Dear all,

Some years ago, when I was deeply involved in old Pentax cameras, there was considerable interest in collecting data on individual cameras in one central location, available to everyone.

Since someone had to do it, and I had the necessary skills, I set up the online Pentax Screwmount Database Project. This was very popular and we collected data on several thousand cameras and lenses. I have now moved on and responsibility for maintaining the database has passed to another enthusiast.

However, I now find myself in the same kind of situation with both me and other people looking for information to date their Miroku/Charles Daly shotguns. I have just bought a 20-bore Miroku model 500 SxS, and it's very difficult to work out its age.

So, I have a plan! If Miroku/Miroku-made Charles Day and Montgomery Ward SxS owners are prepared to share information, particularly serial numbers and dates of purchase, we would be in a better position to date our shotguns.

I know that many of us didn't buy our guns new, but if someone says "I bought no.123456 new in 1969" and someone else says "I bought no. 234567 new in 1976" then that begins to give us a timeframe to work on.

I have created a database ("the Miroku SxS Project") at http://www.utting.org/miroku-index.html with links to a data input form and a data viewing form. At the moment, it contains data for one Miroku - mine! It would be great to see more.

I'm making this available as a resource for Miroku owners. So far it's cost me the grand sum of $3.98 to set up, and if fellow Miroku users want to make use of it, then I'll be very happy. If not, then nothing lost.

Take a look at the web pages. I'm not asking people give me their personal data if they don't want to.

Let me know what you think. If you think it' a good idea, please pass this message on to other groups and message boards. The more data we collect the more useful it will be.

Thanks,
Nigel.
The Miroku SxS Project (http://www.utting.org/miroku-index.html)

P.S. My name is Nigel, and I live in the UK. have been shooting since 1966 and working in & around IT since 1980. I have written many shooting-related magazine articles, and a selection are online at http://www.utting.org/shooting-index.html

Nigel,

I think this is a great idea ... the "Browning collectors" don't really accept the Miroku/Brownings as a collectable here in the US and any real info on these great shotguns is very hard to come by !!!

Miroku supplied not only Charles Daly, but Montgomery Ward here in the US .... Ward sold a very nice DT, Vent Rib, Extractor version of the Miroku in both 20 and 12, with a stainless receiver (model 350A and 351A)... great guns !!!

Good luck and I'll be posting info soome !!!

Be Safe All, Jimmy B.

Hi Jimmy,

OK, I am very happy to include Miroku-made Montgomery Ward SxS guns as well Miroku-made Charles Daly guns and plain vanilla Mirokus. I have amended the data input form to include them.

I see they my first line of user-submitted data has arrived. Thanks, John!

Nigel

Nigel, since Miroku is still very much in business, have you tried contacting them to see if they will supply SN data by year for their guns? Seems a pretty basic question, but I'd think there's a good chance they would have information that might help you.

Not that you'd want to take on an additional project, but I'd guess there'd likely be equal interest in information on SKB side by sides. I've never seen anything out there allowing one to date them based on the SN.

I once had a 12 ga Daly 500 with a 400,000+ serial number; way higher than the Dalys. It didn't have the 500 banner like Daly 500s do on the side of the receiver, but one of the barrels was roll stamped Daly 500.

Through looking around, I found that that high of a number was the regular Miroku 500 gun. One can only imagine what the story is behind that gun.

2holer,

My Miroku 500 has a serial number over 410,000. Looks as though your Daly may have been simply numbered as part of Miroku's overall sequence?

Nigel

Nigel--My Miroku, which I think came from the European market (marked Miroku only, not Daly) is SN 424945. If I remember to ask, I can verify whether it was a Euro market gun. To arrive here in the States marked Miroku only, it'd almost have to be from Europe, or else perhaps something someone in the military brought back from Japan.

Larry, If its the one you got from me it was 1st retailed in Sweden.

Mark

Nigel, sent you the data from mine. My serial number is alot lower than those posted: 189707. I have no idea when it was bought new, I got it in a trade about 10 years ago, the fellow I got it from obtained it in a trade too. All I can say it's a great little 20.

Had a Daly 500 20 ga #194738 and a 12 ga 188786. The Daly that had the roll stamped barrel was 456326

Mark--Hard to believe I still have it? Yup, that's the one--and explains the fact it's only marked Miroku.

Larry,
I hadn't thought of contacting Miroku direct, but everything I have read suggests that the data isn't available from the factory. However, for the cost of a stamp (I would e-mail but the Miroku website is in Japanese!) it would be worth asking.

