In a previous thread indicating satisfaction with Mike Orlen's work, Franc asked about 'some guy' who had complained - I'm "that guy' with the 'beef' and unfortunately things have not been sorted out with Mr. Orlen.

By way of review for anyone interested, 25 months ago I sent Mr. Orlen a set of Smith Ideal Grade barrels for chamber, choke and rustblue work. I enclosed a check for full payment plus shipping/ins. Having had great work done by Mr. Orlen prior and quickly, after 3 months without the barrels I called and was assured that all was done except the bluing and that would be done soon and barrels shipped in 2 weeks. One more call confirmed the same response. My check was cashed within 1 month of receipt and 5 Certified Mail letters with signed Return Receipts to Mr. Orlen resulted in no communication of any sort.

Earlier this year I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau hoping for some sort of response - the BBB contacted Mr. Orlen 3 times and he chose not to respond to any of their inquiries. I then contacted the MA AG's Office to determine the procedure for filing in Small Claims court - the process would require the retention of an attorney since I do not reside near MA and could not appear for court proceedings. The cost to do that would eventually result in more than the barrels are worth.

I reluctantly post this - I despise the airing of 'dirty laundry' that is so prevelant on the internet, but I note that a previous complaint by a well known engraver on this board, resulted in the return of his barrels from Mr. Orlen. Since I have no other economically feasible recourse, I've elected to post here in answer to the question of whether the issue was resolved.

Perhaps someone in the Amherst area would stop by and pick my barrels up for me? If so, pm me and I'll give you the serial number and happily pay the shipping plus your gas expenses.

I to am not a satisfied costomer of Mike Orlin.
I sent a set of bbls. to be re blued and choke work to be done.
After 6 mos. I called and was told the bbls. would be shipped in a week, this lie was repeated monthly for several mos. Then he would not answer the phone. After a year I sent a registered letter requesting my property be returned, I told him to keep the money just return my property! A couple of phone calls (I used a different phone) and a total of 14 months my bbls. were back! The choke work was done but no blueing was done. I consider myself fortunate that I recieved my bbls. back!

Idler

I find this amazing since I have had a total of three things done, barrel work and stock bending, and he was very professional and very quick. He even shipped the items back before I had made payment.
I would love to hear his story on this.

I find it amazing as well. I've had nothing but excellent results when I've used Orlen for barrel work. I've sent Orlen no less than 10 jobs over the years and only one time did he have my barrels in his shop for longer than a day. I usually had my barrels back at my doorstep within 10 days of sending them out. Sorry to hear of your misfortunes, but I will continue to use Mike and recommend him to anyone needing barrel work done in a timely and professional manner.

Dustin

I also had a barrel choke job done by Mike that was returned very promptly.

Based on that positive experience and that of others, I sent him a set of barrels for choke work and rust blue.

This was near three years ago.

I sent no funds because some dent work needed to be done and I wish to pay him the actual amount he wishes to charge. This seems reasonable, I have no idea the time he needs to invest in the project.

I've contacted him twice, the last time just over a year ago.

Promise was a 10 day turn around each time.

I'm patient. I revere Mike as a barrelsmith. I've resisted posting anything negative here.

These are just the facts.

Apparently, good things take time in Amherst.

The barrels are off a $800 Sterlingworth, so it's no big deal and I have other guns to shoot.

Still.... three years?

When this happens, one has to wonder. Why is it taking this long to get back? Did something bad happen to the barrels? Were they lost, stolen, just plain can't seem to want to do them. Then you wonder, why not answer the poor owner? Why not just say what happened and why they aren't done? I have used Mike and I was very happy with the speed and work. Yet, this story keeps resurfacing and I am sure those that have a problem, it is a serious and very real problem.

Off this very topic and not about Mike. But nearly 10yrs. ago, I sent a pair of barrels to a guy to re-breech them and make into flint barrels. He won't do a thing to answer my ph. calls or my emails. He even avoids me at Friendship. Of course I have long ago now, after all the high blood pressure, just plain gave the barrels and the person up as lost cause.

Mike's done one set of chokes for me and I was very happy. Turn around was two weeks.

The two guys who have posted about an unreasonably slow turn around both were having bluing work done. Perhaps Mike just doesn't like to blue barrels.

I've had Mike do about 25 jobs for me, all quick turnaround and excellent workmanship. A couple of times I've asked him to do other work for me and he has said that he only does choke and barrel work and stock bending. When a smith takes too long on my work, I have it returned and I send it elsewhere. You can't beat Danner gunsmithing in Fayetteville, TN for rust bluing. He has done about five jobs for me. They all seem to cost about $300.

Is there not a complaint process that allows a shooting man to file a complaint with the Government license board for gunsmiths there in the USA that would call into question if this gunsmith should have his license renewed,until this issue is sorted out?

