I don't care for them myself, because they look fugly to me and don't feel right in the hand. No doubt they're better for clays and possibly in the field, but I still refuse to buy one even though I've come upon a couple of great deals.

Can anyone say truthfully they can shoot a double better than a O/U? I don't know that I can't, because it's been 44 years or so since I shot one. But the pros shoot them exclusively.

I've never seen a beautiful O/U although i'm sure they exist. So what's wrong with my taste?

Check out Woodward, Boss or Fabbri over and unders. You might change your mind!

God set our eyes horizontal; not verticle. I own a couple, but can't the get hang of shooting it turned sideways.

I'd have to agree with Buzz there Gene, at least on the first two he mentioned
I didn't start shotguns much till I moved over here from Somerset , England, 25 years ago.
But my memories were of farmers shooting sxs s, with the lovely waxed paper cases, they looked like jewels to my young eye!
I lived in Co Clare , Ireland for a few years before here, n shot rabbits with my mates sxs, the few guhs I saw there were sxss, the odd autoloader\.
Started shooting over here with the standard beretta 686 o/u.
But remembered my roots, n have done the small bit of shooting I do with an older sxs since then.
I guess I find an older sxs just,,just beautiful is the word, I guess,...and with hammers n jones U/L (not o/u ), even more so
franc

ALL shotguns can be beautiful
You do not have to dislike one just because you like one.
Mike

I find the smallbore side by sides to be beautiful! Much better looking than over/unders and i can shoot better with side by sides. Bobby

All us old boots luv our SXS but surprise, surprise--a stackbarrel IS a double-barreled gun. There are members who'd like to "grandfather" the Remmy17/Ithaca 37 into the DoubleGunShop "Pantheon" despite a pronounced lack of adequate barrelage, so you'd think there'd be a few tolerant fellers not given to looking askance thru their pince-nez at a perfectly adequate doublegun with a full complement of barrels (2). As for complementing my entirely respectable if somewhat quotidien shooting ability, I find a Winny model 12 superior to either. Despite this lapsarian peculiarity, I am at least not trying to sell one here.

jack

Even the Brits are giving into the OUs these days - they are widely used now for driven shooting. While I will always have a weak spot for sxs, the most impressive gun I have ever handled was a Hartmann & Weiss 28 ga OU with 30" barrels - anyone inclined to question the aesthetic qualities of OUs needs to handle one of those first.

I can't say I mind looking at some over/unders, I just don't like shooting them for some reason. I never got one to fit me quite like a SXS. I had a few o/u's but got rid of them. But I also have 4 model 12's and don't care for them either.

I shoot a 20ga o/u better than any other shotgun. I'm not as keen on the looks of a 12ga o/u nor do I shoot one as well as the little 20.

It is called personal preference. There are a lot of reasons, probably different for each of us. Ilike all shotguns, but SXS's most.

I shoot, or have shot, all types of shotguns, SxSs and pumps being my favorite, but the truth is I shoot my 20 gauge O/U better than any of them.

I like SXS's best and always have,I also like pumps. If I ever bought an O/U it'd at least have to have dual triggers (like the old Marlins).
Steve

I find them equally attractive and your question akin to asking whether blondes, brunettes or redheads are most delightful to handle. Sort of depends on the model. My gun cabinet shows I like both equally well. Parker 20 VHE is my go to hunting gun, a premium grade 20ga B.Rizzini my sporting clays gun. They sort of represent the most gun I am willing to pay for - anything more expensive wouldn't go afield so would be of no use to me. Clearly have a prejudice toward 6lb guns and I don't like the looks of 12ga barrels, too wide. I don't shoot pumps or autos well, just seems too much weight forward for my taste.

