some questions. I have a 12 gauge double. It has a patented date of 1881. It is a H Pieper with Damascus Barrels. What can you tell me of it's worth and collectible value? It is in fine shape, I would not hesitate to shoot it with reduced loads.

Henri Pieper was a large producer of Belgian guns. He is credited with the development of the mono-bloc in some circles. Quality ranged from moderate to very good but he was not a top tier Belgian maker on the order of Masquelier or Francotte. He died circa 1902 and the business was continued under the name Ancien Establissement Pieper , among others, and was eventually absorbed into Fabrique Nationale. My experience is that Pieper guns sell between $300 and 800, depending on original quality and condition. They can certainly be fun shooters.

This is the Pieper Diana, 1881. It is based on his patent for a monobloc.










You can read more about Pieper here:
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pieper%20henri%20gb.htm

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post164088

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post194360

You can read more about him in these books.
Claude Gaier - Cinq Ciècles d'Armurerie Liégeoise, 1997
Maurice Ansiaux - L'Industrie Armurier Liégoise, 1899
Guy Gadissuer - Les Armuriers de Liége en Catalogues (1892-1930), 2007
Guy Gadissuer & Michel Druart - Le Qui est Qui de l'Armurerie Liégeoise 1800-1950, 2004

Pieper was the major share holder in FN.
Fabrique Nationale Oct 15, 1888
Albert Simmonis, Jules Ancion, Dresse-Laloux, M.A.L., Dumoulin Freres, Joseph Janssen, Henri Pieper, Pirlot et Fresart, Credit General Liegeois, Nicolas Vivario, Auguste Francotte, Emil et Leon Nagant

Pieper was a major force in the Belgian gun trade both during his life and afterwards. In addition to his prolific gun trade (including a very early electric gun). He also built the electric power infrastructure in Liege, was active in the early Automotive industry and many other areas.





This is a hybrid car that he invented.



The value of any gun is directly related to its condition. Post some pictures.

Pete

That is the same gun I have!

The picture of the top side of the barrels shows what appears to be rust. It is not. I don't know if it is a reflection from the couch or what.

One more pic.

Probably worth between 6 and 8 hundred bucks with little collector value.

Thanks jOe

I payed $240 for it 10 years ago.

Denny

Denny,

Joe is in the ball park for this gun. All Diana's are not equal. Some, like yours are a field grade. There are some that are highly engraved in either a German or English styles. Also there are few out there that have very special damascus tubes.

This was a major gun for Pieper. He exported it to many countries. Later, after his death, some real clunkers were produced for a time. Eventually that ended as the management of the company changed.

Pete

Would you shoot this gun? The barrels are shiny. Not pitted.

DCA: I'd get a knowledgeable shotgun 'smith to check it out first for "off face", do the barrels ring true, chamber length, (probably 65mm, or 2 1/2"), measure bores to see if they have been honed too much remove pits, stuff like that.
Where would you get your reduced loads? Do you load short shotshells yourself, as I do?
Mike

Not with anything but black powder loads, and only after the barrels have been checked over real good for flaws by someone who knows better.

As has been well documented in the Double gun Journal, shooting 2-3/4 in shells in a 2-1/2 chamber is not a problem. If it were my gun I'd do what I always do in old damascus barreled guns (that are in good shape) and shoot Winchester AA Low Recoil/Low Noise shells in it.
Steve

Rockdoc, despite the DG Journal advocating the use of 2 3/4 shells in 2 1/2" chambers, there are those among us who just prefer not to do that, including myself.
I enjoy loading up 2 1/4" shells from cut-down Federal paper Gold medal hulls, they are so neat.
Mike

And there are those of us that do, or just don't give a damn. I like reloading and shooting black powder, but sometimes it's just a bother. I usually use black powder reloads for hunting and for SXS shoots, for normal practice shooting the Winchester AA LN/LR shells are very low pressure and very convenient. As far as reloading in general, it's just not for me.
Steve

no answer?

Any low pressure 2 & 3/4" ought to work just fine.

I shoot my Diana.

I have had this gun checked out by a very competent gunsmith (Dave Norin), who has OK'd it for shooting.

When I measure the chambers of my Diana, they are 2 1/2". (Actually a bit longer at 2.58".)

I use http://www.rstshells.com/rst_classic_shotshells_shotshells.htm Falcon Ultralites in it.

Pete

The standard/most common European chamber length is 65mm. Converting this to "English" it comes out to 2.559". This is very near to 2 9/16"(2.5625"). 2 5/8"(2.625") converts to 66.675mm in metrics. I believe (though could be proved wrong) the vast majority of British, so called 2½" chambers will in fact measure from 2 9/16" to 2 5/8".

Thanks guys!

I used to reload, I don't anymore. I still have the stuff.