With regard to SKB shotguns it wouldn't take much effort to create a second database with the data input/display screens. When I set up the data capture project for old cameras a few years ago, I had to learn two new programming languages! Fortunately things have moved on and my ISP offers a simple pick&chose front end for creating projects like this. I'll get back to you.

Just a thought: cameras made in Japan immediately after WWII were stamped 'MIOJ' (Made in occupied Japan). I wonder if there are any MIOJ-stamped Mirokus out there?

Nigel.

I would guess that some of the pre-Miroku KFC guns might stamped that way.

OK, guys, the data is beginning to arrive! If you have a Miroku, Miroku-made Charles Daly or Miroku-made Montgomery Ward SxS, it's time to join the party!

Nigel

Here's one that will bend your mind. Appears to be a Miroku 500 with a Daly series serial number. Probaly was being made when the contract with Daly ended.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=262887254

I also had a Westernfield Miroku ser. number 96740, and they ain't quite the gun the 500 is.

Info sent; Model 351A, 20 gauge, Western Field. Be interesting to see how your data base develops.

"Western field" stamp is obvious afterthought. Different size and much lighter imprint. Everything else is marked in English including original BC Miroku logo on bottom of action.

nice Miroku
this is a pretty fancy one,eh lads??
Hit this link, then hit the Google Search button that pops up,& then hit the top Hallowell link & then it comes up
Guess i cocked up the link,but it looks rather nice.
Haven't seen another one like it, but he's had it for years.
franc

My Norton blocked that site; said malicious

Franc
I can't connect either.
Steve

Daly 500 20ga #226167. Don't know anything about it as I got it second hand.

I cant seem to post the link , but its at Hallowellco.com in the euro gun section
franc

I'll bet Adam Stinson is thinking about this one!...Geo

You know me too well, George. You know me too well! I love that gun!

Are you talking about the Hallowell Gun now?
Its been there for ,jees, close to 8-10 years , I think, at least more than six....someone should make a real offer, as its still there at 6000+
Thats the nicest jap gun I ever saw...short bbls, but there are two bbl sets!
cheers
franc

Nigel,

Several numbers now added ... I also sent an email about an entry that needed additional info !!!

Miroku "true sidelocks" are rare in the US .... I actually had a 26 inch gun that had been modified with Briley thin wall chokes ... the only other sidelock Miroku besides the Hallowell gun, I've ever seen in the US !?!?

Be Safe All, Jimmy

Jimmy, weren't the Browning sidelock BSS guns built by Miroku? Lots of those about...Geo

Geo,

You are correct ... but I should clarify ... I/we are talking about "Miroku" branded sidelock guns ... basically same gun just not with the Browning spec and brand.

Be Safe All, Jimmy

2holer,

If you'd like to add your data, take a wander over to http://www.utting.org/miroku-index.html

Be glad to see you.

Nigel

Nigel : I have a Miroku/Daly Model 500. 12 bore, 30" M&F, PG. BTFE, S#188266. A beautful faux Birminghan Boxlock. Paid 375 and ran out the door. The gun was sold by an elk-hunting camp cook. Said folks in Col. don't hunt birds that much. Chops

Chops,

I picked up my 20-bore Miroku 500 just a few weeks ago and I love it already. Cost me the equivalent of about $1000 including opening the chokes to 1/4 & 1/2, and shipping. Went to a shoot on Boxing Day and straighted one of the stands with two FAST, high birds from a tower behind the shooter. Not saying that to make me look like a good shooter, just enjoying the fact that it hits exactly where I look. Several people came up to me, asked what the gun was and commented how nice it looks. They all shoot O/Us, but that's their problem!! I'll add your gun's data to the database.

Stay well,
Nigel.

Nigel: I forgot to mention that mine has double triggers, is an extractor model and has an un-matted swamped rib -- probably made for the euro market. a most excellent gun! Chops

Nigel,

I have not been able to input the data for my gun. I go to the web site, but when i click onto Input Data, nothing happens.

Here is the info on my gun:
Make: Miroku
Model: 550
Type: SxS, Double Trigger
Stock: Straight
Bore: 12
Serial # 165528
Purchase Date: Dec 2009
Purchase Cndition: Used
Purchase Location: Japan
Barrel Length: 28"
Overall Length: 43.5"

Let me know if you need any more info. Also, I have a KFC - Kawaguchiya Firearms Company, which was associated with or a sub company of Miroku. Do you want the info for that gun as well (Single Shot 12 Bore)?

Thanks,
Patrick