few others here who would as well.

The Shop is Named: A-Z Outlet, 221 N. River Ave., Holland, MI 49424 & the phone number is (616) 738-1603. If anyone here lives near there & could check it out & let us know the tab I'll send him my check.

Best Regards, George

Holland is about 40 clicks due West from me George. I'll give Mr. Vandenbosch a call and find out what's up with this- I don't know Huffington from Adam's off ox-- but apparently you do, and if you say they have the straight dope on this situation, I'll look into it and get back to you by your private e-mail down in the Palmetto State- where I see on the evening news you are having 80 degree summer weather-- enjoy-- and Merry Xmas too- RWTF

I'm not going to encourage or discourage anyone from donating their money to this, but I do have a couple questions and a couple suggestions.

Q1. Why does this particular soldier not have enough money to make ends meet, such that he decided (of all things) he had to pawn his purple hearts? Why is he so in debt or overcommitted that he did this? Doesn't he get paid twice a month? His creditors can't wait? He can't invoke the Soldier's and Sailor's Act (the one which precludes suits and judgments against servicemembers by their creditors) against his creditors? Why didn't he "lose" his TA-50 (or even just his rain parka) - he'd have gotten more for that than he could for a purple heart or two?

Q2. Why would any pawn shop want to loan against these medals? You can buy just about any medal (save a Medal of Honor) on EBay or from the various sutlers and Army-Navy surplus outfits for well under $100. The value involved is minimal - doing the paperwork would make it unprofitable.

Q3. You mean to tell me his first sergeant or sergeant major didn't have a little slush fund set aside in the company to loan to soldiers who are coming up short? Every first sergeant and sergeant major I've ever known either had one or could point to someone who did. Not a lot of money - a couple hundred at most - but enough to tide over a soldier who had a bad series of events hit him all at once. And it was for legitimate debts or problems - which this situation does not strike me as being.

This strikes me as the kind of public relations stunt that gets sprung just in advance of the holidays to get everyone talking about it over the holiday dinner and, in so doing, guide the discussion for the coming months or year or so. We're about due to have this pop up now, because stories like this are the kind of thing that takes a couple days to propagate. I remember the Great Ebonics Scandal of 1995 or 1996, which got sprung right before the holidays, set off angry conversations over many holiday tables, and you still remember today. It was also total bullshit. This is more of the same thing. "Oh, the poor soldiers" we're supposed to feel, and genuflect while reaching for our wallets. He volunteered for the privilege of serving and, if he's so irresponsible or feckless with his money that he decided to pawn his medals, he should be chaptered to make room for a better, more responsible replacement.

Oh, and this pawn shop now has its name, address, phone and contact info spread all over the web in front of many, many eyes and the soft minds behind them. Pretty effective free advertising spread for free, no?

Second suggestion: This belongs on the odds-and-ends thread until such time as it disappears from the web.

Dave I am a retired First Sergeant and no we did not have slush funds. 8 years ago when I was in an E-5 with 3 kids qualified for food stamps. Like you though I do have questions about this. As you say the medals are worth very little it's the act that is worth everything. If he lost any of his gear and it was found out by inspection or whatever, he is required to go sign for replacement gear and the money will be taken out of his next paycheck. The government is very slow to pay anyone what it owes to them. It's very fast and efficient at collecting what it is owed. What ticks me off about your post the most you have already condemned someone of being an unfit soldier. That seems at odds being that you said that you believe the whole thing is fiction. I've seen many good soldiers and marines that had financial problems due too many different factors. I never chaptered anyone out that for that reason alone. Just my 2 cents.

Hello, I agree with Mike. I'm a retired MSG (US Army) and I can attest to what Mike has said. There is NO slush funds that I was ever aware of. Now, I have loaned money to a couple of my troops (this can be a very bad idea, but you have to judge the situation at hand). Money can be very tight, especially for those troops who are in the E-1 to E-5 pay grades, the moves, deployments and cost of living off post (if approved) can really strap a family.