Regards;

No Government licnese board here.

I don't understand why this keeps coming up. Mike has always completed barrel work for me so fast sometimes, that I'm not even ready for it.

I did present him with a terrible job a few years ago where the bottom rib on my Beretta model 410EL sprung loose at the fore end lug and bent up into a series of waves, and he had to straighten it, re-attach it along with the lug itself and the re-blue the result. Mike probably shouldn't have taken the job on. He took a while on that one, but when I recieved it back with a very modest bill for the work done,and an apology for the time it took to 'get to it' the barrels were good as new.

That is just my honest experience with Mr. Moe, and I'll continue to use his services...Geo

Maybe you can put in a good word for me, Geo?

I'd like to believe I'll live long enough to enjoy his excellent work on my old Fox barrels.

I have always had good to very good results from Mike but the only work I have sent him was choke and chamber adjustments. He is good at that and gets it back quickly. I have never asked him about rust bluing but understand that is not his forte.

I try to be less judgmental as I grow older. I will only report the facts. I sent a set of Parker barrels to Mike Orlen a few years ago for rustblue and forcing cone and choke work. About a $400 job altogether. He was very accomodating on the phone, indicated turnaround was not a problem, but after 6 weeks began to avoided my phone messages for the next 6 months. It took 9 months to get the barrels back, and I, too, was plagued with thoughts of whether the barrels had been lost or irreparably damaged. Mike was less than straightforward with me when we did finally talk, saying the barrels were "almost done" when there was another 3 months to go. Against this backdrop, the work, when received, was of excellent quality. I guess I'd rather have good work with a little brain damage than bad work. That's all.

I have never dealt with Mr. Orlen, but have two friends that have used his services -- both several years ago. They report the choke jobs were done quickly and well. The one reblue job took many months, and required numerous phone calls.

He appears to be very quick and capable on chokes; but reblue tasks should be sent elsewhere.

It will be interesting to hear your stories about awaiting of RBL guns from Galazan as well.

Geno, the RBL thing has been discussed on various shotgun BB's. Even some fans of the guns state they did not receive them per CSM's delivery schedule, and were not notified of delays. Some cancelled their orders. However, everyone that paid for an RBL did receive a gun--and there were none that came as late as 3 years.

This is unacceptable and criminal - he should be held accountable. Because some have been fortunate, consider yourself lucky. This is no different than stealing from half your customers and justifying the act by satisfying the other half. He should make full restitution and/or go to jail. This crap has to stop !

The question is if this is how "Andy's Custom Shop" problems started out. Not saying its anywhere near this big a problem now (he is returning the guns/barrels)but it would concern me to send a gun/barrels there.

I've had Mike do a fair amount of work for me over the years.
Always fast and well done but I think that barrel bore work and stock bending are his specialties and he makes no secret of that.
I had him install a recoil pad on a gun once and re-blue the barrels and I don't recall it taking a long time. I sent a gun to Rich Cole once for re-blueing and I thought I'd never get them back. Rust blueing is often done in an outdoor tank because it's quite toxic and it doesn't work in the wintertime so a lot of gunsmiths in the colder states have to wait for warm weather. Even then, it's a nasty job and best done after accumulating a few sets to do all at once. I would expect a long wait for a rust blueing job from anyone. I did send a gun to Mike to have the stock bent and when he didn't return it very soon, I called him and asked what was up. He told me that he didn't believe that particular stock could be bent without breaking and he returned the gun at no cost to me. Not even shipping.
I have always considered him to be very fair and wouldn't hesitate to use him again. I've used him about half a dozen times I would guess.

I don't see where there is any toxic chemicals used for rust bluing. With certain rusting agents you have to wear gloves, but that is for fingerprints, only. It does take longer in the winter months because of the humidity, but that is why you use a rusting box with either a hot plate to keep the water warm or a few light bulbs to help bring the humidity up.

As suggested, give him the work that he does well, chokes.

I don't know. That was roughly the story I got from Coles but it was at least ten years ago and I may have gotten the details a bit mixed up. They do it outdoors and they don't do it in the winter.
They didn't seem all that anxious to do it either and they did say they wait til they have a bunch of them to do.

I asked Mike if he wanted the job.

My initial contact with him about this project included the rust blue part.

I received a price list, which included rust bluing. No other comments were attached to the price list.

This was three years ago, before the delays were reported by others.

A simple "I don't want a rust blue job" would have sufficed.

I've turned down jobs myself. I understand burnout.

The man is not obligated to work for me but a simple phone call would be nice, or even just send the barrels back.

Promises unkept are another matter and unacceptable.