On the few occasions I've shot an O/U in any volume I've done quite well with it and enjoyed the day. It may have even performed better than my SXS, I dunno. But, it was a tool lacking any emotional attachment for me. Almost all my SXS guns stretch back to the early 1900's or earlier and there is an instant bond with that piece of metal and wood. It's character, history, craftsmanship that pulls me to them. To realize that the first buyer of my gun could have easily witnessed all the history of the mid-1800's is a mighty magnet to me. I love to hold one in the evenings and ponder just where it has been and who might have owned it. I love to follow the lines that were made by a craftsman carefully filing it--no computerized machines here. I love to see the old photos of the workmen standing by their bench wearing soiled aprons. I guess I'm a historyholic and always will be. Which shoots best? Frankly, thinking about it, I don't give a damn. I'll always carry my beloved relics of another age.....one that I sorely miss. I've sorta become a relic myself.

My favorite hammergun is a plain W&C Scott from 1870, probably made for the American market. I can't hold it without thinking it was around a half dozen years before the first white man determined to settle in my home country--the Texas Panhandle. Custer was still romping around chasing bad injuns. Robert E. Lee was a tired old man still presiding over Washington College in Virginia. The huge buffalo herds still roamed the Great Plains. Birds in incredible numbers still covered our skies. All this comes back to me as I hold the gun. This example is why I shoot a SXS--it's so much more than a tool.

Here is a nice over/under, a old blued framed Ruger with its original box!


http://buy.auctionarms.com/10423800/ruger-near-nib-factory-employee-20-ga-red-label

That's very admirable, but don't be bullheaded about it.

I like most types of shotguns and among them prefer some more than others. I prefer "nice" (my preference) SXSs over them all, except I hold a special fondness for my late Dad's Ithaca 37 20ga pump, the gun I'll probably own last if I ever start planning for the future with earnest. The question of why we like a particular gun or type, can for all of us I am sure, be answered to our own satisfaction with only a short pause for thought. Why someone must (really) dislike anyone else's shotgun - well for that answer they may need a psychiatrist.

While I have been primarily a side-by-side guy, I like most shotguns, except bolt actions. Got Browning Superposeds, Ruger Red Labels and a Remington Model 3200 in the over/under variety. Pump guns in the Winchester Model 12/42 and Remington Model 31 flavors (want more 31s). Single barrels in the Fox, Royal and H & R flavors. Long recoil autoloaders in the Remington and Browning brands. Floating chamber autoloaders in the Winchester brand. And, keep it quiet guys, but last week I even shot two rounds of skeet with an Italian gas operated semi-auto!! I did win that gun, didn't part with any real money for it.

Ditto Joe Wood, he summed up my feelings about SXS's perfectly.
Don, your right of course, I would consider purchasing a single trigger gun, assuming both barrels were choked the same and I wasn't going to get either of the chokes opened up.
Steve

That is a strange assumption. What is the basis for that?

Don,
I like dual triggers, because except for tiny number of exceptions, when you pull the front trigger you get the opened choked barrel, the rear trigger gives you the fuller choked barrel. You can take any double trigger gun you have out hunting and, during the heat of the moment, you don't have to give a thought about which barrel to select. Now if both barrels were choked the same it wouldn't matter now, would it.
Steve
PS lets not hi-jack this thread anymore than we already have.

I was into this double gun thing for quite a while before I finally felt I needed an over under for NSSA skeet. I had been shooting Winchester pumps, but wanted to keep up with my competition. Now I have a baggo over unders, some of them with double triggers. There is nothing nicer, at the price point, than a Beretta S3 with double triggers and solid rib, or a prewar Superposed, equipped the same way. Finding such treasures is a bit of a search, but well worth it.