The Army frowns on debt and many who want to make the Army their home for 20 years will do anything to stay out of debt. You don't know how many calls you get from used car dealers etc wanting their payments, prior to pay day. So I can see were some guys pawn lots of their stuff. Believe me, there are more Pawn Stores and other "Businesses" that prey on young soldiers outside of a base than you can shake a stick at.

As to this situation, I don't know all the facts. It does seem like the Pawn Store owner is being a good soul. I think he's loaning the money on faith more than anything.

As Mike said, just my 2c

All the best!

Greg

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/...le-heart-pawnsh

Time for the William Sydney Porter ending- I just spoke to bryan on the phone- and in the true spirit of both Christmas, and honoring our Vets- his medals are being returned post haste, and some local Brother members of the Legion post in Holland are taking care of this Vet's needs-- maybe NOt the Gift of the Magi, but close- Thanks George, for your kind gesture and offer to help, we need more folks in America who think like you do> RWTF

Fair enough. I called it a "slush fund", insofar as top sergeants always seemed to have money available when it was needed for good purposes like emergencies that needed to be met. And I recall having troops living on the economy in Germany where all they could afford was a barely-heated garage because they got so little pay, there was not any on-post housing to be had, and the mark exchange rate was really bad. And I had one of my squad leaders chaptered out for bad debts.

I also recognize there are a lot of sleazy folks surrounding every base, preying on junior soldiers. It's a given. But, if this kid doesn't know how to deal with that, either he wasn't listening or his chain of command failed him by not teaching him properly.

And, not to put too fine of a point on it, but "losing" your TA-50 at the back door of the surplus store is a good way to get the Army to give you an sort-of-interest-free loan for a month or so. It takes at least that long for a survey to hit your pay. He'd be back off leave and, possibly, out in the field where money is a lesser need.

All that said, the whole situation smells bad. As in "bogus". I have never heard of a pawnbroker who would loan money because he had a "good heart"; they hear every sob story the world has invented and survive as businesses only if they make money. "Good-heartedness" and making money are not mutually dependent - they might happen and they might not. To be frank, if I were the pawnbroker's landlord, I'd be making sure my security deposit was paid up and do what I could under the lease to make sure my rent was going to be paid because I'd be concerned he was running his business into the ground through bad judgment and this was Exhibit A of it.

But, if you want to give money to this, knock yourself out. It's your money, after all. Speaking for myself, I wouldn't want to be ratifying whatever got the soldier into this fix by ponying up my money.

When I was in the Army, I was aware of many instances where hundred dollar items were pawned for quite a bit less. Even adjusting for inflation, some kids needed twenty dollars to make through the week. That pawnbroker may have simply figured out a way to get a bunch of mileage for his advertising dollar.

When I clicked the link, I got a sucker warning that my computer needed checking for a possible virus. I've had this happen before and it was a PIA malware that took forever to remove. I don't know for sure if it was the above link's site or something earlier, but for heavens sake don't get suckered into "checking your computer" by clicking any link. I had to turn the computer off by the switch. This can be nasty stuff on the computer. Gil

Anyone that ever spent anytime in the military can tell you that 18-20'ish soldiers,marines,airmen and sailors are not,as a rule,smart with their money.Alcohol,testosterone,buddies,etc. all conspire to make you spend it as fast as you get it in most cases. Most outfits have someone who serves as a "bank" for his less frugal buddies and loans money out on a regular basis.I can believe anything when it comes to money and the military.

