says, "Last chance to order Connecticut Shotgun's RBL". Orders ending. .......I guess that means the end of the line for them?

Where is this ad? I just ordered a fourth one for my youngest son and there was no talk of this from them. And no I am still waiting for the first one, as are many here but I trust Tony and like what he has done to date. Not worried but it seems curious. Did the ad state the end of the gun or just the last chance before the price goes up?

I believe They are refering to the "Launch Edition"
Pete

The ad in Shooting Sportsman is very clear in referring to the Launch Edition.

Jeff

This is the day, exactly one year ago, that I ordered, and paid for my RBL. And exactly the 365th time that my wife has asked when that expensive shotgun would be delivered. I had every confidance there would be an RBL tucked under my arm on my grouse hunt this year, and one wonders how many more days I'll be telling her it should be any day, now. We should start a pool: anyone want to guess, another 365 days?

Maybe now he can bring out a 16. That should start a new round of orders.

The board is comprised mainly of American members of a hard-working culture that prizes and rewards risk, entrepreneurship and initiative. Has anyone asked Galazan why he isn't keeping his promises? Or do members deposit their money, defer and wait for the guns to drop from his outstretched hands in his own time as some sort of charity? I'd be angry.

KY John, imagine if he had come out with a 16 at the same time as the 20. It would take years to fill all the orders, and you'd have a lot of unhappy people in the meantime.

There are lots of people like myself, waiting to see how all this shakes out with the RBL. Even if he does come out with a 16 (since I could only afford one, that is the only one I would consider buying), do I really want to wait two years for delivery? Probably not. As King said, I'd be angry.

Hmmm, angry? Nope, not yet.
When I ordered I got a promise of a good gun, an estimated delivery time and no guarantees at all. I was aware that ordering a gun from a factory still in the planning stages contained risk. My risk analysis was:
* Galazan goes Chap 11/9 - very small
* The gun is disappointing - small to medium
* The delivery schedule slips - high

What does that mean the Launch Edition. What will be different after the Launch Edition? Maybe it means that the $300.00 discount for paid in full orders will no longer be offered or maybe the price is going up. I hope it means that they do not need any more up front capital and the system is getting going and they are going to deliver a lot more guns soon. I don't follow any other gun boards but I've only heard of a handful of guns being delivered to members here. So have they delivered more than 100 guns?
The add on the website says that new orders are over one year delivery. By Thursday my order will be one year old also and I ordered in the first couple of weeks of the offer. The last time I called back in July they told me that the were going to be delivering faster with the new system in about 60 days and that I would probably get my gun around the end of November. I have my doubts. Fortunately I really don't care if it is then or the next month. But it would be nice to hear from Galazan's. I think it is time for an update with some real answers as to how many guns are going out and when. When once I asked them about rumors I had heard they told me that they do not entertain questions about rumor. Then put out some facts and there will be less rumor.
I can see for many how frustrating it is not to have any idea when their gun will arrive. For many this will be the gun of their dreams. It would be nice to start living the dream and not just dream about it.

Bill G.

Yeti and Bill have about the same disposition on their RBL orders as I do. I even looked into CSM's financial history (at the criticism of some here) before ordering, because I really had no background on them. I ordered with the same thoughts Yeti had in his 3 bullets and now I'd like to see CSM put out some updated information on how the RBL program is going, not necessarily my specific gun's schedule. I've never been one to shake or tear the corners of the wraps onmy Christmas presents before the appointed day, but I'm anxious to be informed on how it's going.

serial number "RBL 68" was delivered to and reported by Doug Lewis over on SSM. He seems very pleased so far. Though I do not believe he shot it, and he admits to purchasing it with the intention of selling at a profit, so (if he were smart anyway) he wouldn't want to report any negatives.

At any rate it looks very good.

Here is a link to a few pictures

First,I've not thrown my hat (or wallet as it were) in the ring for an RBL. Does anyone have stats on how many of these "guns to be" were ordered? At less than 100 per year some of your grandkids may be getting their inherited RBL's directly from galazans. Lets say for sake of argument there were only 1000 orders(seems unlikely with all the hoopla). Given that the guns are made in batches by configuration, it could be a decade before those eary ordered double trigger, straight grip guns show up. If I'd payed in full on an RBL I'd be fuming at the lack of communication and progress.