There was a previous thread regarding pointing quality of shotguns. We called this 'pointability'.....a word which does not exist in Webster's dictionary. I am going to, in humble fashion, try and reiterate some of that. I think the conclusion was that over and unders seem more effective in wide open backgrounds such as dove shooting and in those clay target disciplines where the shooter has some idea as to where the target is coming from and where it is going, such as skeet or trap.I like to call this 'precision' shooting. Now, as first pointed out by the great English guru and writer/engineer, G.T. Garwood (Gough Thomas), in a woods or poor background and where the shooter has no idea of where the target is coming from or going, such as Ruffed Grouse shooting, a side by side has superior pointing quality. I for one, believe this to be the case having much experience in all venues of shotgun shooting precision and 'spray and pray' (Tom Huggler has used this term).
. I personally like and use both sorts of shotguns. I really prefer those of sidelock origin because they 'are closer between the hands' and just have a superior feel and quality about them. Regards, Buzz

I don't like the idea of sighting with one barrel under the other. I want them side by side. An O/U barrel would fit the barrel slots in my gun cabinet but you won't find an O/U there.

My first shotgun was an Elsie. I hunted with her from the time I was 15 until I could afford a stack barrel gun, sometime in my twenties.

Two things about that little Browning that sent me back to SxSs was the lack of the second trigger AND the discomfort of carrying her from cover patch to cover patch.

Stack barrels do not ride in the crook of my arm or across the top of my shoulder as comfortably as a SxS.

As I grew older and could afford more guns, the slab side of an O/U action became quite homely to my eye.

To this day those are still the reasons that the only O/V in my safes is that Browning.

I like pumps, SxS, O/Us and autos and have more of each than I need--just ask my wife. I picked up this 20 gauge DU Banquet gun NIB at a reasonable price from the raffle winner and cured the single trigger flaw with double triggers by Cole Gunsmithing. The gun comes with screw in chokes, weighs 6 lbs with 28" bbls. and is a fun,versatile gun to shoot. All of my guns shoot better than I can. As far as heritage or history, the company has been making firearms for 500 years.

Hi GLS:

That is a nice looking Beretta!

Now to call Coles to see if they can add a double trigger to my S.P.! LOL

Franchi

If you decide to have Coles install DT's take the option to keep your ST assembly. You can get a nice amount of cash for it on eBay
to offset your outlay for the DT's.

Hey Jack, these fun turns of phrase sent me to the dictionary -- good exercise for my old, leaky brain.

Jay

Most O/U's look like a "poisoned pub who has laid in the sun too long" -- Elmer Keith

I've only owned SxSs my entire life. The first O/U I ever got to shoot was a Citori and that poisoned my mind against O/Us. I managed to fire 4 rounds before returning the gun to its owner and later that day, to be polite, shot two more. I have never touched a Citori again.

Now maybe if my first O/U experience had been with a Boss or a Rizzini RBEL...who knows?

The low-end Beretta model 68Xs aren't as ugly or as clunky as the Citori.

But the damage was done and I'm still happy with my SxSs.

I know this is a sxs versus o/u thread, but just one quick post about triggers. I have a Laurona with double single triggers, and I can't understand why it isn't THE trigger for all double guns.
CHAZ

Never fired one but have heard about them - they sound intriguing but it sounds sort of like a very clever invention that really isn't needed.

I am doubly admirable and only half bullheaded. I have a really nice Super "twin-single" and an equally nice Merkel 200e. Both have dual controls. Also have a Sauer 66 that I got from Daryl H. here and a salt-era Diana Super and old Browning GTI war club which is my goto and ligament stretcher; all single trigger. I had a Browning 425SC and I shot it well but it was the only ovah-unda I've had the looks of which I could not abide. I sold it and lost money on the Seminole chokes which went with it. I also sold a Beretta Silver Snipe which I liked but couldn't hit anything with. Also gone is a 20 ga. Citori Superlight from the 80s. I couldn't shoot it either but I sure liked the looks of the little thing. I also had a very ancient Superposed skeeter from the thirties and I sold it. Just slight regrets there. Anda anda anda. No, that's all of em.

jack

Toby Leeds took my 20-g 686 and did to the stock what Beretta should have done.

He did a hell of a good job.

Nice work. Ask him to put some leather on the pad.

Really nice - the straight grain at the wrist is very impressive and the way it becomes so highly figured towards the butt is really nice.