I can write a book about lower level enlisted finances, but I'll just give you a paragraph or two. I've always been pretty good about numbers, so my financial life has been pretty problem free. However, in 1967, I went to work for my uncle on a two year contract. My first monthly check, before deductions, was $78.00. Uncle gives an automatic raise at two months to $87.00, before deductions. Sam (by now I'm getting a bit more familiar with him) sent me to school for a few months and I was lucky enough to be top graduate and got awarded a stripe and a pay raise to $131.00 a month, before deductions. Uncle Sam must have thought I was some smart fellow because he sent me back to school for another couple of months. Lo and behold, I was top graduate again and got another stripe and a raise to $214.00 a month, again, before deductions. Now, let me be clear about this. I got these raises and stripes, but none of my buddies got them because they were not the top graduates in their schools. Most of them, when I was making $214.00, before deductions, after six months on the job, were still making $87.00 a month. Now, if you were married, and somehow ended up in my predicament, you got a few bucks extra, don't remember how many, because I was not married at the time. When I got to the $214.00 level, I was on top of the world, because I was transferred to Fort Lee, Virginia which was close enough to go home on weekends, about 120 miles one way. I think I had the gas figured at about $3.00 each way if I really kept out of the gas pedal. The tolls through Richmond on I-95 added up to 85 cents each way. Do you realize that this is so little money today that computers don't have a "cents" key like a typewriter used to. I fixed the toll business by driving through downtown Richmond to avoid $1.70 in tolls each time I went home. I could go on, but you get the picture. We survived, but not because of any help from the U.S. Congress. Bill Murphy, U.S. Army Retired after two years service.

RWTF: Thanks for the call & the update. The American Legion is always there for our servicemen & women. I hope that our guys and your Christmas is GREAT!The lower enlisted pay grades never had enough spare money even if single much less with families. God Bless our men & women who guard the wall!

Best Regards and Merry Christmas, George

Bill: I know where you're coming from. I went from RDSN to RD3 & then RD2 in two years, not for the chevrons on my crow but for the few extra dollars every two weeks to help keep my family alive.

Best Regards and Merry Christmas.....George

I agree in principle with what you have said about Pawnbrokers- there are three segments of any economy that will always prosper in tough times: Pawnshops, Auctioneers and Funeral Directors-

I spoke at length with Bryan, he is not a Veteran, but he agreed to return the two Purple Hearts to the soldier in need. Not just so much due to the Holiday spirit (Scrooge sees the light, so to speak) but because he told me I didn't badger him to do this, as some other callers may have done- He also saw something about this on the News web, and had pretty much decided to do this anyway, so he is on my "good guy" list--

I recall a lot of the off-base Stateside car dealers, pawn shops, schlock jewelry stores- that preyed without mercy on the junior NCO's- and in the USMC you are that when you make E-4-- Corporal-- Read the story of our legendary sniper Gunny Carlos Hathcock when he was a a Pfc. or even L/Cpl and wanted to get married at LeJeune--his CO was strongly against this, and this was in 1962--

I do not follow the Huffington news line, so I am grateful to my friend George Lander for posting this here, for our response. We as a Country ask our young men to go into Harm's Way, but when they return, especially wounded, sometimes it seems that we "look the other way"-- Not in this case, however- Semper Fi!!!

I didn't have any trouble clicking on the link.
Did anyone else have a problem?

Pete

To add a couple of details to my story, I did not take another promotion for the rest of my two years, still made $214.00 a month, before deductions, until my ETS in November of 1969. I had been to school before being drafted, so I knew a little about money. Most guys didn't know. During the time I was working for Sam, I tried to figure out how service men managed to do all the drinking and gambling I had heard about and seen in the movies. In our little group, it was a very occasional thing to go out on the town. The on post beer halls and outdoor beer gardens were very inexpensive. I never did experience the gambling. Car insurance was impossible for me. To register a car on post, you had to show proof of insurance, so I had to hide my car and keep moving it. Once, a tow truck driver came into our building to ask about a car in the parking lot with no registration. He had parked the tow truck behind my Volkswagen, blocking it against a barrier. Several of my friends picked up the car and moved it over the barrier. When the tow truck driver came out of the building, his truck was blocking an empty parking space. It's just what you had to do to make it on $214.00 a month, before deductions.

Bill, when I was in Basic Training at Fort Polk, a friend kept his unregistered VW in a visitor parking lot, at a visitor housing complex, the whole time we were there and never did get caught!