Can't argue with that Mr. Jones. Maybe he needs to hire a customer relations person like Rich Cole has. He could just stay busy in the shop, then and let someone who is a little better at dealing with people, handle the phone. It is a common problem with gunsmiths that I think Rich Cole has solved.

I have no experience with Mike, but I do have a question: Why hasn't he responded to this thread?

Believe it or not, he is the Moderator on Shotgun World under Gunsmitting.

The user list here says he hasn't been on this forum since January, 2009. I think it's safe to assume he doesn't know about this thread.

Sounds like this thread should be posted there, as well.

If Mr. Orlen doesn't really want to blue (or blue a particular set of barrels) or bend stocks (or a particular stock), I'd think the thing to do would be to immmediately return the barrels or stock to the owner. Sounds like it would solve most of his PR issues.

Mike Orlen bent the stock on my Merkel 1620 about 1.5 years ago. He did a fine job, with quick turnaround and was much cheaper than many other stock benders. It was as hassle-free a transaction as is possible.

He's also bent 2 other guns for me since then, with equally good and hassle-free results.

I wouldn't hesitate to use him again.

--shinbone

Yeah, shinbone, I've sent him an awful lot of stuff over the years and have always had great service and product. And I'm no one special--he doesn't know me at all. I'm sure these complaints posted here are legitimate but I just can't join in.

+2. Mr. Orlen has done choke, cone, and hone work on three barrel sets for me and the turnaround time reminded me of Ms. White who fell in love with space flight. They left one day in a relative way and returned the previous nite. Bit hard to ignore Mr. Ken's complaint however, and I doubt if Shotgun and Larry are making this up out of whole cloth.

jack

I was the original poster about my frustration with Mr. Orlen and a failure to communicate regarding a set of LC Smith Ideal grade barrels he had had for nearly 3 years. I had asked for chamber and choke work and rust blue - and after an intitial early exchange of calls, nothing was ever heard again from him. I therefore reluctantly posted on this Board the particulars of my situation.

I am very pleased to report that within a week of my original post, I received an e mail from Mr. orlen along with a picture of my barrels in the white and prepped for bluing and notice that I would receive them shortly. Today the barrels arrived. The bluing is excellent and the choke and chamber work equally so. I can only conclude that someone on this board, reading my post, sent it to Mr. Orlen - whoever you are Thank You.

All is now well that has ended well.

Glad to hear it, any explanation?

Not really - the e mail with the picture just said 'sorry for the delay'.

I finally called Mike last Monday and simply asked for my barrels back.

He sent me a tracking number, and they should be here tomorrow.

The work is done, except for the rust blue part apparently.

Alas.

I've lost all interest in this project and likely will sell the gun.

I'd say 3 years is a bit of a wait, with no explanation.

Kinda reminds me of the tailor with a bunch of half- finished suits hanging in his shop...the customer up and died of old age before the tailor ever got around to finishing the suit. All's well that ends well!

Yeah, and the guy who sent the suit to the tailor seven years ago calls up to asks about the suit and the tailor says it will be ready Tuesday. We won't be sending anything to Orlen in the near future.

I have used him several times for choke opening, forcing cones, stock bending and other work. Had some trouble with an LC Smith that he "bobbed" at my request. (long story but it was a gift from a generous benifactor on the board for my daughter) There was a issue with the rib seperating but I sent it back to him and he fixed it gratus. We want "craftsmen" to work on our guns and we complain when they do not operate like mass producers. I will use him again. JMO.

Three years is a little long even for a craftsman. IMO a little communication goes a long ways towards customer service. I have sent Mike barrel work and they have been exemplary examples of craftsmanship. Return of items varied between 5 days door to door to 3 months for essentially the same type of work.

Boys:

We all want "craftsman" quality with "McDonald's" drive-in window speed. Sometimes that actually happens. Not very often, though, as that is a very, very, very rare combination.

Next, we expect talented craftsmen to have Madison Avenue skill-sets for dealing with the public. Guys, if that were the norm, all the craftsmen would be on Madison Avenue, working for some corporation, filling your brain with "BS" jargon about how great their brand of product and customer service is - and you wouldn't have any craftsmen. They'd be making a hell of a lot more money on Madison Avenue, blowing smoke up your "arse".

How behind schedule do you think Michaelangelo was in painting the Cistine Chapel ceiling? Oh, he probably whipped it out in about three days. Unfortunately, history probably does not record his actual tardiness - at least not that I know of. But, it was years.....

And Mike doesn't like bluing barrels!?! Tell me guys..... do you equally like every aspect of your jobs? Do you jump on each and every aspect with equal enthusiam and promptness? Yeah? Hmmmm! Put your hand on the Bible and repeat that, please..... Um-hum. Just what I thought.