Impressive gun! Thank you for sharing the pix.

Not as nice as GJZ's, but this is Cole's "field grade" wood on my 20 O/U with the double trigger upgrade.
It replaced Beretta's Louisville Slugger grade wood.

Too bad Elmer got old and died on us. That old man forgot more than we will ever know, he was the best.

While I agree with Joe Wood about enjoying the aura surrounding the old S x Ss, I can get an equal amount of pleasure out of a fine looking and handling O/U. Sure, there was no history in the box with my new Beretta 687 SP II Sporting 20 gauge when I bought it in '03, and very little accompanying my two used Perazzi MX-8 comp guns, for sporting. But, I'm of the apparent "super-minority" here who can really enjoy a double gun with superposed barrels.

Old doubles with a history are great, but I am creating history for my O/Us and my latter day manufactured S x Ss every time I take them to a sporting tournament and win, or place. And, I'm well along in creating a history for the 687 SP II on the bird field. Two trips to Cordoba shooting it exclusively, and eight dove seasons under the belt with it here has compiled some great memories, and bird counts, in my hunting journal.

The guns I buy new, however their (two) barrels are configured, will have a history just as meaningful to my grandsons, and hopefully great-grandsons, as any of my Foxes, L. C. Smiths or English doubles have for me. I've a sneaking feeling that they won't care one whit how the barrels are joined.

History is fun to think about, in the duck blind and in the field, but it's a WHOLE LOT more fun to make yourself! JMHO.

SRH

Although I've owned a few o/u's, I'm not keen on how deep their receivers are from a handling standpoint. The shallow receivers of sxs's fit my hands so much better, and feel great when walking in the field, in the crook of my arm. And they shoot great too.

If one's eyes are prone to crossfire--that is, for the off eye to pick up the barrel profile and become temporarily dominant, then the O/U would seem to be a liability in that there is more for it to focally latch onto. The SxS, from the side is a single barrel profile...just a thought...Steve

RB...Nice S3

RB, that's the gun I was referring to in my post. Wonderful gun and picture. My SO has a vent rib, but I accept it as "good enough". My favorite old Supers mostly have solid ribs and some have double triggers.

Gape is too big when in my duck boat.

Thanks, KDG J and eightbore. I tolerate it even though it is not a SxS. It helps that it has an extra set of barrels, too.

The argument boils down to "different horses for different courses". O/U dominates SxS in trap and skeet games while an English SxS sure feels nice when out for quail. Likewise, goose hunting on the coast during a storm favors (IMHO) a synthetic stocked auto.

I am fortunate that my wife understands my addiction and allows me to have appropriate tools for the job at hand.

Synthetic stocked autoloading waterfowl guns sell for several times what my Parker and Fox beater duck guns cost me. I will continue to use them as long as they show no sign of damage from the steel shot I use in them. So far so good.

For me it depends on the gun; I do have a Merkel 301E built in 1964 which is a really nice gun, only when shooting it it feels like the gun is working against me, at the opposite, my FN Special Chasse B25 is very pointalbe and fast reacting, as is my side by side Verrees& Oste in cal 20.

The last itme this moronic topic arose I felt compelled to comment at length. Except for coule quickies I'll refrain from that this time. I'd suggest that the "carry-ability" of a gun is so important that Rocketman should explore a machine to quantify that along with the equally important "MOI". And that whole concept or WTF you you categorize it of differing "point-ability" is so lame as to beggar imagining. Suggesting that the mere arrangement of a double gun's barrels can detectably differentiate a gun's dynamics has to rank right up there near the top of Old Wives' Gun Tales. I mean, I've heard some incredible contradictions to the generally accepted laws of the physical universe as we currently know them from other sources but this one is right there with them.

This would all be wonderfully amusing if I didn't think that some of you are serious. hahahaha

have a day
Dr.WtS

"Moronic?" I am grateful that you're "amused" but surprised you wasted your time responding.