Don, it was a GD nightmare. I was a law abiding citizen and couldn't own a car. I guess I somehow survived. I don't know how I got through the war. I guess we were patriots. Yes, we were patriots, and still are.

Eightbore, I don't understand how you were prevented from owning a car. You certainly would have been required to prove legal ownership (registration) of the car and minimum liability insurance but that standard would have been consistent with the state's civilian laws. And today most all states have a law requiring certain insurance to operate a vehicle. I agree that going to the Provost Marshal's vehicle inspection and registration process was a pain in the butt. Pay has always been miserable and will probably always be. Congress doesn't see the military as having an effective vote and finds it quite convenient to effect savings on military pay as a result. The junior enlisted grades were especially strapped - but they were draftees, provided room and board. The voluntary moves off post were certainly a problem for them unless someone else was helping them with money. I remember spending a disproportionate amount of my days trying to take care of the problems which arose with those who acquired families while still in the junior categories. Congress felt these were not supposed to bring along dependents as that entailed great cost for the supporting structure required. Have to remember about 2/3ds were juniors and were only minimally trained before their first enlistment expired. We were expected to be at least as much surrogate parents for these young people as their unit commanders and that was a very heavy load when you had 400 or 500 reckless, inventive, and generally rebellious youngmen with too much time on their hands. You had to love them but darned if they didn't bring tears of frustration more often than laughter.

Jerry, my friend, at $87.00 a month, all laws about "minumum liability insurance", regardless of whether it was a military post regulation or a "state civilian law" as you describe it, were impossible to comply with. And, as industrious young soldiers, we did not comply. End of story. No, I owned a bunch of cars, I just couldn't afford to insure them on $87.00, minus deductions.

Eightbore, wasn't much better for the jr officers either. We started at $222mo, Had to chip in $25 for the officers club even though we couldn't afford to use the dreary place, had a requirement to provide all our own uniforms which exceeded half a year's pay initially, and there was no option of not owning a car. The Battalion Commander ordered monthly officer's parties which took another $25 plus or minus per month. And don't forget every payday there was some charity we had to support 100 participation and also $18.50 for the mandatory voluntary purchase of a Savings Bond. I remember thinking I was rich after getting the fogey for 2 years time in service, promotion to 1st Lt and going on Parachute pay almost simultaneously. Wife and kid to support too. Wife had to leave her job as a nurse to accompany me and she was earning more than I was. I stayed broke for 27 years of service, only got some money after retirement. But it was a heck of a fun ride most of the time because the company was a lot better than we saw among the "sillyvilians" who really seemed to lack any overarching higher purpose to their work.

RHD nails it! I spent a few years, enlisted at good ole Ft Bragg in the late 1990s. The young enlisted personnel were the worst at personal finances. I didn't dabble in the all weekend binge drinking fests and strip club crawl on the weekends after payday but I knew plenty of younger soldiers who did. They were always flat broke. A lot did not grow out of their bad habits when they rose into the junior NCO ranks.

I have also seen young enlisted soldiers just spend their money frivolously without care, racking up major credit card debt on crap they really could live without.

I would want to find out more about this soldier's predicament and how he got there in the first place before jumping on the bandwagon and offer my sympathy for his current situation that he finds himself in.

I think a lot depended on where you were and what year. I went in in 1963 and I believe the pay was $78 a month and I had a $50 savings bond ($37.50) taken out of that. even as a kid I was very frugal and saved my money.

I was very lucky, for 2 1/2 years I was stationed in a very small German town where what little money I had went a long ways. If memory serves me correctly a beer in town was about $.20. Cars were completely out of the question but were never needed. Public transportation could take me anywhere in Europe for very little money.

Jerry, thanks for the insight into Commissioned Officers' life. Michael, one of my commanding officers let me in on a little secret about savings bonds. We could "participate" in the bond program for as little as $6.25 a month, dividing the $18.75 fee for the $25.00 bond into three monthly contributions. On returning from a several day unauthorized leave, I was called to Captain Hamner's office for a consultation. He informed me that, after a period of days that I had exceeded, unauthorized leave turns to desertion. He further informed me that I was his sole holdout in the company savings bond program. I immediately asked him where I should sign. That is when he informed me of the minimum participation level of $6.25 a month.