Even the top-brass in major corporations procrastinate on the dreaded "annual performance review". They hate it, and they put it off as long as they can.

Should Mike have done a better job of customer contact? Sure. But, he probably lacks talent in that field.

Should you be able to blue your own barrels? Sure. But, you probably lack talent in that field.

While we're at it, tell me - who among you is remarkably talented in all fields - and not flawed in any area whatsoever????

Craftsmen generally do not enjoy being in the limelight and dealing with the public. They like being left alone to do what they love and do best. That is why, despite their rare talents, they usually never die wealthy. In fact, they usually die over their work bench..... still trying to make a living - doing what they love most.

"Work with your hands; be poor. Work with your brain; be rich." - Stuart Wellington Montegard Drew

Thank God for talented, but flawed, men who, regardless, choose to be craftsmen.

Mike

Well said, Mike.

Rebel did you notice the last post on this thread was January 22, 2011 until you posted on it and brought it to the top?

Gotta wonder about Rebel's motivation, to go digging through all the threads on this site, almost two years worth, and find exactly this thread and to bring it up.

On to the main point, I've used Mr. Orlen's services and been quite satisfied with them and the speed in completion and return. I've recommended him to friends for the work they needed, and they were quite satisfied with them and his speed in completion and return. The price has been right, too.

Rebel's post is the most irrelevant post I have read in months. Don't tell me to respect someone who holds guns hostage for years and if they are some day returned, they are left undone. I have had similar experiences with local supposed craftsmen. The end result is that after a bad experience, you are not welcome in their business. How did this situation become the fault of the customer?

I sent Mike a barrel from a 16 gauge Model 12 earlier this summer. Asked that the ridiculous full choke be opened up to .007. Got the barrel back in 8 days, measured the choke, dead on the nuts .007. Total cost, $45. Probably the 10th barrel job he's done for me, same results. He'll get my barrel work everytime.

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't need to be paying someone the big buck to turn my duck guns into quail guns when I already have more quail guns than I need. Mike Orlen really doesn't do anything that I will ever need to have done.

Maybe its just me...but $45 isn't what most consider the big bucks, especially when considering excellent choke work and shipping back to you. And im just the opposite of you...I have more duck guns than I do quail guns, Hun guns, and chukar guns. And here's something novel....I actually use them!

Then don't retain him and, similarly, don't knock him for the work he does.

I don't knock a particular gunsmith in my area who, while reputed to do excellent custom work for many people, took forever and a day to get around to replacing a broken hammer spring on my Simson. As it was, if I hadn't gone out to find the spring (Merkel USA) and have it shipped directly to the smith and then made a couple pestering calls, I'd probably still be waiting on the gun b/c they were doing absolutely nothing for over a month in the "finding a spring" department. I don't know whether I'll use that smith again, but that experience will be in my mind (and my personal recommendations) for the foreseeable future.

Big 8 - Guess you have never been tempted by a very nice, but ill conceived "tweener" ... maybe a 26" M/F O framed 16ga Parker or similar 20ga Fox or Superposed Superlite, etc., etc. Certainly not duck guns or even decent pheasant guns, but might well work well in grouse woods. I personally use Briley and have no experience with Mike O., but would not disparage his work. I would not alter a prestine high grade gun, but have never hesitated to make a lot of very nice original (Parker VH, M21, Supers, etc.)guns "better" for my purposes.

Where did anyone knock or disparage Mike Orlen's work? Criticisms were solely for his failure in a handful of cases to complete work as repeatedly promised, and failure to respond to followup inquiries. Those who had problems acknowledged the near reverence his many satisfied customers express for him. I intend to use him soon for a simple choke job.

But I'm glad to be forewarned to steer elsewhere for bluing work rather than risk having the experience described here by a few. And the public complaints apparently worked to get the posters' issues resolved pretty quickly.

I agree with eightbore that the post re-opening this thread was needless, the issues long resolved. I'm guessing that poster stumbled across this and didn't notice the thread was old -- else why bring it up now?

Jay

Until Rebel posted on this thread today and brought it to the top it had lain buried since January 2011.

Yup, Dave in Maine, I didn't "knock" or "disparage" this Orlen fellow. End of story. Get a life or reply intelligently. I would be glad to reply to you if you have something to say about irresponsible gunsmiths.

While I have not had recent esperience3 with Mike Orlen, a hunting buddy has in the last year and was happy with both the time and quality of the work.

Until Rebel posted on this thread today and brought it to the top it had lain buried since January 2011.

I think the people complaining in this thread about Mike had legitimate gripes but all the gripes about Mike Orlen in this thread were before January of 2011.

It would appear that Mike has cleaned all this old ugly business up. I don't see anybody posting any fresh complaints.