I like a sxs more for two reasons.
1. Every O/U I've ever handled felt heavy in my hands and carried heavier than a sxs of equal weight. Don't know why, but it just did.

2. The view down the barrels of a sxs pleases me and, more importantly, provides me a "table" upon which to place the target. If I let my thumb and ring/pinky fingers wrap around the barrels a bit, I even cup the target. (I'm going back and forth about which fore-end grip to use, but that's another story.) In other words, I like the picture I see sighting an sxs far more than the one I see sighting a O/U. Liking the sxs picture more, I feel I shoot better and, since I'm in a pleased and confident sense of mind I'm thereby more confident and therefore shoot better because I'm more confident.

And those are all the reasons anyone needs to justify any preference, I suppose.

As to the feel of history when picking up a sxs, I agree. it exists, and it's worth indulging. I have a slightly different feel with my Simson, b/c I have fired every round that went down that gun's barrels since it left the factory. With it, I hunted ducks with lead shot back when that was still legal. I've hunted all sorts of northeastern small game with it (never any quail in my neighborhood), with more or less success (mostly less). It's been a loyal friend and companion in hot, dusty cornfields, dew-covered grassy hummocks full of rabbits, and snowy grouse woods, brier tangles and fencerows, and the close alder, birch and pine mess of hunting snowshoe hare. Everyone who's seen it has admired it (even when they make a little fun of the basketweave Euro sling) and I get a little reflected glory for having made a good choice.

In terms of double gun ownership folks with vertical guns far outnumber those with horizontal ones. I found SxS with single nonselective mechanical trigger and same choke in both barrels. I like it as much as any O/U in its price range. I suspect balance on the hinge pin long barrels and ease of use is why I shoot it almost exclusively now. Very easy to use even with thicker gloves.

Tough call, but if I really had to choose one for everything it would be an O/U.

Except when its one of these:

Pride and joy

Nice stick. Regia from Turkey?

the above is a long awaited 28 bore from Purdey with a piece of Steve Sidki's Turkish on it

Well this was an aristrocrat I had the honor of putting through its paces this weekend. Stole my heart. Still tight as a drum 90 years later

The barrel placement may be all wrong, but at least it has two triggers...
Steve
Oops, almost forgot, nice wood!

To me it is a matter of aesthetics. I owned three shotguns: a Browning Superposed 12 gauge, a 16 gauge side by made by August Schuller, and a 20 gauge Series I side by made by Vincenzo Bernardelli. The Browning was well made, but it was big and bulky. It was a trap gun and it performed well, but i always enjoyed mounting the side bys. They seemed like they were an extension of my body and they balanced forward of the trigger guard. They were, both, stocked with pistol grips and beavertails. I own an Italian over & under made by Rizzini, but it is a sporting clays model.

I seem to shoot better with a SXS than an O/U so this determines my double gun preference. Also, SXS guns tend to have the double triggers which I prefer.

why, because they are ugly
thats enough for me

Because most of us are romantics at heart. Perhaps we are a tad more eccentric than most. Why else would we prefer cedar canoes, bamboo fly rods, old cars, bipanes, wood burning stoves, wicker chairs, waxed paper hulls, cork decoys, open sights, early African hunting stories, black and white photos, Hoppes #9, history, honesty, poetry, pipe smoke, old wornout clothing, wet dogs, old leather, pawn shops, that first kiss, christmas mornings, grandads.....

little baby ducks.
Old pickup trucks.
Slow moving trains and rain.

Because "some" of us are romantics at heart:

No seat belts, one tail light, shirts with pockets, covered front porches, wood propellers, steam engines, wood stocks, junk yards, V-8's, un-grounded wall plugs, float planes, real ice cream, telephone booths, corner mail boxes, real wood boxes, radial engines, welded steel products, leaded gasoline,.. F/F or F/M fixed chokes.., roll up windows, Chris Craft, ..2.5" 12/16/20's.., clear mornings..............

BBQed pork, bourbon, and beer.