After OCS in 1967, I ended up as a Company Commander and Depot Commander of an ammo depot in Korea. After sending almost all of my pay home to my new bride, I was really strapped, but fortunately, the C.O. several turns before me managed to twist the pay regs and got the officers entitled to EOD pay (we weren't EOD certified, but did spend a day or two each month blowing up hazardous, obsolete ammo)

Had one E4 who managed his money very well. Never went to the local cat houses on payday - he would wait until about the 25th of the month. The price of love was about 10% of payday love. He also did a bit of loansharking. I have no idea what ever became of him, but I'll be he became a success.

Or be walking around with a limp from a set of broken kneecaps- I love to play poker- 7 card stud- but stayed away from the crap games, still won't touch dice today unless I'm playing Monopoly.
Lotsa sharks preying on soldiers and Marines--I enlisted in 1960 and was Hon. Discharged in 1970-- two 4 year hitches plus the NCo extensions after the Tet FUBAR occured- I had EOD at CourtHouse bay- Lejeune-USMC Engr. School- and aced it- loved to drop trees in those chigger infested swamps with a girdle of C-4 primed with Det Cord--possibly due to my experiences as a lad with farmers- blowing out stumps and large rocks with a stick of "DuPont persuasion" and into a crevice packed with nitrogen fertilizer damped with kerosene- Ka-Boom--

I have read all the posts here- My personal take on this- This soldier earned two Purple Hearts- that is telling to me- he wasn't some REMF or 'sick-bay commando" and I will always allow extra "slack' for any combat decorated soldier, sailor, airman or Marine- Just my thoughts!!

Bill,

They never had to force me to sign up I signed up for $50 bond when I joined. As I made more money I saved more money. If you talk to a lot of other folks who were there at the same time you would get a different story. Many of them were "US" and away from their home, wives and children and not very happy about it.

I was a kid on my first big adventure and enjoyed my time there. Hindsight is always 20-20 and I did some dumb things, probably should not of told the battalion commander, when he was yelling at me, that I might see things his way if I set behind a desk all day

YES!!!!

In my many years in the military, I found that those
who stayed On the base, in military housing, and did
not venture into the towns and surrounding areas were
miserable. Those who got out and did things were very happy.

Mike

Great comment, Mike, and true. I had a great time and met great people. I feel bad for those who don't know what they missed.

Have to agree with Mike as well. Although I used post housing as much as possible, we made it a point to thoroughly explore the area surrounding us. We were moved so many times to so many different states and countries it really took some doing to get an in depth look before we were gone again, but we did get to know many different cultures and counted that as part of our pay. It made us feel a lot richer than so many we know, not in the military, who have never had a real adventure their entire lives. And my kids know what a third world country looks and smells like so they have a greater perspective on this great country they should safeguard so carefully.

An old friend who served in the USN in the 60's told me a story of the kindness of a stranger when he was in training at Naval Station Great Lakes. It was Christmas and all were given a three day pass. He went to the bus station with a group of friends who were closer to home and could travel during the three day pass. Dicky was too far from Georgia to do anything except hang out in the Chicago area with little money. While at the bus station, a uniformed Sheriff approached him and two other seamen. He asked what they were doing over the holiday and they told him. "Well, you are coming home with me for Christmas dinner." The man did this every Thanksgiving and Christmas. Dicky never forgot the kindness of that stranger or the Christmas dinner.

I was a Corporal dressed in my Marine Corps Alpha uniform (Class A for you Soldiers) standing with three fellow Marines in an airport lobby in 1980. We were all on our first all expenses paid vacation to Okinawa Japan. We were telling sea stories and the like when an older gentleman approached and asked if he could speak to us. The well versed man wove a thread of youth transitioning into life. He spoke in a way that perhaps mesmerized us. After a few minutes one of our group interrupted the spokesman of living a virtuous life and ask, “Sir, aren’t you Woody Hayes?” To that he acknowledged his name and continued to tell us of why we should get an education. I do not remember all of his words and it did take a few years for them to penetrate my thick skull but finally I understood what he meant.