Hoping I'm wrong,
Michael

Ha anyone seen any double trigger guns?

Seems to me that the folks who haven't ordered and are making the I'd be fuming or I'd be mad war cries are stirring the pot. Got nothing better to do than stir and stir. Pitiful existence.

Truth of the matter is CSMC is shipping RBL's. There was a good possibility that I could have taken my RBL to Sandanona last weekend. I asked CSMC to delay shipping until September 25th because my FFL holder was on vacation. Got the phone call on Thurdsay the 14th that the gun was ready to go.

Right on, sebrown. Some guys have to drag other people down. They can't stand to see someone do something cool.

I think what CSMC is doing is great and it takes an enormous amount of guts.

Tony is building some of the finest guns ever made in America. I wish him luck and I hope he does well with them.

And so what if you have to wait a year? That's like 2 days in gunmaker/gunsmith time.

Patience people, patience. Good things take time.

OWD

I received a message from a guy who also received his gun this week.

So they do appear to be coming out at a quicker rate. Hopefully many will get hunted with this year.

(by the way it was 14 1/4 stock, PG, BT, 1 trigger exhibition Claro. He says that it exceeds his expectations, and was worth the wait.

#68 was just delivered?

If that was not a requested s/n, delivery would appear to be very slow.

I wonder when they will deliver s/n 30,000...... :p

Even if they delivered 100 guns this year I think that they are delivering very slow. I spoke to Famars at the Vintagers last week and they said that they deliver about 150 guns a year and that is for bespoke guns. What did Galazan's figure that they would deliver in the first year on a production gun? They must have had some idea of how many they could produce. The silence form them is defening. It is high time they gave us something to bank on.

Bill G.

Page 91 in the new SSM. It does say Launch Edition. But it is the same ad they have always had. What does that mean?

Good to see the RBL's success, but this is no McKay Brown gun and I'd be hacked to wait much over a year. I'm afraid that you chaps that have guns serial numbered in the high hundreds, will have another year + - at this rate.

I ordered in December 2005. I'll be satisfied if I have it September 15 of 2007. I bought a 28 ga. OU to tide me over this season.

If the RBL's went out of business tomorrow, how many of you would put yours in hand on the auction block that very same day - Hmmmmm?

Most of us would just be out the $ But the other 68 people would make a mint ....The RBL by CSMC, One of the rarest American Doubles ever, what a sales pitch !!!

Since CSMC is holding $2-3 million plus of our pre-paid money, I think they have a fuduciary responsibility to provide more information on a regular basis.

If it weren't for the prepaid aspect, they would be within their rights to not provide any info on their production. Having already taken money from hundreds of people,it seems they should be more communicative.

I know that Tony has a great reputation for his guns. But I am wondering, if he stops making them, will there be parts for repairs down the road? I'd hate to be someone who bought one and end up like one of the 349 people who bought a Ruger trap gun.

Gee....and I thought I just read today that the American public is now becoming significantly more optimistic on everything. You nay-sayers are just a bummer! I guess I just prefer to look at those half full glasses and I am more than prepared to take full accountability and responsibility for my part if it turns out to be half empty. What a bunch of whiners!

I went to the CSMC plant last week and spent the afternoon in their gunroom with Lou. They have 3 RBL's in the gunroom and they exceeded my expectations. I ordered mine in Dec. '05 and was told that I will probably get mine in Jan. or Feb.. They even took us back into the plant and showed us their machinery (I am no machinist but was impressed). The wood for the RBL's really exceeded my expectations. Lou did say that they are now shipping out 50 RBL's/week and it sounded like that will be the most per week that they are able to produce. Mine will be Ex. English wood, CC, 14 1/4", single trigger, straight grip, splinter. They would not say how many RBL orders they have as of now. The friend that I went with ordered one last week and was told that the wait would be about 2 years. The wait for my RBL will definately be worth the wait!!

Gee .... Bob. That would also put them in the same boat as the thousands of us who own unique, hand made guns from the UK, Germany, etc. A quality gun maker can build almost any part to repair one of these guns. I have no doubt they will handle an RBL just as effectively 5-10-or 50 years from now. What I find most amusing is reading the ever more obsessive criticism from those who did not or will not order an RBL. You certainly need not worry about justifying such a decision to those of us who did. I think I'll stop reading RBL threads and simply enjoy a nicely made, American, 20 bore SxS. All the best, Joe

Bob, I don't think it's a case of whiners as much as customers expecting promises to be kept and being kept informed of any departures from the norm, standard business practises. We don't need to look far to see the consequences of manufacturers who were cavalier in meeting those responsibilities---and the manufacturers who took their places.

You guys have problems huh, just think of all the knuckleheads that went out and bought a Ruger Gold Label just a day or two before the RBL was announced!!

WOW! 50 guns per week, that's 2600 guns a year, a two+ year back log, an average of $3000.00 per gun, equals almost 16 MILLION in sales. If only a third of the orders were paid in full and the rest only the $1,000.00 deposit that is a 9 MILLION Dollar interest free loan to fund you business ventur. If I had that kind of back log I'd be doing all in my power to keep current customers happy so that I did not loose the tigers tail. A little PR would go a long way.

Bill G.

It has amazed me to learn how many RBL customers don't seem to have another shotgun to shoot while they wait. I just spent my RBL money today, for about the twenty first time. Oh, well. At least I'll have something to shoot while waiting for the RBL.

21 times?

Gee.....Bob,
Yeah, what amazing whiners the rest of us customers are who don't seem to have another gun to shoot !
21 times $2,500 = $1,102,500.
Now, that is amazing.

Gee.....Joe. What I find most amusing is reading the blind acceptance of the non-communication. mig0621 heard 50 guns/week. Which week? Last one we heard about here was #68 and there's been a lot of weeks since April when production was going to start according to the propaganda.Oh yeah, you stopped reading RBL threads.

wow, I think you might have goofed on your math. all of my calculators say 2500x21 is $52,500, nothign close to the amazing number you posted.

-Scott

That's right Scotts_4x. Nothign close. Still, an amazing figure

8b, I don't think the new guys are buyin' it.
Do you?
Us olden guys just sit at our keyboards and say, oh wow man!

I've never heard of a start-up venture that went exactly according to the plan. When I ordered my RBL, I considered that I was assuming some measure of risk. I did my home work and then paid my money. Because I did some prior planning, I'm still well within my comfort zone. If CSMC goes belly up, you won't hear me whining because I'm the one that's responsible for my dollars, not CSMC. For may folks its always easier to blame someone else for your own, self made, problems. Sounds like some of the whiners did the opposite (money first, homework later) and somehow I get the feeling that some of the loudest whining is coming from guys who have yet to put any money down.

You did some prior planning and the rest of us not in our comfort zone have yet to put any money down. Simple isn't it? Like figuring 21 X $2,500= $1,102,500.

I to understand that start up's sometimes have a few bumbs in the road. I don't mind the wait. I really think Tony is making big a mistake not communicating with the people that are financing his new business venture. (US!)
In Vegas, Tony told me he expected to sell 200 or so guns a year. At that time he told me he had sold "in the Thousands, and not 2000". He told me he had to buy another expensive (So many million$ machine) I think it is great... but I am mad that he hasn't communicated with his customers.... Not the way I thought he would do business. All he needs to do is tell everyone what is happening, no need to promise specific guns, just a general and frequent update of what is going on.

Still waiting for my prepaid RBL

Jerry

2000 X $3000 average = 6,000,000 Not bad for start up money by Vegas show time last year.

Jerry

See,now that is dangerously close to whinning and I hope we can all quit that before the true loyal fans who know how to plan ahead get offended by your suggestions.

Everyone has a different comfort zone. I'm not at all offended by whining......I just find it so unbecoming!

A lot of money, yes, but did you guys figure the cost of the machinery Tony has to buy. The labor of ? workers. Just remember that good things are worth waiting for.

You mean the guys who have actually been using their guns and who most likely could sell their (real) guns at a profit today.

Sounds awful.

I realize that alot of you are anxious to get your guns and some are worried that they may never get one. If I had ordered one I would probably feel the same way. But if you think about it, the timing so far isn't that out of line. Kind of reminds me of the guy who buys stock and checks the prices every 10 minutes. My suggestion is ; stop thinking about it so much!
BTW: I didn't order one because I HATE choke tubes and I've got enough 20s. Fixed chokes and 16ga would probably change my mind.