Nearly two decades of service followed that brief interchange with someone famous. Upon retirement I had become a Marine Officer. I entered the civilian phase of my life with a world of experience and an MBA. Combined they landed me an interview with a large company. I think the interviewers liked me because I’m still working for them.

A lot is asked of us as Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Coast Guardsmen, and Marines. Some faced the horrors of combat and others the never-ending boredom of the supporting specialties. My favorites were of course the Navy (hospital) Corpsmen. Coming to, flat on my back and immobile, I remember some young Marines kneeling over me and calling, “Sir, sir,…” My response was “Get a Corpsman!” Most Marines hold Corpsmen in high regard. We do however forget about the cooks and others in unglamorous jobs like that. While home on leave from boot camp my father asked me to drive to pick up some parts for the farm. The trip was a couple hours drive but I didn’t mind. He told me to ask for the owner, Merv Haines. When I arrived I met Mr. Haines and he had my dad’s order ready. I was 17 and Merv must have been about 50. At the time that seemed so old… Anyway, Merv Haines asked me many questions about boot camp and the Marines before he acknowledged that he had served. He said, “I was a cook at a place called the Chosen Reservoir. They told me that everyone could cook for themselves. I picked up my rifle and went to the line.” I do not know much about Merv except that he had built a good sized farm implement business and that my father respected him.

Our country asked much of us and more of others. What military service gave and continues to give in return is experience, training, education if one takes advantage of it, and opportunity! I think that many of us who served are better persons because of what we gave and perhaps even more so because of what was taken from us. We would say of during the worst of times that it was, "Good Training!". "Everyday a holiday, every meal a feast!"

To all service men and women, past and present on this Christmas day, I am very proud to have humbly served with you. No matter your service or specialty, thank you for doing your duty.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays!

61 years ago this month at the Reservoir, the PLA learned the hard way the credo of the Corps "Every man a rifleman" when they concentrated attack on what they thought was the soft underbelly--heavy equipment operators, supply, cooks, clerks. My last living uncle was a machine gunner at Chosin with the 1st Marine Division, 5th Marines under Col. Raymond Murray. He's 86, proudly wears a burr cut and is old boot tough.

the german town looked alot like Amberg, but it has been a long long time?

It has been a long time, the city is called Zirndorf which is by furth.

I was stationed at Pinder barracks an old German antiaircraft barracks. This picture was taken shortly after the Americans occupied the base and long before my time but gives a good view of the Place. The guard house on the left of the main tower still stand all the rest was torn down for an industrial park.

True story about our legendary USMC General Lewis B. Puller Jr- the ONLY Marine in our long history to have been awarded FIVE Navy Crosses (one click below the CMH for you non-qals)At the Chosen in Korea, one of his staff reported to Puller- Sir, the Gooks have us surrounded-- what is our plan?" Chesty looked right at him and said- "Attack- and this time the little yellow bastards won't get away from us, will they?"" I think he may have taken that remark from the great Adm. William "Haul-Ass" Halsey- who said, loud and clearly for all hands on deck to hear, after the victory at Midway- that broke Yamamoto's fleet--
"When we are finished with the little yellow bastards, the only place their language will ever be spoken again will be in the bowels of Hades"-- Halsey was instrumental in getting the Navajo "Wind Talkers" code operation underway- a key point in WW2 PTO, just as the intact capture from a Kraut U-Boat in the North Sea by the Limeys- the Captain's enigma code book was a deal breaker for the ETO-- life indeed, turns on a dime--

RWTF: Kind of reminds me of what was quoted by General George Patton when asked what he would do if caught between the Germans and the Russians? "I would attack in both directions!"

Best Regards & Happy New Year......George