The RGL is not even in the same league as the RBL, the LOP is to long the wood to metal fit is lousy, plain jane wood and for $500 more I could of had an RBL that was built according to my spec, LOP, DAC, DAH, beautiful figured wood, No Erik I wish I could get that one back.
All the best

Superlight is still having trouble with his calculator. Four times 52,000 is a million one????

RBL #68

I did intend to sell the RBL when I ordered it. After seeing and handling the gun, I have changed my mind. I think this gun is an exceptional value and I'm darn glad I ordered it.

The wood is really nice. The gun went together smoothly. The metal-wood fit is flawless. The case colors are attractive. It has a good "bird gun" feel to it.

Do I think it compares to the Fox I ordered? No. But it is less than 1/3 the price and it's far from being 1/3 the gun.

Eightbore,
Forget about my calculator. Did you really spend 21 times the rbl cost on other guns while waiting for it? Are you really amazed some of us don't have another gun to shoot while waiting?

Call my post whinning of you like, I did say I understand the delay in sending out a new product... I don't understand the LACK OF COMMUNICATION!

I dont have a problem with the wait, while Tony ramps up... Just the lack of communication.

Is that really whinning? It is not the why I run my business.

Jerry

Jerry,
I don't think that's whining. I think Tony could take a huge step forward by creating a mailing list of all purchasers and sending out updates. It seems like the isolation is what's bothering a lot of buyers. Tony's losing a lot of goodwill and that's hard to get back although a great gun could help!

The lack of cummunication is the whole issue. Tony has flushed all the good will he had at the beginning of the RBL offer.

I fully expected some start-up glitches. I just passed the one year mark for ordering my paid in full order. Never did I expect when I ordered my gun the first week of the offer that I would be waiting over a year for delivery. I would like to think of myself a fairly patient man and I am as long as I'm cummunicated with and kept informed of the situation.

There hasn't been an up-date on the RBL web site since May. Guns started being delivered in July and the highest serial # I know of is 68, "that's a far cry from fifty a week"There has been some issues with the delivered guns such as engraving different from what was advertised. I called CSMC about the engraving and posted here about it. There has still been no word from Tony about the engraving/production issues or anything else since May.

All I ask for is a current update with a statement from Tony about the truthful production status of the guns.

I guess I fit the whinner definition. I've spent my money and I want to be informed of how things are going with my money and I'm tired of calling Carol and bothering her just to get the company brush off line!

Then cancel your order.

If you're unhappy with the communication or lack of delivery then cancel your order.

Don't expect CSMC to publish it production numbers. If you ask for the number don't be surprised if CSMC declines your request. Bankers, financers, and prime stockholder are entitled to that information.

I agree that another update on the RBL would a good thing. It's no secret that most think production is behind schedule. It appears that Septembers 2005 orders are being filled in Sept 2006 timeframe.

I have in hand RBL 74. Picked it up Thursday. Shot if Friday. Will return it Monday: mainspring broke or came loose, anyway there is no spring tension on the top lever. If you want I'll post some pics and give you my opinions.

Dear god, sebrown. In 65 years of shooting I've never had a failure in all those jabcs, the first of many American models and a dozen of the great old American doubles, a Sauer and Francotte---not one. A return on No. 74---unbelievable.

King: you rather enjoy taking a shot at American-Anything every chance you get. Well, how many Canadian guns you ever shoot?

Sebrown: I feel for you. I bought a special engraved pattern custom order Merkel 280 SL when they first came out. waited over a year and then it had crappy wood, poor checkering, and pigeons instead of quail. It went back to Germany, and ANOTHER YEAR WENT BY. I feel your pain. but this last dove opener I shot that little 280 and it was worth the wait and grief, just will not do it again.

Jameister

I think we have heard reports from fewer than ten RBL owners. at least 4 have had to go back for repairs.

If these were Gold Labels all we would hear about was what junk they are and how Ruger just can't figure out how to make a decent shotgun. Why do you guys give CSMC a pass on obvious production issues?

FWIW I am sure they will eventually get it all figured out, But eventually could be a very long time.

Just who are the financers of the RBL operation if it is not the people who showed faith in Galazan and (it appears) collectively put up the millions of dollars to get the ball rolling?

oops

oops double post

Good point Eric, we would never hear the end of it if these problems affected the Gold Label!
all the best